Qantas Delays/Cancellations

[phily]

Airlines like to steal nautical terms such as 'purser', so let's say that Mr Alan Joyce is captain of the Qantas ship.

Do - or should - captains normally 'abandon ship' before their passengers?

AJ wasn't in charge of this ship, unlike a ship or plane captain who is responsible for safe operations & evacuations etc. AJ was merely a VIP.

 

[Flyerqf]

One passenger has stated that a pilot told her that only 14 crew were available, short of the total requirement, hence the delays to QF2. Not sure that this would be correct - and only one person has stated this.

 

[Himeno]

I'd be seriously questioning their competence if they'd only looked at direct flights!

In many cases, that's what ground crew do. More so when they have a large amount of people to get through.

I've had 2 flights which have had to be rerouted. First was QF CBR-SYD-NRT. SYD had weather issues for most of the day and all the CBR-SYD flights were delayed. It was getting to the point where I'd miss the connection to Tokyo and approached ground staff about it. They were "oh, we'll just put you on what ever flight is ready first" until I pointed out the connection, at which point, their plan was to get me to SYD, put me in a hotel overnight and transfer me to the morning JAL flight. It wasn't until they saw that the JL flight was full that they started looking at other options. I ended up with CBR-MEL-HKG-NRT (after their first option of JQ MEL-DRW-MNL-NRT).

Second time was US CAE-PHL-LGA. Weather and ATC delays were impacting almost every flight out of CAE. I noticed the issue before the ground staff did and had looked up other options and was heading to talk to someone when they asked for anyone with connections to come talk to them. Ground staff were blind to anything other then CAE-PHL-LGA, even if that meant putting me in a hotel in CAE or PHL. They did not even think about options into JFK until I pointed out the CAE-CLT-JFK flight.

They would likely have pulled up the booking of the pax they were dealing with at that time, seen where they were going to, and simply looked for flights to that place. If the pax were going to somewhere other then SYD, it seems more likely that the staff would think about other options then a non stop to SYD.

I find it hard to imagine that across QF10, all the EK flights to AU, and the possible EK-QF connections at SIN, BKK, HKG and TYO, that they couldn't find enough seats even with the high volume at this time of year.

 

[Melburnian1]

I find it hard to imagine that across QF10, all the EK flights to AU, and the possible EK-QF connections at SIN, BKK, HKG and TYO, that they couldn't find enough seats even with the high volume at this time of year.

MNL is another possible transfer point between EK and QF.

The Saturday 31 December QF2 from LHR to SYD (VH-OQA) departed DXB on Sunday 1 January 2017 91 minutes late at 1106. On Monday 2 January, it is forecast to be 80 minutes late into SYD at 0750 hours.

In the other direction, the MEL-originating QF9 (VH-OQD) that left at 0513 hours this morning (1 January) has just landed at DXB at about 1159 local time so it is still more than five and a half hours late compared to its timetabled arrival of 0630. A 1700 hours arrival at LHR is forecast: if true, all being well the Sunday evening 1 January 2045 hours QF2 from LHR ought be able to depart punctually.

The much delayed QF2 from DXB to SYD that should be VH-OQF remains publicly showing a proposed 1400 hours departure time (2100 AEDT) so that hopefully is a good sign, although some of these times on the QF website have been incorrect in recent days.

1 January 2017's QF27 departed SYD at 1449, 119 minutes late with SCL arrival suggested as 1235, 85 late. QF28 back from SCL will be delayed in its departure.

UPDATE: The much delayed QF2 has been further put back to depart DXB at 1430 hours on Sunday 1 January for a Monday 2 1050 hours SYD arrival.

 

[Milboo]

AJ wasn't in charge of this ship, unlike a ship or plane captain who is responsible for safe operations & evacuations etc. AJ was merely a VIP.

Sensible words! I am not sure why people are hung up on the fact AJ flew back to Sydney. He is the CEO of the company and not a magician. Him being in DXB will not sort out the issue any faster or make pax even less irritated at delays.

The best place for him is in HQ and in the same time zone as the QF crisis committee (or whatever form it takes in events like this) for briefings, media etc. This is has been standard practice for all crisis committee I have been involved in - you want the CEO in the same room.

From the posts here from people who know the inner workings - it is likely he returned to SYD in crew seats so did not impact any pax missing out on a seat.

 

[Flyerqf]

Friday's QF2 has been further delayed until 15.30. Qantas have advised that the engineering assessment is ongoing.

 

[Melburnian1]

The Saturday evening QF9 ex MEL departed DXB at 1357, five hours and 27 minutes late on Sunday 1 January 2017 with LHR arrival changed to an estimated 1730, four hours and 50 minutes (290 minutes) tardy. This should be sufficient time for the aircraft to form a punctual QF2, the 2045 hours ex LHR for DXB and SYD - at least in theory.

The again altered departure time for the Thursday 29 December QF2 from DXB means that SYD arrival on Monday 2 January is estimated at 'high noon' 1200.

The Sunday 1 January 2017 QF1738 from ISA to BNE, the 1925 hours that was in the sky at 2057 should arrive at 2259, 84 minutes late. Aircraft is B717 VH-YQT.

UPDATE: The hugely delayed QF2 (which should be VH-OQF) had yet to depart DXB at 1617 DXB time (2317 AEDT Sunday 1 January.) This plane is meant to form QF1 back to DXB and LHR ex SYd on Monday 2 January, the 1645 hours departure.

 

[Quickstatus]

Did the "longstanding" practice of offloading passengers from a on time and functional aircraft and delaying them just to onload a delayed group from a previous inoperable flight continue?

Looks like it was a one off!

The CEO staying in DXB may not have been able to expedite the situation but he could have provided some much needed media presence at the "Coal face".

If indeed he travelled jumpseat then on one level at least, he can be criticised for wanting to escape the "sinking ship" by whatever means possible. There is no upside for the CEO in this unfortunately.

Some commentary suggest that passengers should have planned a contingency into their travel and arrive a bit earlier. Certainly many frequent travellers do this.
However using the same logic it appears that the airline did not have any "shovel ready" contingencies in a travel period that is utilising ALL its aircraft, and with high passenger loads.
And while many tout the safety of the redundancies that Qantas builds into its technical operations and its culture of not operating without all the redundancies in place, it seems that this does not extend to passenger management

There are other commentary suggesting that the service recovery benefits provided by the airline were the form of hotels and meal vouchers but the tone of social media commentary by these passengers it seems that a extra few nights in DXB is not the same as being in Sydney for NYE and beyond. From previous experience such accomodation ties the passengers close to the airport and the hotel and requires them to be ready to "jump" at a moments notice. It effectively prevents them from enjoying the sights of Dubai


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VH-OQF is currently inflight operating QF2D and is expected to arrive int Post NYE fireworks SYD at 1547 2 January 2017. Over 48 hours late.

 

[Melburnian1]

VH-OQF is currently inflight operating QF2D and is expected to arrive int Post NYE fireworks SYD at 1547 2 January 2017. Over 48 hours late.

Not quite sure where you got 1547 hours on Monday 2 January as the SYD arrival time for this extremely late QF2. The QF website asserts that VH-OQF departed DXB at 1650 hours on Sunday 1 January with Monday 2 arrival being 1315 hours.

On Sunday 1, QF28 pushed back in SCL at 1456, 81 minutes late; on Monday 2, SYD arrival should be half an hour delayed at 1815.

 

[Quickstatus]

Flightaware QF2D arrival is suggested as 1547?.

FR24 suggests the aircraft has just reached the Australian mainland at Exmouth which makes it about 4000km to SYD.

So arrival should be closer to 1315 than 1547hrs

 

[Melburnian1]

Also on Monday 2 January, A333 VH-QPC on the 0835 hours SYD - AKL (QF143) took off at 1026 so it will be quite late into the NZ major population centre. It seems a bit of a waste to have an A333 flying across the Tasman and back, taking up almost an 'office standard day' when (assuming there was the demand for seats) it could replace an A332 on one of the QFi flights to southeast Asia.

QF480 from PER to MEL, the 0530 hours (A332 VH-EBJ) did not manage to take off until 0638 on 2 January so is arriving 61 minutes late at 1306. It looks like QF769, the 1305 MEL - PER will be delayed by about 45 minutes as a result.

 

[Melburnian1]

The first QF USA transcontinental flight of 2017 got off to a typically late start with QF11 on 1 January 2017 departing LAX 133 minutes late at 1033 hours, arriving JFK at 1818, 108 late.

This B744 flight then operated from JFK back to LAX, but unfortunately lost time on the ground with departure at 2023 instead of 1800 (143 minutes tardy) and forecast arrival at 2320, a very similar 145 minutes behind schedule. The QF website is showing westbound (Oz-bound) LAX departures as all on time (QF12, QF16 and QF94) but for QF16 this is impossible and for QF12 highly unlikely. On many days, QF94 is allowed to depart on time to 'protect' the two days' hence morning QF93 from MEL to LAX from late running. The latter is great for MEL-bound passengers originating in LAX, or connecting from a punctual flight from elsewhere in the USA, but not so good for those travelling on the B744 on QF12 ex JFK.

FlightStats tends to only have statistics for the last 60 flights or so. While QF11/12 transcon (USA) timeliness or lack thereof often depends on the punctuality of QF11/15/93 from Oz, is punctuality worst during the USA winter when procedures such as deicing at JFK slow operations down?

As AFF members such as Flyerqf have reminded us, the only feasible solution to this 'compounding' late running would be to have QF12 depart from JFK as an aircraft that had sat there for 26 hours, rather than be a quick turnaround requirement from QF11. This would come at the cost of relatively inefficient air frame utilisation in that it would require another B744 for the QF15-QF11-QF12-QF16 BNE - LAX - JFK and return tour of duty.

Many passengers who originate in JFK for MEL on QF must be blissfully unaware of the fairly high likelihood that they will be travelling via SYD instead of nonstop from LAX to MEL.

Domestically, QF432 (1230 hours MEL - SYD, A332 VH-EBG) took off at 1310 and is arriving about 32 late at 1427.

 

[Flyerqf]

QF 574 diverted to Adelaide this morning due to a medical emergency.

 

[jb747]

He could sit in the flight deck for take off/landing if he was travelling with his ASIC, but he would be unable to use any horizontal crew rest areas as you have to be trained in emergency procedures to use them. He could use the four economy crew seats in the premium economy galley during the flight to sit, eat and sleep (these are not certified for take off/landing though).

Actually there would be nothing stopping him from using one of the forward horizontal crew rests. It would not happen though, as they're required by the pilots for that flight, but there's no restriction on their use.

If he was allocated a coughpit jump seat (which could only happen if the Captain agreed to it), he would not be permitted to enter the cabin at any point during the flight, and would have to remain in the coughpit for the entire journey. Those rules apply to everyone.

 

[jb747]

And more importantly...QF94 pushed 2 minutes early, and arrived in Melbourne 28 minutes early.

 

[Flyerqf]

And more importantly...QF94 pushed 2 minutes early, and arrived in Melbourne 28 minutes early.

Sounds like you were flying it

 

[Quickstatus]

FlightStats tends to only have statistics for the last 60 flights or so. While QF11/12 transcon (USA) timeliness or lack thereof often depends on the punctuality of QF11/15/93 from Oz, is punctuality worst during the USA winter when procedures such as deicing at JFK slow operations down?

While the deicing season is November to March, its unusual for deicing operating to occur at NY airports even in winter due to their maritime position.
JFK should miss the predicted snow about to hit areas further north later this week

Sometimes the delays out of JFK are due to LAX ATC preventing aircraft departing for LAX from their current airports. Tonights transcontinental QF12 late departure was not due to this reason though as the LAX Arrival Delay Index is <0.5 (FR24)

Interestingly the Dec29 QF94 flew a route taking it far to the north of the Hawaiian island chain before heading south flying over BNE. FR24 then reported it as diverting to MEB (Essendon airport) on 31Dec?. Must be an error because the following QF93 departed on schedule.

 

[jb747]

Interestingly the Dec29 QF94 flew a route taking it far to the north of the Hawaiian island chain before heading south. FR24 then reported it as diverting to MEB (Essendon airport) on 31Dec?. Must be an error because the following QF93 departed on schedule.

I'm sure they could tell the difference between Essendon and Tulla.

By contrast, the next 94 was the better part of 4,000 kms south of Honolulu.

 

[Quickstatus]

I'm sure they could tell the difference between Essendon and Tulla.

By contrast, the next 94 was the better part of 4,000 kms south of Honolulu.

Even though the previous Qf94 (north of HNL) flew an extra 500 nm? compared with the next nights QF94 the elapsed duration was the same.


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Actually there would be nothing stopping him from using one of the forward horizontal crew rests. It would not happen though, as they're required by the pilots for that flight, but there's no restriction on their use.

If he was allocated a coughpit jump seat (which could only happen if the Captain agreed to it), he would not be permitted to enter the cabin at any point during the flight, and would have to remain in the coughpit for the entire journey. Those rules apply to everyone.

Could he have sat in the Red lounge upstairs (which have seatbelts)

 

[Melburnian1]

QF95 (B744 VH-OEE), the 1345 hours twice weekly from MEL to LAX was airborne at 1455 on Monday 2 January, with expected same day arrival 25 minutes behind schedule at 0925.

The A388-operated longhaul from SYD to DFW, QF7 was meant to be delayed from its 1505 scheduled mid afternoon pushback to 1545 but the estimate has changed to 1605. Interestingly VH-OQF, the aircraft that spent a mammoth number of hours in DXB while a fuel sensor was examined is the aircraft. The gate lounge numbers previously indicated that this plane was returning to DXB and LHR on this afternoon's QF1, the 1645 hours.

None of the other, non-paying passenger normal seat options possibly available to Mr Alan Joyce on that QF2 had flat beds unless I'm mistaken.

UPDATE: QF7 was airborne at 1628. Arrival has become an estimate of 70 minutes behind schedule at 1440, same day.