Qantas Delays/Cancellations

[whughes3]

Thanks bad for your report!!

If you are able to, can you let us know what the letters were for?. Were they on request or provided as part of the airline's recovery efforts?

We also received such letters after the QF19 diversion to CRK (Aug 5) noted above; everyone was given them I think, and it was stated that they were in case people needed to claim on travel insurance for missed connections etc.

 

[Quickstatus]

We also received such letters after the QF19 diversion to CRK (Aug 5) noted above; everyone was given them I think, and it was stated that they were in case people needed to claim on travel insurance for missed connections etc.

Are you able to post a picture of one of these letters if you have it?. De-identified of course

Thanks in advance

 

[Melburnian1]

While the Wednesday 10 August QF12 (B744) from JFK to LAX arrived 41 minutes late at 2146, some Australia-bound flights were more badly delayed.

QF12 (A388) for SYD did not depart from LAX until 0017 on Thursday 11 August, 107 minutes tardy. Friday 12 arrival is suggested as 0755 hours, 85 minutes late.

QF94 departed 29 minutes late for MEL at 2244 but should only be 15 minutes late in arriving on Friday morning at 0715. The infrequent B744, QF96, pushed back 85 minutes late at 0100 hours today (Thursday 11) and is similarly expected to be a quarter of an hour late at MEL, predicted arrival being 0815.

The B744 flight (on a gate-to-gate basis) is a forecast hour and a quarter faster than the A388 flight to MEL. I have not looked it up but a longer taxi for QF94 may be the reason if all the times on the QF website are correct.

The other flight, QF16 to BNE should be 50 minutes late at 0700 on Friday morning. This should (fingers crossed) be more than sufficient layover time to form a punctual QF15.

 

[Quickstatus]

While the Wednesday 10 August QF12 (B744) from JFK to LAX arrived 41 minutes late at 2146, some Australia-bound flights were more badly delayed.

QF12 (A388) for SYD did not depart from LAX until 0017 on Thursday 11 August, 107 minutes tardy. Friday 12 arrival is suggested as 0755 hours, 85 minutes late.

QF94 departed 29 minutes late for MEL at 2244 but should only be 15 minutes late in arriving on Friday morning at 0715. The infrequent B744, QF96, pushed back 85 minutes late at 0100 hours today (Thursday 11) and is similarly expected to be a quarter of an hour late at MEL, predicted arrival being 0815.

The B744 flight (on a gate-to-gate basis) is a forecast hour and a quarter faster than the A388 flight to MEL. I have not looked it up but a longer taxi for QF94 may be the reason if all the times on the QF website are correct.

The other flight, QF16 to BNE should be 50 minutes late at 0700 on Friday morning. This should (fingers crossed) be more than sufficient layover time to form a punctual QF15.

Wow this is becoming a regular occurrence.

I wonder if all of this can be fairly sheeted home to the airline ( I believe you run a very fair commentary M1 so no criticism of your posts). After all the aircraft sits at LAX for most of the say except the transcontinental QF11/12. Contract Maintenance is carried out during the downtime at LAX. Could this be partly to blame just like the overnight road repairs that are not finished before the morning rush hour.
Is despatch run by the airline or the airport - is this the Achilles heel?

 

[Melburnian1]

Wow this is becoming a regular occurrence. I wonder if all of this can be fairly sheeted home to the airline?

Quickstatus, notably the flights back to Oz can often pick up time on a gate-to-gate basis but yes, they have become unreliable.

Probably the late running of the across USA QF12 (which sometimes starts from LAX late as QF11) is a contributor, but as we saw with my post above, the degree of lateness increased in LAX between the late arrival of QF12 ex JFK and some departures to the east coast of Oz.

It would appear that as long as QF insist on serving JFK with 'own metal', this problem will continue.

VA has hardly covered itself in glory lately with some extreme unpunctuality and even cancellations of its VA7/VA8 BNE - LAX - BNE flights (although the SYD - LAX returns VA1 and VA2 are a lot better) while DL had its very recent computer meltdown that threw its huge network into disarray.

UA does not appear to have had any noticeable problems with its MEL and SYD flights lately (of course it will in the next week now that this has been mentioned).

A 'solution' may be for prospective travellers to patronise VA ex SYD (but not BNE - with its small fleet of longhaul aircraft, if one is inoperable, BNE gets the chop not SYD), DL or UA but if wanting QF, to travel via SFO on QF73/74 or DFW on QF7/QF8, with all these seemingly more punctual than the LAX offerings.

These 'solutions', admittedly, will not suit everyone.

Given that LAX is a premier route - key west coast gateway to the USA, with California's population more than 50 per cent above Australia's and the home of entrepreneurs in the Valley, if I was managing QF I'd be spending some time trying to nut out how to reduce this unpunctuality. Surely some regular business travellers (including those on relatively tight schedules) must be noticing the unreliability. Sitting in a modern lounge enjoying spirits or whatever is one's favoured tipple is great but for the more important travellers, a reasonable effort at punctuality can be important.

Perhaps Quickstatus' contribution re maintenance running over time is on the money, or at least one of the reasons punctuality has declined.

One of our esteemed contributors mentioned runway works at LAX but notably on some nights the AA flight ex LAX seems to take less time on a gate-to-gate basis across the Pacific than the QF 'colleagues.'

 

[Quickstatus]

Im thinking along the lines of what it takes to despatch the aircraft. The loading of an aircraft only takes place at x hours prior to departure. Freight, fuel, passengers. These take some coordination and often a small problem quickly consumes any spare "time up the sleeve" which also prevents the aircraft from closing the doors and the pilots from signing off the load sheets.

Who has the ground support services contract at LAX?

Does the fact that between 2100hrs and midnight some of the biggest aircraft in the world depart in numbers from TBIT have anything to do with punctuality from TBIT.
- including A330, A380 x5, B777 x10, B747 x2 between 2100 and 0100 hrs.



Pressures at despatch moving maybe 6000 international pax in 4 hrs with luggage and long haul freight and intercontinental fuel volumes??. Would be great to hear from a despatchers regarding relative ease in despatching different aircraft types

UA and DL have their own terminal so relatively immune to issues if any at TBIT

 

[Melburnian1]

On Friday 12 August, QF29, the 1020 MEL - HKG is expected to instead depart at 1100. There is no obvious inbound late running to delay it.

QF409, the 0700 SYD to MEL departed 35 minutes late with arrival expected 24 minutes tardy at 0909.

QF118 from HKG to SYD (A333 VH-QPE) should pull in to the gate at about 0854, 39 minutes late.

The 1030 MEL - CBR, QF1528, has been cancelled.

 

[dajop]

QF35 today, Fri 12 Aug, scheduled departure 1145 now due to depart at 1530, only 10 mins ahead of QF37. My partner was tossing up between 35 and 37, and glad he chose 37. Also noteworthy that 35 and 37 both filled up at last minute due to cancellation of JQ7, so if you were on JQ7 and transferred to the 30 min later QF35 would be very much out of luck today. (as aside, I wonder if this is cancelled due to only two plane loads of pax across the three flights.... in both dirns)

 

[Melburnian1]

Also noteworthy that 35 and 37 both filled up at last minute due to cancellation of JQ7, so if you were on JQ7 and transferred to the 30 min later QF35 would be very much out of luck today. (as aside, I wonder if this is cancelled due to only two plane loads of pax across the three flights.... in both dirns)

dajop, an important point that many observers forget: if a plane is truly cancelled due to insufficient bookings and not a maintenance, repair, staffing, airport runway, ill passenger, terrorism or weather-related reason, generally speaking the bookings have to be poor each way - otherwise the airline has the problem of how to transport 300 'stranded' passengers.

On Friday 12 August, QF83, the stupidly timetabled 1015 from HKG to SYD that is scheduled only 10 minutes after QF127 (why not have a day and a night flight as AFF member Awesom Andy and I have discussed) did not pushback until 1100, so arrival is predicted as 1810 rather than 1740.

Conversely, QF23 (0950 hours SYD - BKK) departed only four minutes late - not a 'delay' that any of us record - but is not expected to be at the BKK terminal until 1716, 36 minutes tardy.

QF63 from SYD to JNB, the B744, departed at 1255 instead of 1050 and so is estimated to arrive in the major South African city (but not its capital) at 1840, 90 minutes late, delaying the returning Friday night overnight QF64 back to SYD.

Earlier, QF129, the 0935 hours from SYD to PVG pushed back at 1031 but is suggested as picking up much time with arrival suggested as 1855 tonight, only 25 minutes behind the timetable.

While QF19 departed half an hour late ex SYD at 1240 hours for MNL, QF suggests (optimistically) that it will arrive on time at 1830. Growing MNL early evening air traffic congestion makes this fairly unlikely with extensive holds pretty frequent at this time of year, especially if thunderstorms are making their presence felt.

 

[Melburnian1]

On Thursday 11 August, QF11 departed LAX on time at 0820, arriving JFK at 1705, 25 minutes late. This returning B744 to LAX did not however push back from New York's major airport until 1937 hours, 87 minutes late with arrival in LAX predicted to be exactly an hour behind at 2205.

The different aircraft (A388) QF12 is expected to depart 50 minutes late at 2320 for SYD as a consequence while the (ex-QF12) B744-operated QF16 from LAX to BNE should push back an hour late at 0020 super early on Friday 12. As sometimes occurs, QF94 is expected to be unaffected with departure indicated as a punctual 2215, presumably again meaning MEL-bound passengers are given short straws and must travel via SYD adding hours to the trip.

 

[dajop]

dajop, an important point that many observers forget: if a plane is truly cancelled due to insufficient bookings and not a maintenance, repair, staffing, airport runway, ill passenger, terrorism or weather-related reason, generally speaking the bookings have to be poor each way - otherwise the airline has the problem of how to transport 300 'stranded' passengers.

With these three flights, QF 35 & 37 were, this week, according to EF showing 9 in all booking classes (were able to secure a last minute award booking using BA Avios in Y) and JQ 7 was fairly cheap to purchase. I am sure there may be good operational reasons, but about 30 hours out 35/37 went to just Y2 and Y3 respectively, 0 in other fare classes and JQ 7 disappeared. Made me suspect light loadings ... could of course be wrong.

On Friday 12 August, QF83, the stupidly timetabled 1015 from HKG to SYD that is scheduled only 10 minutes after QF127 (why not have a day and a night flight as AFF member Awesom Andy and I have discussed)

What rubbish you both speak! It is a well known fact that Qantas customers do not like day flights back from Asia On Fri/Sat/Sun QF group has three flights and one EK codeshare doing SIN-MEL within a four hour period ... and none for the other 20 hrs of the day. I reckon JQ (with less emphasis on connections at the MEL end than QF) could do well with a 3pm out of SIN arriving in MEL at 0120.

 

[Melburnian1]

What rubbish you both speak! It is a well known fact that Qantas customers do not like day flights back from Asia

dajop, I appreciate the humour.

Perhaps one of a few reasons why QFi has such a low market share on many routes is that unlike CX, D7, MH, PR, SQ and TG to name a few, QF tends not to offer the 'own metal' choice of daytime and night departures from either end. Remember, a day departure from Asia can nicely form a night departure from most Australian major airports (SYD with its 2300 hours curfew could be a problem) back to southeast Asia.

Many years ago, the railways in Victoria rearranged their country longer distance trains and offered a minimum of a morning, lunchtime and early evening departure. The number of travellers shot up hugely. Airlines like QF need to learn from examples like this, which some airlines have copied: SQ's spread of frequencies to SIN is pretty good from most larger Oz airports, and the patronage reflects that.

I would bet that changing the HKG timetables to give as close as possible 12 hours between flights, offering two a day each way, would increase ridership. Yields might even rise somewhat, all other things being equal.

Maybe someone from QF's operations or marketing sections reads these threads. I'd be the first to acknowledge that it is complex: equipment has to be available as do crews and QF may be very risk-averse with night time departures from SYD missing the curfew, but it does it with QF3 from SYD to HNL and to some extent with the HND-bound flight (latter is a bit earlier) while other airlines manage it and give a nice spread of their multiple flights throughout the day and evening.

 

[Melburnian1]

Friday 12 August also sees the mid afternoon QF2329 (1500 hours GLT down to BNE) not having been airborne until 1758 with arrival of Q300 VH-TQZ suggested as 1913, 198 minutes tardy.

 

[Quickstatus]

With these three flights, QF 35 & 37 were, this week, according to EF showing 9 in all booking classes (were able to secure a last minute award booking using BA Avios in Y) and JQ 7 was fairly cheap to purchase. I am sure there may be good operational reasons, but about 30 hours out 35/37 went to just Y2 and Y3 respectively, 0 in other fare classes and JQ 7 disappeared. Made me suspect light loadings ... could of course be wrong.

The other factor supporting Dajops suggestion of "dynamic load management" is that passengers flying QF35 arriving into SIN does not usually have any 1 PNR connections to St Elsewhere reducing any liability to house and feed misconnected passengers

 

[Melburnian1]

The Thursday 11 August QF94 departed LAX 38 minutes late; on Saturday 13, it should arrive MEL half an hour behind at 0730, slightly delaying the 0915 hours scheduled QF93 back to LAX if recent turnarounds are any guide.

QF12 departed from LAX 58 minutes tardy with Saturday 13 August SYD arrival forecast as 45 minutes late at 0715. BNE-bound QF16, the B744, left LAX 83 minutes late and should arrive on Saturday morning at 0745, 95 minutes late. Hopefully the cycle of late QF16 - late QF15 - late across USA QF11 - late QF12 back to LAX - late east coast departures to BNE and SYD does not repeat.

In the scheme of things a 45 minute delay on a 12 hour plus flight is in one sense relatively minor, but some businessmen and women who are on tighter schedules than many leisure travellers may be annoyed if the unpunctuality results in a missed connection, especially to destinations that have lower flight or surface travel frequencies.

 

[katiebell]

Perhaps one of a few reasons why QFi has such a low market share on many routes is that unlike CX, D7, MH, PR, SQ and TG to name a few, QF tends not to offer the 'own metal' choice of daytime and night departures from either end. Remember, a day departure from Asia can nicely form a night departure from most Australian major airports (SYD with its 2300 hours curfew could be a problem) back to southeast Asia.

Many years ago, the railways in Victoria rearranged their country longer distance trains and offered a minimum of a morning, lunchtime and early evening departure. The number of travellers shot up hugely. Airlines like QF need to learn from examples like this, which some airlines have copied: SQ's spread of frequencies to SIN is pretty good from most larger Oz airports, and the patronage reflects that.

I would bet that changing the HKG timetables to give as close as possible 12 hours between flights, offering two a day each way, would increase ridership. Yields might even rise somewhat, all other things being equal.

Maybe someone from QF's operations or marketing sections reads these threads. I'd be the first to acknowledge that it is complex: equipment has to be available as do crews and QF may be very risk-averse with night time departures from SYD missing the curfew, but it does it with QF3 from SYD to HNL and to some extent with the HND-bound flight (latter is a bit earlier) while other airlines manage it and give a nice spread of their multiple flights throughout the day and evening.

QF have appeared to be obsessed with bigger and bigger aircraft which are harder to fill and, therefore, more likely to make a route 'unprofitable'. Other airlines flying these routes (e.g. CX) offer mroe frequent services in smaller aircraft which are easier to fill and, therefore more profitable. In addition, they can then advertise '3x/day' etc flights and give us a choice of times to suit our needs. In addition, the A380 has minimal cargo capacity so it is essentila to have a high load factor to make the route profitable. Other aircraft can use freight to off-set the costs and, therefore, a lower load factor can be tolerated

 

[Melburnian1]

As suggested in post 3909 above, QF19 on 12 August did not arrive MNL until 1909 hours despite the very optimistic QF website stating it would pull in to the gate on time at 1830.

Anyone who travels to an airport such as MNL knows that more times than not, there is air traffic congestion at that hour, just as approaching HKG after about 1730 local time often sees delays starting to build. The QF website predictive software should take these likely delays into account and not give meeters and greeters and others what is many times going to be a false representation as to when a QFi flight will arrive.

 

[jimmylikesitwet]

Waiting for QF93 MEL-LAX this morning. Delay has been announced in the lounge due to engineering issue. New ETD is midday (scheduled for 9:15am).

 

[Melburnian1]

Waiting for QF93 MEL-LAX this morning. Delay has been announced in the lounge due to engineering issue. New ETD is midday (scheduled for 9:15am).

Arrival is suggested as two and a quarter hours late at 0850 same day. It often surprises me that with 'engineering' as the problem that an airline knows a specific amended departure time.

 

[jimmylikesitwet]

Arrival is suggested as two and a quarter hours late at 0850 same day. It often surprises me that with 'engineering' as the problem that an airline knows a specific amended departure time.

I'm going to assume they are waiting on a part to arrive from Sydney. I guess that as long as they are aware of the problem (and fix) they can be reasonably confident about the resolution time. That said I've seen these kind of delays continually push out by a few hours at a time.