Qantas Delays/Cancellations

[Quickstatus]

I'm sure many were twitchy, but what could you actually do?

Yes not much with respect to expediting the flight back to DXB. The new crew needed to be positioned to MCT , do their briefings preflights etc.

Certainly a lot of work behind the scenes was happening that passengers do not know about but somehow better communication with the passengers that this is happening could have alleviated some of the perceived confusion and lack of direction.

In situations like this where would they sit the crew?. Spare seats among the passengers? Or reassign seats so the crew sit in a group?

 

[Melburnian1]

If FR24, FlightAware and the QF website are correct, the delayed, diverted Friday 30 December QF9 ex MEL that landed in DWC does not yet appear to have left the latter for DXB despite it being almost noon local time there. All these websites (particularly the first two) appear to have difficulty coping with such diversions: they record how an aircraft has diverted and to which airport, but they then may not properly record the next sector from the diversion (alternate) airport to what was the timetabled stop.

However, a 1220 hours local time departure from DXB for LHR is still being publicly indicated.

 

[ab9898]

If FR24, FlightAware and the QF website are correct, the delayed, diverted Friday 30 December QF9 ex MEL that landed in DWC does not yet appear to have left the latter for DXB despite it being almost noon local time there. All these websites (particularly the first two) appear to have difficulty coping with such diversions: they record how an aircraft has diverted and to which airport, but they then may not properly record the next sector from the diversion (alternate) airport to what was the timetabled stop.

However, a 1220 hours local time departure from DXB for LHR is still being publicly indicated.

I'm currently in the U.K. due to depart on QF10 on 3 January. I understand that QF2 turns around as QF9, QF1 turns around as QF10 ect and am therefore wondering how likely it is that my flight will be affected by this major QF2 disruption event.

 

[Melburnian1]

ab9898, your flight is a small number of days off, so it's way too early to suggest what will occur. You may have a troublefree trip with no delays. The QF A388s fly to DFW, DXB, LAX, LHR and currently HKG with the base in SYD, although MEL schedules also feature these aircraft to DXB, LAX and LHR. Revisit this blog a day or so before as a guide to what may be occurring, but as with any transport operator, problems can occur at short notice. At other times, as you imply, delays 'compound.'

At times when there are significant delays QF has been known to terminate a flight ex MEL in particular at DXB and not run the DXB - LHR - DXB sectors but as we saw most recently, it can also switch 'what forms what' in LHR depending on the tardiness of each incoming flight, the QF1 or the QF9.

It will try to get you on your way as expeditiously as possible but it cannot control the weather such as fog in DXB. Breakdowns such as has occurred with the allegedly defective fuel sensor of aircraft VH-OQF are a separate matter, but I can't think of any reasonably sized transport operator - air or surface - that never has a failure in service.

The media (Fairfax) has now picked up on how Alan Joyce took the 'earlier' (delayed) QF2 from DXB to SYD. Not a great look, irrespective as to whether he did or did not occupy a seat that would normally be available for paying (non staff) passengers:

Qantas passengers bound for Sydney stranded in Dubai on New Year's Eve

 

[ab9898]

ab9898, your flight is a small number of days off, so it's way too early to suggest what will occur. You may have a troublefree trip with no delays. The QF A388s fly to DFW, DXB, LAX, LHR and currently HKG with the base in SYD, although MEL schedules also feature these aircraft to DXB, LAX and LHR. Revisit this blog a day or so before as a guide to what may be occurring, but as with any transport operator, problems can occur at short notice. At other times, as you imply, delays 'compound.'

At times when there are significant delays QF has been known to terminate a flight ex MEL in particular at DXB and not run the DXB - LHR - DXB sectors but as we saw most recently, it can also switch 'what forms what' in LHR depending on the tardiness of each incoming flight, the QF1 or the QF9.

It will try to get you on your way as expeditiously as possible but it cannot control the weather such as fog in DXB. Breakdowns such as has occurred with the allegedly defective fuel sensor of aircraft VH-OQF are a separate matter, but I can't think of any reasonably sized transport operator - air or surface - that never has a failure in service.

The media (Fairfax) has now picked up on how Alan Joyce took the 'earlier' (delayed) QF2 from DXB to SYD. Not a great look, irrespective as to whether he did or did not occupy a seat that would normally be available for paying (non staff) passengers:

Qantas passengers bound for Sydney stranded in Dubai on New Year's Eve

Thank you Melburnian1 for the comprehensive response. On our way over on QF9 we didn't depart Melbourne until around 2am. The pilot announced that a few days earlier there had been a medical emergency causing the plane, if I recall correctly, to make a diversion. The pilot explained that our delay was in part related to the cascade effect of that event days earlier. We will have to wait and see what the wider effect of this QF2 event will be.

I think the Alan Joyce story is probably a bit overblown- he just happened to be one of hundreds of passengers moved onto the second plane.

 

[Melburnian1]

The Friday 30 December QF9 (A388 VH-OQA) that diverted to DWC departed the latter at 1327 hours local time (2027 Australian Eastern Daylight (or Summer) Time) with DXB arrival suggested as 1421. QF has not indicated a departure time but if the flight performs the last sector, 1600 might be the aim meaning that the Friday 31 December QF2 that is due out of LHR at 2045 will be delayed. The latter is yet to be indicated on QF's website.

These diversions into alternate airports in the Middle East this week have usually taken a lot longer in the stay on the ground than QF had publicly estimated.

VH-OQB on the Friday 30 December QF9 ex LHR was at DXB from 1031 hours on Saturday 31 (166 minutes late) to a very recent departure time of 1340 hours (245 minutes late). SYD Sunday 1 January 2017 arrival is estimated at 1035, also 245 minutes tardy but sometimes this can change for the better.

VH-OQF appears to still be on the tarmac at DXB with the previously advised departure time of 1630 ex DXB (Saturday 31 December) remaining the public advice. That time equals 2330 tonight in MEL or SYD. Forecast Sunday 1 January 2017 arrival in SYD remains at 1300 hours early afternoon.

 

[kermatu]

From what I've read it doesn't appear that Alan 'bumped' anybody or took an earlier flight. He was on the Thursday flight and was delayed overnight and departed on Friday when the other passengers from his flight also left.
What people are questioning is whether the decision to make the last minute aircraft switch would have been made if staff weren't trying to look after AJ.
History would show that it's highly unusual to delay a second flight to minimize a delay on another.

Perhaps domestic flights are different but I disagree with the statement that other flights aren't delayed to minimise a delay on an earlier flight. Twice in the past three months I have been on domestic QF flights when my gate and aircraft have changed 45 to 60 minutes prior to departure time and that gate has been allocated to a flight that had earlier gone tech or been severely delayed by weather. Crew onboard acknowledged they/we were bumped so an earlier flight could experience a minimised delay, even though that then delayed us by 1 to 2 hours unnecessarily given our original aircraft was on time.

Fortunately both times were personal travel to a final destination so I didn't mind, but if I had connections or missed a business engagement I would have been very unhappy.

 

[Flyerqf]

The Friday 30 December QF9 (A388 VH-OQA) that diverted to DWC departed the latter at 1327 hours local time (2027 Australian Eastern Daylight (or Summer) Time) with DXB arrival suggested as 1421. QF has not indicated a departure time but if the flight performs the last sector, 1600 might be the aim meaning that the Friday 31 December QF2 that is due out of LHR at 2045 will be delayed. The latter is yet to be indicated on QF's website.

These diversions into alternate airports in the Middle East this week have usually taken a lot longer in the stay on the ground than QF had publicly estimated.

VH-OQB on the Friday 30 December QF9 ex LHR was at DXB from 1031 hours on Saturday 31 (166 minutes late) to a very recent departure time of 1340 hours (245 minutes late). SYD Sunday 1 January 2017 arrival is estimated at 1035, also 245 minutes tardy but sometimes this can change for the better.

VH-OQF appears to still be on the tarmac at DXB with the previously advised departure time of 1630 ex DXB (Saturday 31 December) remaining the public advice. That time equals 2330 tonight in MEL or SYD. Forecast Sunday 1 January 2017 arrival in SYD remains at 1300 hours early afternoon.

QF2 from Friday is now cancelled again. Some people will be spending a third night in Dubai.
Only now are they trying to get some people home via HKG and DOH.
With an A380 out of action, the schedule for the rest of the network will come under some pressure too.

 

[Pleb Status]

Perhaps domestic flights are different but I disagree with the statement that other flights aren't delayed to minimise a delay on an earlier flight. Twice in the past three months I have been on domestic QF flights when my gate and aircraft have changed 45 to 60 minutes prior to departure time and that gate has been allocated to a flight that had earlier gone tech or been severely delayed by weather. Crew onboard acknowledged they/we were bumped so an earlier flight could experience a minimised delay, even though that then delayed us by 1 to 2 hours unnecessarily given our original aircraft was on time.

Fortunately both times were personal travel to a final destination so I didn't mind, but if I had connections or missed a business engagement I would have been very unhappy.

I have found that domestic flights to SYD will generally be given priority as firstly, it is the only place that is important to QF, and secondly, the curfew.

I can recall a couple of occasions where our aircraft has been reassigned to a SYD flight and we have been abandoned for up to six hours waiting for another.

 

[Melburnian1]

I have found that domestic flights to SYD will generally be given priority as firstly, it is the only place that is important to QF, and secondly, the curfew.

I can recall a couple of occasions where our aircraft has been reassigned to a SYD flight and we have been abandoned for up to six hours waiting for another.

Pleb Status, when these instances occurred, were you travelling from PER to BNE or MEL, or somewhere else?

Many would share your view that QF is Sydney-centric, although in fairness it has recently introduced a MEL - NRT daily return flight. Notwithstanding WA's difficult economic times, PER is particularly poorly served by QFi, even allowing for the PER - LHR B789 announcement. WA won't be in recession forever, with Perth a most attractive city and the southwest of WA a wonderful region.

While it is years off, one wonders what QF will do when Melbourne is Australia's largest city. While it is yields more so than posteriors on seats that matter, economic activity may shift a little more to Melbourne as its population rises above Sydney's.

But that's a digression from the cancellations and delays thread.

 

[Melburnian1]

QF2 from Friday is now cancelled again. Some people will be spending a third night in Dubai.

Surely some passengers might now be resorting to trying to book their own way home on another airline via an intermediate airport. Travel insurers may cover this given it is such an unusual, lengthy delay.

Is a fuel sensor a particularly difficult, slow or fiddly piece of equipment to replace or to repair? Would a replacement have to be typically be flown in if a repair was not possible, and is it the sort of spare part that Airbus would have a stock of?

The Twitterati are starting to react. While some of the comments may be overblown or not fully informed, one can understand the frustration:

Nathan Gibbs ‏@McClitty 37m37 minutes ago
Yesterday's @Qantas QF2 bumped pax still stuck in Dubai indefinitely. Seems you don't get a flight out if Alan Joyce doesn't travel with you

 

[Himeno]

Thank you Melburnian1 for the comprehensive response. On our way over on QF9 we didn't depart Melbourne until around 2am. The pilot announced that a few days earlier there had been a medical emergency causing the plane, if I recall correctly, to make a diversion. The pilot explained that our delay was in part related to the cascade effect of that event days earlier. We will have to wait and see what the wider effect of this QF2 event will be.

When QF first changed to flying via DXB, both flights were in DXB at the same time, arrived LHR at around the same time and both spent all day in LHR before departing around the same time. This required 6 aircraft. When the MEL flights were retimed, so that they would spend less time on the ground in LHR, and in total across the network, free up enough time for an A380 to fly to DFW. This lowered the required aircraft needed for the LHR operation to 5 with each on the ground in London for around 5 hours. This also meant a very short turn around in MEL for both MEL A380 flights.

If there is any sort of delay on QF10 or QF94, the following QF9 or QF93 are likely to be delayed, with only the ~5 hours in LHR and ~16 hours in LAX to make up the time.

 

[Melburnian1]

The arrival of QF10 in MEL scheduled for 2125 hours on Saturday 31 December - two hours ago - should instead occur at about 0256 on Sunday morning, 1 January 2017. VH-OQD is the aircraft.

QF9 (due out in one minute as I write at 2324 - i.e. a 2325 hours departure) has been retimed to push back at an estimated 0500 on Sunday 1 January. The answer to 'how many glasses of wine one could consume in that time in the F lounge?' might be 'one more', but the wait will be unpleasant for passengers who do not have status and who are in the general waiting area. These delays must be particularly difficult for mothers or families travelling with young children including babies.

 

[Pleb Status]

Pleb Status, when these instances occurred, were you travelling from PER to BNE or MEL, or somewhere else?

Always PER-BNE v.v.

As I generally travel late afternoon or evening, the SYD curfew comes into play if a SYD flight is delayed for some reason.

QF have sacrificed on more than one occasion an on time PER-BNE or BNE-PER flight to ensure a PER=SYD or BNE-SYD flight will arrive on time.

 

[kermatu]

I have found that domestic flights to SYD will generally be given priority as firstly, it is the only place that is important to QF, and secondly, the curfew.

I can recall a couple of occasions where our aircraft has been reassigned to a SYD flight and we have been abandoned for up to six hours waiting for another.

Both of mine were actually ex-SYD. One was to DRW making way for a delayed flight to OOL, the other was to BNE to accommodate a late flight to ADL. Crew on the latter were not pleased as they had to overnight in BNE rather than return home to SYD.

 

[Melburnian1]

The delayed Friday 30 December QF9 (ex MEL) departed DXB at 1640 hours, eight hours and 10 minutes late for LHR. The QF website maintains fiction suggesting it will arrive LHR only three hours late at 1540. A 2030 hours LHR arrival would be closer to the mark, so presumably passengers on QF2 timetabled ex LHR at 2045 hours on Saturday 31 can look forward to a minimum hour and a half's delay in departing.

 

[yohy?!]

Didn't think it was usually the done thing to allow delayed flights to knock-on and impact multiple others? Why not just keep the first flight's pax an extra night without having to p!ss off others.

Seems like the brilliant but wafer-thin network planning is coming home to roost sadly.

 

[Melburnian1]

The Sunday 1 January 2017 arriving QF20 ex MNL should pull up in SYD at about 0646, 41 late.

 

[Flyerqf]

Didn't think it was usually the done thing to allow delayed flights to knock-on and impact multiple others? Why not just keep the first flight's pax an extra night without having to p!ss off others.

Seems like the brilliant but wafer-thin network planning is coming home to roost sadly.

on international you are correct it's not the done thing. If it was, then fridays passengers would have left today and the Saturday people delayed by 24 hrs. The suggestion is that this occurred because Alan Joyce was on the Thursday flight.

 

[Himeno]

They were able to rebook the displaced pax from the QF128 A380 > A333 overbook across the other QF ex-HKG flights. Why have they been unable to rebook the QF2 pax across QF10, the dozen EK flights into AU or via SIN, BKK, HKG or TYO?