Qantas Delays/Cancellations

[MEL_Traveller]

...but more importantly QF operating costs must be very high compared to airlines like SQ.

I don't know if they are that much higher. The biggest cost is fuel. QF pays the same as other airlines. Catering at the various ports is the same cost for QF as others (SQ for example pays Aussie prices for food uplifted in Australia). And the same ground handling fees and airport staff fees.

Cabin crew might cost QF more, except there are London based crews on substantially less than their Aussie counterparts. And with no hotel costs in London (as it's their home base). (Hotels for pilots would be the same for both.)

But the big difference is the number of cabin crew. SQ has far more than QF. So all of those combined I dunno whether QF's costs are higher?

 

[Melburnian1]

QF653 (MEL to PER) on Sunday 25 March (A332 VH-EBA) is an expected 53 minutes late with likely arrival at 2243.

 

[Flyerqf]

QF93/94 also not operating today. Strange considering the QF95/96 flights return this week so demand for MEL-LAX must be strong.

 

[Quickstatus]

Economies of scale is something QF does not have, its small hubs are a long way away from anywhere and don't compete well against other hubs which offer hub to point services or point to point services.

 

[whatmeworry]

Yes, Y yields are low for through passengers (MEL or SYD to LHR or v.v.) as AJ implied with his comment about 'competition' but more importantly QF operating costs must be very high compared to airlines like SQ.

I was still a tad surprised because when I've been on these QF flights, the many fifth freedom passengers who for instance travel between LHR and DXB should - in theory - help to bump up yields per seat kilometre a bit.

Clearly on an annual basis loadings are higher on the Sydney route than the Melbourne route. When the MEL - PER - LHR route starts (assuming QF9 and QF10 via DXB are cancelled), seat capacity will be cut by around 50 per cent which to me says it all.

UPDATE: The anticipated delay of an hour on Sunday 26 March to QF117 became a cancellation. The timetabled 2140 hours HKG - MEL QF118 has also been cancelled.

So if QF9/10 are cancelled or moved, doesn't this mean more risk for cancellations/delays for QF1/2 without QF 9/10 backup?

 

[Melburnian1]

So if QF9/10 are cancelled or moved, doesn't this mean more risk for cancellations/delays for QF1/2 without QF 9/10 backup?

It certainly does not help as seen below.

The Friday 24 March 2017 QF9 that was diverted to MCT account adverse weather in DXB ended up departing MCT at 1803 hours on Sunday 26 March, arriving DXB at about 1901 hours where it terminated.

It then departed from DXB last night at 2048 - pretty much minimum turnaround time - as an 'originating' QF2 (this flight had been cancelled on Saturday evening from LHR to DXB) with Monday 27 March SYD arrival estimated as 1750 instead of 0610, 11 hours and 40 minutes late. This is then going to delay QF7, the (newly retimed due to overseas time changes) 1330 hours SYD - DFW that will instead depart at a projected 1945 hours. DFW same day arrival should be at 1840 instead of 1300, five and a half hours late.

Since QF8 on the new timings is not timetabled to depart DFW until 2100 hours on Monday 27 March, it should be able to commence push back punctually if this all goes to plan as twpo hours 20 minutes is - touch wood - more than sufficient time to turn around an A380.

One might think that it would have been more logical to use the QF2 arrival to delay QF1 this afternoon by a lesser amount than what will be a lengthy delay to QF7, but there are other considerations that QF has to take into account.

 

[Melburnian1]

...Cabin crew might cost QF more, except there are London based crews on substantially less than their Aussie counterparts. And with no hotel costs in London (as it's their home base)...

I bet SQ cabin crew are paid less than even LHR-based QF cabin crew. SQ pilots are highly likely to be on less than QF's, and on costs in Australia (superannuation, the costs of payroll administration, WorkCover, sick leave, recreation leave, carers' leave, bereavement leave, the costs of vehicles transporting staff to and from car parks and many other costs) are higher in Australia than Asia, although not all will apply to cabin crew based out of Australia. We have more categories of 'leave' than anywhere else on earth.

Fatigue regulations are highly likely to be tougher in Australia than in southeast Asia, hence further driving up costs.

SQ cabin crew may also spend less time in hotels than QF staff, even though as you point out the QF staff will be normally doing this at the DXB end while SQ will do this in both. Less time in hotels can lower the number of nights per annum required.

While purchasing power parity is a good measure, put simply, Australian costs are uncompetitive in so many ways. Look at how Sydney and Melbourne (which are medium sized cities, far below mega cities like Beijing, Jakarta, Manila and Shanghai in population) are consistently in the top 20 worldwide for living costs.

 

[Melburnian1]

On Sunday 26 March, QF130, the 1955 hours overnight from PVG to SYD (A333 VH-QPG) did not depart until 2124. Monday 27 arrival is estimated as 90 minutes late at 1100.

QF488 (Monday 27 0845 hours MEL - SYD) has been cancelled.

The MEL - SYD QF416 took off at 0945, about an hour late given it has a scheduled 0830 hours pushback. Arrival of A332 VH-EBV should be at roughly 1056, 61 late.

VH-EBM on QF419 (0900 hours SYD - MEL that was in the sky at 0955) should arrive at roughly 1115, 40 minutes late.

 

[Melburnian1]

On Monday 27 March due to the threat of Cyclone Debbie there are many cancellations in and out of TSV and MKY, but only three that I could see in or out of CNS (from HTI, and two the 'milk run' QantasLink flight up and down the coast) and minimal cancellations at ROK.

I posted more detailed information under the similar VA delays thread:

http://www.australianfrequentflyer....gin-australia-delays-cancellations-59773.html

This will result in a backlog of passengers, especially at TSV. Whether on say Wednesday (post cyclone) QF (and VA/JQ/TT) operate extra flights has not been announced.

QF581 (A332 VH-EBV, 1050 hours SYD - PER that took off at 1201 almost an hour late) should arrive in the western capital at 1322, 32 minutes behind schedule.

Q400 VH-QOS on the 1035 hours CBR - MEL, QF2131, did not become airborne until 1134 so arrival is not expected until 1243 hours, 53 minutes late.

 

[Melburnian1]

In addition to the Monday 27 March very lengthy delay to QF7 (SYD - DFW), the SYD - SFO B744-operated QF73 has been delayed from 1400 to an expected 1800 hours new departure time. A 1310 hours arrival time is estimated (same day) in lieu of 0930.

 

[ReLoad]

QF93/94 also not operating today. Strange considering the QF95/96 flights return this week so demand for MEL-LAX must be strong.

No wonder my upgrades on QF 12 didn't come through....

The Lax F lounge is very quiet tonight!

 

[kpc]

Just noticed that Qf 7 to Dfw today is delayed til 1945!

 

[Melburnian1]

Just noticed that Qf 7 to Dfw today is delayed til 1945!

kpc, if you read a few posts back, you'll discover that this is due to the almost 12 hour late QF2, normally ex LHR but on this occasion it originated in DXB due to QF9 having diverted from MEL to MCT (Oman) and being marooned there due to crew hours exceeding the permitted. Apologies for the long winded explanation but these delays can be traced back, and it helps set the scene.

Flyerqf and ReLoad, I did not post earlier about QF93 and QF94 not operating as these looked to be preplanned and hence not (within seven days of the schedule) 'cancellations' as such. Nonetheless it is indeed unusual for these not to operate: normally they are daily in each direction.

 

[Melburnian1]

The Sunday 26 March QF2 departed LHR nine minutes late (new schedule) at 2139, arriving DXB on Monday 27 at 0807, 37 late. It did not however depart for SYD until 1028, 73 minutes behind schedule. On Tuesday 28, SYD arrival is forecast as 0700, 50 late.

A332 VH-EBE on QF449 (1630 hours ex SYD, but not in the sky until 1716) should arrive in MEL at 1841, 36 late.

The 1905 hours from MEL to LST QF2289 has been cancelled.

 

[JessicaTam]

I bet SQ cabin crew are paid less than even LHR-based QF cabin crew. SQ pilots are highly likely to be on less than QF's, and on costs in Australia (superannuation, the costs of payroll administration, WorkCover, sick leave, recreation leave, carers' leave, bereavement leave, the costs of vehicles transporting staff to and from car parks and many other costs) are higher in Australia than Asia, although not all will apply to cabin crew based out of Australia. We have more categories of 'leave' than anywhere else on earth.

Source? And I would suggest that the amount of leave would be more relevant than the types.

Fatigue regulations are highly likely to be tougher in Australia than in southeast Asia, hence further driving up costs.

Is that necessarily a bad thing?

SQ cabin crew may also spend less time in hotels than QF staff, even though as you point out the QF staff will be normally doing this at the DXB end while SQ will do this in both. Less time in hotels can lower the number of nights per annum required.

While purchasing power parity is a good measure, put simply, Australian costs are uncompetitive in so many ways. Look at how Sydney and Melbourne (which are medium sized cities, far below mega cities like Beijing, Jakarta, Manila and Shanghai in population) are consistently in the top 20 worldwide for living costs.

 

[Melburnian1]

Source? And I would suggest that the amount of leave would be more relevant than the types....Is that necessarily a bad thing?

According to this, a typical 2015 salary for an SQ senior pilot was S$200000 - S$250000:

https://www.quora.com/How-much-do-Singapore-Airlines-pilots-earn-in-a-year

According to this, a salary for a QF A388 pilot was typically far higher, and that was in 2011, five and a half years ago:

Revealed: Qantas pilots paid more than PM

Compared with the Australian typical entitlement to 20 days' annual leave, Singapore is spartan with a maximum of 14 days, but only after eight years of service with one's employer. It implies that unlike some positions in Australia (such as in government) there is no portability of leave between employers:

http://www.mom.gov.sg/employment-practices/leave/annual-leave

All these cost differentials add to Australia's relative costs compared to overseas. There are also huge differences between maternity leave in Australia and (non-existent if I read the material correctly) in Singapore.

It is true that QCCA staff on QF aircraft such as the A388s are paid less than their longer serving colleagues employed as QAL staff.

The amount of leave is important as JessicaTam points out. The concept of 'swinging a sickie' would not be as prevalent in Singapore as in Australia.

 

[Melburnian1]

Getting back to the purpose of this thread, the delayed QF7 (the 1330 hours SYD - DFW that was to depart at an amended time of 1945 account the almost 12 hour late arrival of QF2 on Monday 27 March in SYD) has been further altered to suposedly depart at 2100. This means a same day 1945 hours arrival in DFW, which in turn will delay the Monday 27 QF8 as that is a 2100 hours scheduled departure.

UPDATE: QF7 departed SYD at 2109, 459 minutes behind time.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

According to this, a salary for a QF A388 pilot was typically far higher, and that was in 2011, five and a half years ago:



Compared with the Australian typical entitlement to 20 days' annual leave, Singapore is spartan with a maximum of 14 days, but only after eight years of service with one's employer. It implies that unlike some positions in Australia (such as in government) there is no portability of leave between employers:

Annual leave

All these cost differentials add to Australia's relative costs compared to overseas.

Aussie salaries have to be competitive in US dollars, otherwise pilots might go overseas. The salaries might look amazing, but less so when the Aussie is at .60 to the US.

Leave: most airlines of ICAO member states are on strict monthly and yearly time limits. 90-100 hours per month and 900-1000 hours per year.

Australia might have generous maternity leave, but many airlines are accommodating for crew who want to be with their families. CX and SQ for example allow cabin crew to be rostered only on same day returns... in and out same day guaranteed. And still with the same monthly and yearly hours, giving them plenty of time at home.

 

[Quickstatus]

The QF A388 diverted to MCT (VHOQA) which departed MEL on Mar24 as QF9:

Information from friend of a friend whose relative was on that flight - so trying to further explore the situation on the ground is tricky.

was on holding over DXB due to poor weather then diverted to MCT but on final approach suffered a bird strike. Landed normally but was unable to complete the journey to DXB due to necessary repairs until much later as described by Melburnian1 above.

no information re disposition of passengers or crew.

im calculating that the overall MCT ground time was around 36 hours?

 

[gapmatt]

Not a major delay, but currently sitting on QF29 to HKG this morning. The 747 was taxiing out before it had to get rolled back due to one of the doors near me not being able to be armed. Engineers came on board fiddled around for about 15mins and it now seems to be working. 25min delay, no biggie!

Time to retire this queen!