Qantas Delays/Cancellations

[Flyerqf]

I can’t tell for sure but looks like QF63 May have returned to gate again and now has a sizeable delay. OEI the aircraft this time.

 

[jb747]

There is sufficient hours to operate LAX JFK and return but they choose not to. If they need to return back to LAX there is sufficient hours to do that too.

A two man crew can be planned to a flight deck duty time of 8 hours, which the crew (and not the company) can decide to extend to 9 hours. Their overall duty period can be 11 hours, extendable to 12 hours.

A three man crew can be planned to 8:30 flight deck, with a crew optional extension. And 12 hours extendable to 14.

Total flight time over and back is about 11 hours. So, that's within what could be done 3 man. But, the total planned duty period is roughly 13 hours, so whilst that's within the time that the crew could extend to, it would not be legal to plan.

From a fatigue point of view, such a duty would be an absolute shocker, and would most likely result in crews refusing to operate. When considering fatigue you need to consider not just that day's work, but the duties that have preceded it...and this would come a day or so after a direct LA. Basically, you never manage to sleep at night in LA, so an early morning start is problematic to say the least.

 

[Himeno]

Once again, the tracking sites are confused by the QF11 issue.
It's been listed as LAX-JFK / diverted to DTW, then DTW-JFK - while some sites then list as diverted to LAX. Other sites are still claiming it will land at JFK at 8pm.
The aircraft is currently near I40 in AZ heading west.

 

[Melburnian1]

As I suggested, it was not possible for QF11 to depart BNE on 5 January at 1120 hours: it left at 1213. Same day LAX arrival is predicted as 0640, 40 late.

One again, QF63 from SYD to JNB was around three hours late with departure at 1441 this afternoon. Arrival should be at 1925 hours, 170 minutes late. This will again mean a post 2100 hours departure tonight local time from JNB for the redeye QF64 and probable SYD arrival at 1730 or later tomorrow afternoon.

 

[Flyerqf]

QF16D (Wednesday’s schedules QF16) ended up further delayed until 2200

 

[Melburnian1]

QF11 is returning to LAX.
QF16/12/94 will therefore all be on schedule tonight.

A brave prediction in the second line.

On Thursday 4 January 2018, QF12 departed LAX at 2348, 78 minutes late. Saturday 6 SYD arrival is estimated at 0929 hours, 59 minutes behind time.

QF16 looks to be at least an hour late out of LAX but as at 1920 AEDT had yet to commence pushing back.

 

[Flyerqf]

VH-OJT operating the 22 hour late Wed scheduled QF16 will ferry as QF6006 from BNE to SYD tomorrow at 10am.

It looks to be forming the QF25D (Friday night delayed QF25)

 

[Melburnian1]

B744 VH-OJT on QF16 departed LAX 65 minutes behind schedule at 0025 hours on Friday 5 January. Saturday morning BNE arrival is likely at 0805, 50 minutes late.

The QF6006 that is operating down to SYD will be formed by the slightly earlier arriving, roughly 22 hours late QF16D B744 VH-OJU, so it should be OK for a 1000 Saturday 6 ferry flight ex BNE.

On Friday 5 January, QF64 arrived ex JNB in SYD at 1753 (143 late) and then as noted above formed QF73, the 1755 hours to SFO that has just departed 175 minutes late at 2050 hours.

The 2100 hours to HNL, QF3 is forecast to depart SYD tonight an hour late.

 

[Flyerqf]

I am interested to understand why the pax on QF11 wouldn’t have stayed in Detroit and been allocated alternate flights from there (once JFK reopens) rather than go back to LAX to be in the same situation albeit further away.

 

[Melburnian1]

Flyerqf, did they travel back to LAX or were they allowed to alight in Detroit?

 

[Must...Fly!]

I am interested to understand why the pax on QF11 wouldn’t have stayed in Detroit and been allocated alternate flights from there (once JFK reopens) rather than go back to LAX to be in the same situation albeit further away.

The time needed to find a ground handler to deal with the plane/passengers and remove luggage would be problematic.

You then have an airframe and a crew stranded, and have also screwed everyone waiting for QF16 in LAX.

At least in LAX you have QF staff, QF engineers, crews you can slip in. And while the flight is returning from Detroit, you can arrange all accommodation and alternative travel arrangements.

 

[Melburnian1]

Friday 5 January's QF3 departed a little earlier than predicted by QF, at 2154 (54 late), arriving in HNL at 1054 hours, 59 minutes tardy. QF4 then commenced its journey at 1227 (62 late) so its SYD arrival tonight (Saturday 6) should be at about 1934 hours (39 minutes late).

 

[Melburnian1]

On Saturday 6 January, after arriving from LAX on the 22 hour delayed QF16D at 0521 hours in BNE, B744 VH-OJT operated down to SYD empty earlier than AFF member Flyerqf had said would be a 1000 departure. The aircraft took off from the Sunshine State capital at 0721, arriving SYD at 0952 hours.

While it cannot be helped, this is an expensive way to form the next flight.

FR24 is confused and lists this B744 as operating QF6006 from Bne down to SYD but also QF15 from BNE to LAX. Not possible.

Meanwhile QF81, the 1135 hours late morning SYD - SIN departed 67 late; arrival is estimated as 1755, 70 minutes late.

The 0955 hours BNE - NRT QF61 was 50 minutes late off its blocks. Its delayed arrival should be 46 minutes late at 1846 hours.

QF51, the 1200 'high noon' BNE - SIN is much worse with departure delayed until an expected 1355 hours, meaning arrival is unlikely to be earlier than 1945 hours, 110 late.

QF79 (MEL - NRT) departed 43 late at 1003 hours with the expected 1820 hours arrioval to be 35 minutes behind schedule.

 

[Melburnian1]

Later on 6 January, B744 VH-OJT on QF25D, the overnight delayed SYD - HND departed 15 minutes later at 1450 hours than the revised timetable, took off at 1508 but should still arrive HND at 2205 or perhaps a smidgeon before, bearing in mind the restriction that only sees such operations between 2200 and 0600 at this busy Tokyo airport.

The seasonal QF75 (1915 hours SYD to YVR) is again delayed, this time until an expected 2000 hours due to being formed by the late arriving QF64 ex JNB. The latter should arrive in the mainland harbour city (at gate) at 1807 hours, 157 minutes late.

Friday 5's QF11 departed LAX at 1006 hours, 106 minutes behind schedule, arriving JFK at 1816, also 106 late.

However the scheduled 1800 hours QF12 did not depart until an extremely late 2351 hours, 351 minutes tardy. LAX arrival is expected at 0255 hours on Saturday 6, 360 minutes late. Nightly lows in New York currently are minus 14 to minus 16 Celsius so operations for all forms of transport must be challenging.

QF12 from LAX to SYD is predicted to commence its pushing back at 0050 on Saturday, 140 late, with SYD arrival on Sunday 7 at 1040 hours, 110 minutes behind the eight ball.

The B789-operated QF96 is estimated to depart LAX on Saturday 'small hours' at 0050, 75 minutes tardy with MEL arrival forecast for 1115 hours on Sunday 7, 65 late.

The Friday very late night QF16 (LAX - BNE) is showing as on time, presumably to try to eliminate delay to the Sunday 7 QF15 ex BNE while QF94 to MEL departed only a minute late, not unusual when QF12 from JFK is delayed.

The 'holiday extra' QF18 from LAX to SYD is predicted to depart on Saturday 6 at the shocking time of 0530 hours, 355 minutes late with SYD arrival suggested for Sunday 7 at about 1520 mid afternoon in lieu of the timetabled mid morning 0935 hours.

This gives one the impression that QF18 will carry connecting passengers ex the JFK-originating QF12. QF18 is not a daily runner. Travelling on QF18 would require JFK - MEL and JFK - BNE passengers to utilise a domestic QF flight after landing in SYD, adding hours to the journey.

 

[Melburnian1]

On Thursday 5 January, SQ26 from FRA to JFK diverted to little known Stewart Airport (about 130km north, code SWF) due to blizzard conditions.

Once suitable stairs were found and after a three hour on ground delay, SQ transported the 325 passengers to New York by bus.

While the circumstances may not be identical, this is a far better effort than QF's failure when an aircraft diverted to Al Ain (AAN) in the UAE recently and passengers were held on board for many hours as noted above, and not allowed to deplane.

It just shows what an efficient airline like SQ can achieve in challenging circumstances.

 

[jb747]

Different country, rules and situation. Perhaps you should look at the case where SQ diverted to Baku.

Actually, I'm much more interested in the choice of airport....

 

[JessicaTam]

Different country, rules and situation. Perhaps you should look at the case where SQ diverted to Baku.

Actually, I'm much more interested in the choice of airport....

Give me a return to LAX over 30 hours in Baku any day!

 

[Melburnian1]

Interestingly, the Baku SQ diversion was four years ago -6 January, 2014.

Perhaps SQ learnt from this poorly handled incident?

In contrast, as others commented, QF appears to have learnt little or nothing from the Middle Eastern incident of a year ago when among other occurrences, the QF CEO was given preferential treatment to depart DXB as quickly as possible, something that at the time if I recall went down exceedingly badly.

 

[jb747]

Interestingly, the Baku SQ diversion was four years ago -6 January, 2014.

Perhaps SQ learnt from this poorly handled incident?

If they went to Baku tomorrow, exactly the same thing would happen. Mind you, with the issue they had, I would have chosen the much closer Ashgabat.

In contrast, as others commented, QF appears to have learnt little or nothing from the Middle Eastern incident of a year ago when among other occurrences, the QF CEO was given preferential treatment to depart DXB as quickly as possible, something that at the time if I recall went down exceedingly badly.

Yes, it was made a big event, but that wasn't the intention. All of the passengers were moved from one aircraft to another, at a time when it was believed that both would be able to depart within an hour or two. The fact that #2 subsequently played up again isn't really something that you can account for in your planning. It was serviceable at the time the decision was made.

Al Ain will be a s**t fight if you get stuck there...but it beats the proverbial out of running out of essence. Dubai has a nasty habit of closing the airport, even though Cat II/III. Dubai world fills so quickly that if you aren't one of the first to divert, you won't be able to go there. That starts to leave rather less attractive options. I'll admit that none of us will be sorry to see the back end of the place.

 

[Melburnian1]

Enjoy the 2018 return to Singapore jb747 assuming that you will fly there and not restrict yourself to the LAX routes.