Qantas Delays/Cancellations

[Melburnian1]

On Thursday 30 June QF425 from SYD down to MEL (B738 VH-VXE), the 1030 hours, departed at 1113 and took off at about 1131, with arrival likely at 1245, 40 minutes late.

 

[Melburnian1]

VH-OQC scheduled as QF6010 MNL-SYD having completed maintenance. Due into SYD at 0938 on 30/6

Even these empty workings - 'ferry flights' - can run late, as VH-OQC is descending and about to arrive in SYD at around 1150 or so. It took off at MNL at 0231 local time (0441 AEST).

QF616, the 1210 MEL - BNE was not airborne until 1331; in the shape of B738 VH-XZI it should arrive at about 1515 hours, 55 minutes late. QF618 (B738 VH-VZM), the 1310 hours ex MEL took off more or less on time at 1329 and is hot on QF616's heels with only four minutes between them given that QF618 is on time or perhaps a minute early depending on the time taken between touchdown and gate arrival. This again shows at times that domestic flights timetabled 15 minutes to an hour apart can be a bit of a lottery in punctuality but often neither airlines nor passengers have much if any warnings of delays so it is frequently impractical to swap flights to 'get there first' even if one has only hand luggage and there were spare seats.

This seems to be a case where the aircraft that was slightly later (by two minutes) to take off (QF616) has managed to overtake QF618 with QF616 taking a slightly more direct flight path near Grafton, NSW. This makes sense: in transport, it is generally beneficial to network timekeeping with most modes to allow the late running service to gain as much time as possible - if that means delaying a second essentially punctual flight in this case by a couple of minutes, it is a good move by ATC.

 

[Melburnian1]

A traveller who was on the DXB - SYD QF2 departing on Wednesday morning (29 June 2016) from DXB said to me that departure was originally to be on time at 0915 hours (as noted above, the flight had arrived 21 minutes early at 0709 ex LHR) but was then put back to 0945, as there were problems with one of the four airconditioning units, but the flight missed that departure pushback slot with the next one being around 1100, so it eventually departed at 1049.

It did however pick up a lot of time to SYD as this morning (Thursday 30 June) it was only 41 minutes late at 0551. Once again this shows how slack the schedules can be.

 

[Melburnian1]

Friday 1 July 2016 has seen QF2012, the 0655 early morning from SYD to TMW cancelled. This may well be QF's first cancellation for the 2016-17 financial year on a route that together with SYD - ARM has lately had much unpunctual running and quite a few June 2016 cancelled flights. As anyone who has been to ARM and TMW knows, they can be pretty nippy to put it mildly in the depths of winter and so aviation faces challenges on occasion operating to these provincial cities.

Closer to midday, the 1155 hours SYD - CBR (QF1477) has also got the gong.

The 0815 hours SYD to DBO (QF2040) is delayed until at least 0855 in its departure while QF2205, the 0820 SYD down to ABX is similarly tardy.

Later in the morning, QF2024, the 1025 SYD up to ARM is forecast to be 80 minutes late in departing at 1145.

 

[docjames]

No news on the DHC-8 that returned to Coffs after declaring an emergency yesterday?

 

[Melburnian1]

Not long ago, AFF member Quickstatus put together an interesting utilisation table for QF's B744s and showed that peak utilisation was over the weekend, with the least busy day for the 11 in the fleet being Wednesdays.

We should credit Quickstatus with some foresight and even more wisdom because on Friday 1 July, a new financial year sees the same old problems with QF73, the 1300 hours SYD - SFO (aircraft VH-OJT) not having taken off until 1842 hours. Arrival is predicted - same day - as 1410 which would be four hours and 40 minutes late. Fortunately this should not delay the Friday 1 July QF74 from SFO to SYD, all being well.

Earlier, another B744 flight, QF27 (1230 hours SYD - SCL longhaul) departed at 1326 hours with arrival expected at 1200, 50 minutes late.

Prior to that, a third B744 rotation, QF63 from SYD to JNB also departed late, 75 minutes in its case with departure at 1205 meaning a forecast 1830 hours arrival in JNB, 80 minutes late. QF64 will inevitably depart tardy, tonight JNB time.

QF127 from SYD to HKG (anoether B744, VH-OJU) departed 41 minutes late this morning at 1046 with arrival suggested as 1758 hours, 38 minutes behind. The second HKG bound flight ex SYD today, QF83 is also late (A333 VH-QPF) with arrival suggested as about 1811, 31 minutes late.

The Thursday 30 June QF12 transcontinental United States of America sector, another B744 job, was also late, departing JFK at 1900 hours (50 minutes late) with LAX arrival at 2146, 41 minutes late. This plane normally forms QF16 which had a much longer delay at LAX than one might think, it not departing until 0100 on Friday 1 July, 100 minutes late with a predicted Saturday 2 July arrival in BNE of 0755 hours, 105 minutes late.

The Thursday 30 June QF12 LAX - SYD leg, normally an A388, departed at 0001 hours on Friday, 91 late, with SYD Saturday 2 July arrival predicted at 0820 hours, 110 minutes behind the eight ball.

When QF12 is delayed ex JFK or into LAX, the Melbourne-bound QF94 often pushes back merrily on its way to MEL pretty much on time with connecting passengers ex the delayed QF12 JFK - LAX B744 - if there are available seats - sometimes travelling instead on the A388 operating QF12 from LAX to SYD and then down to MEL on a domestic, adding hours to the trip.

However on Thursday night 30 June QF94 surprisingly did not depart until 2324 hours, 69 minutes late, with Saturday 2 July arrival expected at 0805, 65 minutes late.

This late running ex the good ol' USA may mean some delayed QF Oz to west coast USA departures on Saturday 2 July, although as always staff do their best to turn delayed aircraft around in the minimum time possible, which from observation is around an hour and 35 minutes - if achieved, that is very good going considering that the pilots and cabin crew change, deplaning of passengers takes more than 10 minutes, catering must be wheeled off and new catering placed on board, cleaners cannot do their job in three minutes, freight and passenger luggage must be unloaded and replacements of both loaded and passengers have to board - then at the last minute there may be some no shows who as AFF member JohnPhelan sagaciously remarked may be 'IN THE BARRRR', enjoying themselves but perhaps selfishly delaying others and an aircraft that chews up extra fuel as it waits to depart.

 

[gaz0303]

My parents missed their connecting QF codeshare flight from MAN to BNE in DXB by 10 minutes due to a technical issue with the EK plane in MAN. A 2 hour stop over turned into an 8.5hr stop over and stops in BKK and SYD before arriving in BNE 13hours later than scheduled. Quite an adventure for two 75+yr olds. Anyway, is QF or EK responsible for reticketing codeshare flights when delays occur? Who should be paying EU 261/2004 comp? I was surprised by the re-routing on EK418 when tickets on EK434 (as QF codeshare) direct to BNE where still on sale. Sorry if wrong thread.

 

[Melburnian1]

gaz0303, how many hours and minutes was the delayed departure from MAN for the EK flight on which your parents travelled, albeit on QF codeshare tickets?

Were they connecting in DXB to (the QF codeshare equivalent of) EK432, the 0245 hours terribly timed DXB to BNE flight from (the QF codeshare) EK18, the 1400 hours MAN to DXB that is timetabled into DXB at 0015 next day?

I am happy to be corrected but for flights like this from memory EU261 compensation only applies to delays of four hours or more. Does it apply to the arrival time (in this case) in DXB (where the flight ex the EU member state terminated) or BNE (the passengers' destination)?

 

[gaz0303]

gaz0303, how many hours and minutes was the delayed departure from MAN for the EK flight on which your parents travelled, albeit on QF codeshare tickets?

1hr 53m delay according to my Tripcase..which has turned into a 13.5hr delay to final destination

Yes - EK18 (QF8018) 1400 MAN to DXB onto 0245 EK432 (QF8432)

 

[Simo]

1hr 53m according to my Tripcase..which has turned into a 13.5hr delay to final destination

Small delays can have some not very nice knock on effects

 

[gaz0303]

Small delays can have some not very nice knock on effects

Im just hoping it will be 2 x 600eur

 

[BD1959]

Perhaps the difference can be explained that I used a measurement that was a 'gust' whereas the other source (not BOM) may be what the wind is 'constantly' rather than a (maximum) 'gust'.

TAF has 36018G32KT

This TAF (Terminal Area Forecast) I quoted includes gusts: Wind from North (360) 18 Kts gusting to 32 Kts.

Regards,

BD

 

[MEL_Traveller]

gaz0303, how many hours and minutes was the delayed departure from MAN for the EK flight on which your parents travelled, albeit on QF codeshare tickets?

Were they connecting in DXB to (the QF codeshare equivalent of) EK432, the 0245 hours terribly timed DXB to BNE flight from (the QF codeshare) EK18, the 1400 hours MAN to DXB that is timetabled into DXB at 0015 next day?

I am happy to be corrected but for flights like this from memory EU261 compensation only applies to delays of four hours or more. Does it apply to the arrival time (in this case) in DXB (where the flight ex the EU member state terminated) or BNE (the passengers' destination)?

Im just hoping it will be 2 x 600eur

It's the arrival time in BNE. In principle the 600 should be in the running. Will depend how easy EK wants to make it to claim.

A delay under the specified times at the point of departure doesn't matter - it's the final arrival delay (for directly connecting flights) that counts.

 

[Melburnian1]

MEL_Traveller, in this case, should gaz0303 parents' claim be directed to QF (as the travellers would have a QF passenger name record with four digit codeshare flight numbers and ticket) or EK (as the airline that operated the flights)?

 

[MEL_Traveller]

MEL_Traveller, in this case, should gaz0303 parents' claim be directed to QF (as the travellers would have a QF passenger name record with four digit codeshare flight numbers and ticket) or EK (as the airline that operated the flights)?

I honestly don't know! It's a tricky area.

When discussing eligibility for EU compensation the regulations talk about all carriers exEU and the operating carrier into the EU. By inference this could suggest that the operating carrier is the key. In that case it would be EK.

However, the other school of thought is that as the flight is leaving the EU, both operating and marketing carrier should have responsibility... but then you end up with the 'oh it wasn't us, it was them' arguments by the airlines.

I would suggest the OP needs to do some research to make sure they lodge the claim with the carrier they think will give them the best chance.

 

[Melburnian1]

With the delay to inbound QF94 arriving in MEL on Saturday 2 July, QF93 (A388 VH-OQB) was naturally late away for its longhaul return to LAX. It took off at 1048 despite a timetabled pushback of 0915 hours; same day arrival should be at about 0720 hours, 50 minutes late.

Saturday 2's QF23 (0950 hours SYD - BKK) did not depart until 1039 with arrival predicted at 1715 in lieu of the timebaled 1640 hours, 35 late.

The 1050 hours longhaul B744 to JNB ex SYD was again quite late today, with departure at 1207 for a projected arrival in the South African major city (though not its capital) at 1825, 75 minutes late. This will for the second consecutive day result in a late departure for QF64.

Yesterday (Friday 1 July's) QF63 arrived in JNB 82 minutes late at 1832 with the returning QF64 departing at 2030, 80 minutes late for a suggested Saturday 2 July SYD arrival at 1530, only half an hour late.

The second HKG-bound flight on 2 July, QF83, departed 35 minutes late at 1050 but is expected to lose further time, with arrival in HKG suggested as 50 minutes late at 1830 tonight.

Adding to moa999's information a few posts above, there is a transfer (empty or industry term 'ferry') flight tonight (Saturday 2 July - presumably an A388), QF6009, that looks like it is scheduled at 1810 hours but is predicted to depart half an hour early at 1740 from SYD to presumably Lufthansa Technik in sunny MNL. Why QF shows these crew-only flights on a public website is beyond me.

Do these A388 'ferry flights' have a full (or at least some) flight attendants on board to arm the doors and provide refreshments to the tech crew, or do the latter fend for themselves using the on board facilities to chill and then heat food and drinks as required?

 

[jb747]

Do these A388 'ferry flights' have a full (or at least some) flight attendants on board to arm the doors and provide refreshments to the tech crew, or do the latter fend for themselves using the on board facilities to chill and then heat food and drinks as required?

The number of cabin crew on ferry flights is quite variable. On most domestic ferries, it will just be the pilots. Longer flights (to Manila for instance) may have one cabin crew member. Very long ferries might get a second one.

As some ferries are actually intended to replace aircraft downstream, it's also possible that the flight could be used to move an entire crew. The seats won't be sold, but the airline might make use of them.

Most of the doors are not armed. We arm only a couple right behind the coughpit.

 

[milehighclub]

There are usually two flight attendants on these ferry flights and they only ever arm the first set of doors. This ferry to Manila is actually two days late as OQG had to do a dash to DFW due to engineering on the original aircraft expected to operate it on Thursday.

 

[gaz0303]

MEL_Traveller, in this case, should gaz0303 parents' claim be directed to QF (as the travellers would have a QF passenger name record with four digit codeshare flight numbers and ticket) or EK (as the airline that operated the flights)?

Ive sent the same question to Qantas. The worse part that after arrival in Sydney, QF gave them the run around and wouldn't issue the connecting ticket to BNE. Rather than making the 1005 flight as held, or the 1105, they were finally ticketed onto the 1305 flight. It seems they were pawns in a QF/EK game, being sent desk to desk in SYD. They were even asked for excess baggage for the domestic leg, not recognising their original ticketing. At least they stood firm and didn't pay that request.

 

[Melburnian1]

It seems they were pawns in a QF/EK game, being sent desk to desk in SYD. They were even asked for excess baggage for the domestic leg, not recognising their original ticketing. At least they stood firm and didn't pay that request.

On the surface at least, not a great way to treat 'seniors' who have been travelling for hours longer than timetabled. They must have been very tired, even if they are normally sprightly souls.