Qantas Delays/Cancellations

[Flyerqf]

QF15 has just landed in HNL after diverting.

 

[Quickstatus]

QF15 has just landed in HNL after diverting.

FA suggests only a 45 minute ground time but arrival in LAX will be maybe 4.5 hours late


Edit:
actual ground time was 1.5 hours. Q15 will arrive into continental USA gateway at 1030am some 5.25 hours late. It will be difficult to make up time if this aircraft continues on its tag flight across to JFK

 

[Melburnian1]

It is still there at 0234 HNL time, so it will be interesting to see if the 'tag flights' between LAX and JFK (the B744 legs of QF11 and QF12) operate late or are cancelled. The QF website has not been altered to 'cancelled' status for QF11 across the USA. As one AFF member (Flyerqf?) recently informed us, if QF15 runs late it affects not just the transcontinental USA QF legs but also the return QF16 from LAX to BNE, probably QF15 the next day BNE to LAX and the LAX - SYD QF12, although QF94 to MEL usually tries to depart on time irrespective given its tightish turnaround at the Australian end. This member's point was that it is expensive for QF and affects many passengers from this one critical 'cog in the wheel' being unpunctual - not that it can be helped if tonight's diversion was for a medical reason.

If 'cancelled'. presumably seats have to be found for passengers in both directions on AA flights. Is this often difficult, or are there usually sufficient spare seats? A friend who travelled on these flights a while back reported that across the USA QF11 and QF12 were roughly a third full: he thought between 120 and 150 passengers on each. There must be some freight as well (apart from the self-loaders).

I often wonder whether such 'tag flights' are profitable but they are probably an important part of the 'brand QF' in that New York is such an important metropolis, and it is perceived as prestigious by many airlines to fly there. It must also generate a lot of premium fare travel due to its status as a financiers' haven.

 

[Himeno]

If 'cancelled'. presumably seats have to be found for passengers in both directions on AA flights. Is this often difficult, or are there usually sufficient spare seats? A friend who travelled on these flights a while back reported that across the USA QF11 and QF12 were roughly a third full: he thought between 120 and 150 passengers on each. There must be some freight as well (apart from the self-loaders).

AA has up to 13 daily non stops between LAX and JFK on 3 class "A321T" (10F, 20J, 36 "Main Cabin Extra", 36Y) and more options with connections via ORD or DFW.

I often wonder whether such 'tag flights' are profitable but they are probably an important part of the 'brand QF' in that New York is such an important metropolis, and it is perceived as prestigious by many airlines to fly there. It must also generate a lot of premium fare travel due to its status as a financiers' haven.

I took this flight through to JFK back when it was still a single 747 all the way through SYD-JFK as QF107. It was about 40% full for the JFK leg.

If QF15 has a large delay, on a day that another 747 operates to LAX (ie, QF95 or QF11 Tues), would QF pull the aircraft from SYD or MEL to fly to JFK rather then wait for QF15 and any rolling delays it would then have on the JFK and return BNE sectors?

 

[Flyerqf]

AA has up to 13 daily non stops between LAX and JFK on 3 class "A321T" (10F, 20J, 36 "Main Cabin Extra", 36Y) and more options with connections via ORD or DFW.

I took this flight through to JFK back when it was still a single 747 all the way through SYD-JFK as QF107. It was about 40% full for the JFK leg.

If QF15 has a large delay, on a day that another 747 operates to LAX (ie, QF95 or QF11 Tues), would QF pull the aircraft from SYD or MEL to fly to JFK rather then wait for QF15 and any rolling delays it would then have on the JFK and return BNE sectors?

Tues QF11 from SYD often forms the QF11 onwards to JFK.

95 is a later flight from MEL.

 

[N860CR]

Both SYD and MEL aircraft are A380s which don't operate the LAX-JFK sectors. The inbound BNE aircraft must operate the US Domestic leg.

The MEL-LAX-MEL flights are 93 and 94.

 

[jb747]

Both SYD and MEL aircraft are A380s which don't operate the LAX-JFK sectors. The inbound BNE aircraft must operate the US Domestic leg.

The MEL-LAX-MEL flights are 93 and 94.

Not all 11s are 380s.

 

[moa999]

VH-OJU just landed at LAX and still showing to be operating a 4-4.5hr delayed QF11/12

 

[Quickstatus]

And the 94 has landed in SYD for a pitstop. Won't have to change tyres like Ricardo though

 

[Melburnian1]

A388 VH-OQL on the Wednesday 1 June late evening QF94, LAX to MEL was in SYD for its 'pitstop' from 0642 to 0738 hours and should arrive in MEL at about 0855, five minutes short of two hours late. QF93 is expected to depart at 1130 - one might have thought QF could get it away a little earlier - from MEL, two and a quarter hours late, arriving LAX at 084, two hours five minutes behind time.

The B744, VH-OJU, on QF15 that was diverted to HNL yesterday arrived at LAX at 1033, four hours and 33 minutes late, and on Thursday 2 June then departed for JFK at 1312 as QF11, with estimated arrival of 2110, which as moa999 in his extremely dedicated post at 0339 this morning Australian time pointed out is four and a half hours late.

The delayed QF12 is forecast to depart from JFK at 2230 - which seems very optimistic, as it assumes an 80 minute turnaround - and arrive LAX at 0050 hours on Friday 3 June.

The QF website shows the Thursday 2 June QF12, QF16 and QF94 as departing on time, which for at least the BNE flight and probably the SYD-bound one as well must be wrong.

 

[coriander]

-- Deleted -- error corrected.

 

[Quickstatus]

I wonder if another option for QF94 in situations like this, is to wait at LAX and aim to get into MEL at 0900. It seems that fog events are generally short lived and would be burnt off by the warming of sunrise.

In the past airlines have delayed departure due to tailwinds and weather at destination.
This would not benefit those whose final destination is actually the alternate airport used for the diversion.

Of course the weather event could lift before its scheduled arrival.

Fly out and if lucky arrive on time, if not splash and dash. Or sit at LAX and depart 2 hours later and crystallise the delay.

Additionally the diversion of QF15 (medical emergency according to Qantassource) has meant that it will arrive into JFK as QF11 at 2100 hrs or so with the return to LAX arriving after midnight.

 

[Melburnian1]

I wonder if another option for QF94 in situations like this, is to wait at LAX and aim to get into MEL at 0900. It seems that fog events are generally short lived and would be burnt off by the warming of sunrise.

Having one day some years ago been delayed for six plus hours at MEL due to fog, unfortunately I don't believe that it always clears by 0900.

Due to the Friday 3 June fog in MEL, QF2051, the 0815 hours across Bass Strait to DPO was cancelled, as was QF2078, the 0825 hours to sunny MQL.

 

[Himeno]

Both SYD and MEL aircraft are A380s which don't operate the LAX-JFK sectors. The inbound BNE aircraft must operate the US Domestic leg.

The MEL-LAX-MEL flights are 93 and 94.

QF11/12 is a 747 on Tuesdays (allowing the A380 to be used on SYD-DFW and make QF7/8 daily). The twice weekly second MEL-LAX flight, QF95/96 is a 747.

 

[Melburnian1]

QF416, the 0830 MEL - SYD on Friday 3 June has been altered to depart at about 0920 hours due to the fog.

QF2281, the 0900 MEL - LST and QF418, the identically timed departure to SYD have been cancelled while QF814, the 0900 to CBR will depart at least an hour late. The 0930 hours MEL to SYD, QF420, will be similarly late.

QF424, QF426 and QF434, the 1030, 1100 and 1400 hours departures ex MEL north to SYD have also been cancelled. So has the later QF848, the 1145 to CBR ex MEL.

The early afternoon 1240 MEL to BNE (QF644) will not run.

QF409, the 0700 hours SYD to MEL (A332 VH-EBN) was airborne at 0939 and is about 95 minutes late with an expected arrival time of roughly 1010 hours. (Originally this was shown as '75 minutes late.')

QF407, the 0715 hours SYD to MEL took off at 0849 and with luck should be in MEL at approximately 1005, 75 minutes late. VH-XZE is the B738.

The following QF411 (B738 VH-XZM) is about 62 minutes late with a probable arrival time around the 1007 mark. QF415, the 0800 SYD to MEL took off at 0907 and with B738 VH-VXC should be in MEL at roughly 1030, 55 minutes late.

The first of the morning ex BNE to MEL, QF605, was not airborne until 0739 and hence VH-XZF, a ubiquitous B738 is likely to arrive at about 0952, 87 minutes late compared with the timetabled 0925 hours arrival.

QF416, the 0830 MEL - SYD took off at 0953 and with B738 VH-VXR as its aircraft should arrive in SYD at around 1056, 51 minutes late.

In the past on foggy days in MEL these predicted delays have tended to be underestimates of what occurs in practice due to the inevitable bankup of flights seeking arrival and departure clearance. On one occasion I was on a flight that eventually departed six hours late.

 

[Melburnian1]

Showing how fog typically sees delays continuing into an afternoon, QF420, the 0930 hours MEL to SYD was airborne at 1106 on Friday 3 June and should arrive at roughly 1221, 86 minutes late with A332 VH-EBN. So from its southbound QF409 leg this morning and this northbound one, it has gained the sum total of nine minutes or so on what was earlier a 95 minute deficit. However layover times may be a bit more generous during the middle of the day in line with the lesser demand for seats during non peak hours.

QF880, the 0920 hours mid morning MEL to OOL took off at 1100 and should be in the Gold Coast at approximately 1251, 86 minutes late. Plane is VH-XZE, a B738.

QF422 (A332 VH-EBF), the 1000 departure from MEL is similarly afflicted with arrival likely in SYD at about 1226, 61 minutes late.

QF93 (A388 VH-OQL) was airborne from MEL at 1144 and should arrive in LAX at about 0815 same day, an hour and 40 minutes late. Given its diversion as QF94 into SYD this morning, its fairly efficient stop there of just under an hour and the fog in MEL earlier today, that is not a bad outcome.

The 1010 MEL north to BNE, QF612, was airborne at 1059 and should be in the Queensland capital at about 1304 hours, 44 minutes late with B738 VH-XZM the aircraft.

 

[Melburnian1]

Residual delays from this morning's fog in MEL are continuing into the mid to late evening with QF633, the 1830 hours BNE to MEL (B738 VH-VZP) taking off at 1902 - not badly late - but in a holding pattern as at 2105 hours a little to Bendigo's east, so an expected 2134 or so arrival will see it at the terminal 39 minutes late.

The 1755 CNS- SYD should arrive at around the 2126 hours mark, 36 minutes late. VH-VZD, another B738 is the aircraft.

The 1915 hours SYD to MEL, QF493, took off at 1943 but will not arrive until about 2127, 37 minutes late. B738 VH-VZS is the plane.

The next southbound flight, QF467 (the 1930 hours ex SYD) took off at 1954 - again hardly 'late' - but with also being in a holding pattern as at 2116 hours will not arrive MEL until about 2146 hours, which would be 41 minutes late. VH-VXA is the conveyance.

Northbound QF493 (B738 VH-XZF) took off at 2100 even, so SYD arrival ex MEL should be at approximately 2203 instead of 2125, or 38 minutes late.

 

[Quickstatus]

Thanks for keeping us updated. Your foresight regarding the fog in MEL gave the Delays and cancellation thread new energy. I think it's one of the most active threads in the last 48-72 hrs.

QF94 to 93 really has minimised the effects of the fog. For an ultra long range operation, this has been an excellent recovery. For the rest of the fleet in recovery mode, I wonder if there any infrastructure improvements can be made to mitigate similar weather effects in the future.

QF15 (2/6/15) which diverted to HNL finally arrived in JFK as QF11 ar 2130, efficiently turned around and arrived back in LAX at 0120. Luckily the A380 QF12 waited and then departed for SYD at 0342 and is scheduled to arrive after 1000 am on 4 June some 4 hours late.

As is normal practice QF94 (2/6/16) did not wait for the late ex JFK passengers

 

[Melburnian1]

Quickstatus, one of our esteemed contributors - a tech crew member - referred to this in the separate thread (general discussion area) about 'some chance of fog in MEL this week'. Refer to it: I won't repeat the information here.

The delayed QF11 'tag flight' - delay due to the diversion of QF15, the B744 ex BNE, to HNL en route to LAX - departed LAX at 1312 on Thursday 2 June instead of 0820 hours, reaching JFK at 2122 hours instead of the scheduled 1640.

Turning around, it departed JFK as the usual QF12 'tag flight' at 2317 instead of 1810 hours - spending an hour and 55 minutes in 'The Big Apple', and arriving in LAX at 0117 on Friday 3 June instead of the usual Thursday mid evening 2105 hours at the LAX terminal.

QF12, the A388-operated main leg, departed LAX at 0316 hours today (Friday) instead of 2230 on late Thursday evening, so Saturday 4 June SYD arrival should be at 1045 instead of 0630 hours.

QF16 closely followed QF12 out of LAX, with the B744 departing the USA at 0328 hours on Friday morning instead of 2320 on Thursday late evening, with arrival in a potentially rainy BNE due at 0925 hours on Saturday 4 June instead of the timetabled 0620 hours. It will have picked up a bit more time than the SYD-bound flight if these estimates become reality.

As generally seems to occur when QF12 is late into LAX, the Melbourne-bound QF94 flew the coop and departed just eight minutes behind at 2223 - essentially 'on time' given the 15 minute allowance typically used in aviation RPT flights for punctuality measurement. As other AFFers explained, one reason for this is that it has a comparatively tight turnaround in MEL.

 

[Flyerqf]

Quickstatus, one of our esteemed contributors - a tech crew member - referred to this in the separate thread (general discussion area) about 'some chance of fog in MEL this week'. Refer to it: I won't repeat the information here.

The delayed QF11 'tag flight' - delay due to the diversion of QF15, the B744 ex BNE, to HNL en route to LAX - departed LAX at 1312 on Thursday 2 June instead of 0820 hours, reaching JFK at 2122 hours instead of the scheduled 1640.

Turning around, it departed JFK as the usual QF12 'tag flight' at 2317 instead of 1810 hours - spending an hour and 55 minutes in 'The Big Apple', and arriving in LAX at 0117 on Friday 3 June instead of the usual Thursday mid evening 2105 hours at the LAX terminal.

QF12, the A388-operated main leg, departed LAX at 0316 hours today (Friday) instead of 2230 on late Thursday evening, so Saturday 4 June SYD arrival should be at 1045 instead of 0630 hours.

QF16 closely followed QF12 out of LAX, with the B744 departing the USA at 0328 hours on Friday morning instead of 2320 on Thursday late evening, with arrival in a potentially rainy BNE due at 0925 hours on Saturday 4 June instead of the timetabled 0620 hours. It will have picked up a bit more time than the SYD-bound flight if these estimates become reality.

As generally seems to occur when QF12 is late into LAX, the Melbourne-bound QF94 flew the coop and departed just eight minutes behind at 2223 - essentially 'on time' given the 15 minute allowance typically used in aviation RPT flights for punctuality measurement. As other AFFers explained, one reason for this is that it has a comparatively tight turnaround in MEL.

As discussed previously, QF94 is the only flight that can leave on time if the QF12 from JFK is late. 16 can't depart on time as the aircraft is inbound from JFK and QF12, even though a different aircraft, can't take off to SYD before the first leg QF12 has arrived into LAX from JFK.

No point all 3 flights being delayed, so the 94 leaves on time and any connecting passengers reaccommodated.