Qantas Delays/Cancellations

[jb747]

A Saturday 25 January report in 'The Weekend Australian' quotes a Qantas spokesman saying that QF9 PER - LHR is cayying between 10 and 30 fewer passengers than (full complement) due to the forced via Afghanistan overfly situation (because of Iranian problems).) This is far less severe than what had been the original offloading prediction of 90 passengers.

If they were offloading passengers, you'd expect the aircraft would be departing at MTOW. But it isn't. There is absolutely zero point to offloading, or reducing the load, and then having extra weight available.

Sounds like spin to me.

 

[Melburnian1]

The delayed QF8 arrived at its gate in SYD at 2007 hours on Saturday 25 January.

QF7008 on the same route (AKL to SYD) arrived at gate exactly an hour later. An expensive (and time consuming) way to convey passengers but as an AFF avaitor explained above, for whatever reason QFi lacked an A380 cabin crew for the onward leg AKL to SYD.

QF55 from BNE to LAX has been further delayed with pushback expected at 2345 late tonight, 190 late. Again, I may have omitted something but the B789 that's just arrived in SYD may have to 'ferry' up to BNE for 'the 55.' If the delay balloons out much more, QF56 on Saturday night from LAX back across the Pacific to sunny BNE may depart late.

 

[SeatBackForward]

The delayed QF8 arrived at its gate in SYD at 2007 hours on Saturday 25 January.

QF7008 on the same route (AKL to SYD) arrived at gate exactly an hour later.

Yep, about to stop at gate. FINALLY!

 

[Melburnian1]

Yep, about to stop at gate. FINALLY!

There is often a silver lining to such delays. You've arrived at night, and will either be so tired that you'll want to hit the sack almost as soon as you walk in to your residence, or alternatively, after an hour to wind down you should be able to sleep well.

 

[SeatBackForward]

There is often a silver lining to such delays. You've arrived at night, and will either be so tired that you'll want to hit the sack almost as soon as you walk in to your residence, or alternatively, after an hour to wind down you should be able to sleep well.

And SYD is quiet, almost eerily.

And tip for customs lines. Don't just follow the longest queue!

 

[Melburnian1]

B789 VH-ZND was airborne from SYD as empty ('ferry') flight QF6020, bound for BNE on Saturday 25 January to form delayed QF55 to LAX. This was a very quick turnaround in SYD from QF7008 that as noted above had arrived from AKL conveying delayed QF8 passengers. Hard to imagine that the plane was properly cleaned in such a short time.

I've never seen any including on flights in the tropics but crumbs left untouched by harried cleaners must eventually attract coughroaches and the like that seem to smell food sources a proverbial kilometre away.

 

[Quickstatus]

Ok thanks
1hr pre and 30 min post

planned departure DFW = 0145 UTC
so clock starts 0045UTC.

arrival into NAN 1510 UTC
departed NAN 1712 UTC

At this point of departure from NAN at 1712 UTC, pilot hours = 1hr + 15hr27min = 16hr27min
That leaves 3hr 33 min left on the clock (assuming 20hrs is the absolute hard limit)
Take away 30min for post flight at the other end. That leaves 3hr3min to arrive into BNE.
NAN-BNE is usually 3hr50min
BNE would have been impossible from the start.
They were short of around 45min but assuming no delays at BNE.

Greatcircle
NAN-AKL = 1161nm
NAN-BNE = 1465nm (+304nm)
NAN-SYD = 1712nm (+247nm)

Planned departure from DFW 0145 UTC and arrival at AKL 2006UTC = 18hr21min
Add in 1hr30min for pre and post = 19hr51min for DFW-NAN-AKL

Im assuming they were legal into AKL

Did they decide to head for AKL before or after departure from NAN?

.......

B789 VH-ZND Hard to imagine that the plane was properly cleaned in such a short time.

The short ground time in SYD could be added to the ground time in BNE before QF55 BNE-LAX as no passengers were on the SYD-BNE ferry. Do a bit in SYD and do the rest in BNE?

 

[JohnPhelan]

Did they decide to head for AKL before or after departure from NAN?

According to SeatBackForward, it must have been after departure from NAN, as the passengers were originally told they were flying to BNE. Then he says 30 minutes after take-off from NAN, they were told the destination had changed to AKL.

 

[Quickstatus]

If they were offloading passengers, you'd expect the aircraft would be departing at MTOW. But it isn't. There is absolutely zero point to offloading, or reducing the load, and then having extra weight available.

Sounds like spin to me.

Because fuel on board already at maximum?

 

[Melburnian1]

Australia Day 2020 has QF8 (A388 refurbished VH-OQK) suggested as arriving in SYD (ex DFW) at 0916 hours, 191 minutes late.

 

[jb747]

Because fuel on board already at maximum?

That’s possible. I’ll find out.

 

[jb747]

Ok thanks
1hr pre and 30 min post

planned departure DFW = 0145 UTC
so clock starts 0045UTC.

Ah, you’ve saved 45 minutes there. The timing I found had it’s planned departure as 0101 UTC, but that timing was wrong.

At this point of departure from NAN at 1712 UTC, pilot hours = 1hr + 15hr27min = 16hr27min
That leaves 3hr 33 min left on the clock (assuming 20hrs is the absolute hard limit)
Take away 30min for post flight at the other end. That leaves 3hr3min to arrive into BNE.
NAN-BNE is usually 3hr50min
BNE would have been impossible from the start.
They were short of around 45min but assuming no delays at BNE.
Planned departure from DFW 0145 UTC and arrival at AKL 2006UTC = 18hr21min
Add in 1hr30min for pre and post = 19hr51min for DFW-NAN-AKL

Im assuming they were legal into AKL

We don’t have the exact on blocks time (FR24 stops when the transponder is turned off, which is a few minutes prior), but somewhere between 19:51 and roughly 19:56. Going to Brisbane would have blown that out to about 20:20 to 20:30. Well and truly illegal.

Did they decide to head for AKL before or after departure from NAN?

The filed flight plan was to Brisbane, so it definitely changed after departure from the gate. There is no ADSB track, so we can’t see how far out they were. They may well have been looking for some form of extension from CASA that was not forthcoming. Or perhaps they were simply delayed on the ground in Nadi beyond what they could handle.

The flight was well into the time beyond which any extension is up to the crew, not the company, so they were definitely trying to get you there.

 

[Quickstatus]

I don’t recall a previous medical/ refuelling stop for QF8 resulting in an out of hours situation. The stop in NAN was < 2 hours which is about right. The delay out of DFW ate up anything they had up they sleeves

While I don’t wish it on anyone. I’m waiting for the first QF9/10 diversion to see how it plays out. it’s actually interesting that route has never had a diversion.
......

FR24 does not have AdSB data out of NAN but FA suggests this: (ADSB commenced at 1712UTC)

 

[SeatBackForward]

I don’t recall a previous medical/ refuelling stop for QF8 resulting in an out of hours situation. The stop in NAN was < 2 hours which is about right. The delay out of DFW ate up anything they had up they sleeves

While I don’t wish it on anyone. I’m waiting for the first QF9/10 diversion to see how it plays out. it’s actually interesting that route has never had a diversion.
......

FR24 does not have AdSB data out of NAN but FA suggests this: (ADSB commenced at 1712UTC)
View attachment 204613
View attachment 204614

Yep that was what the flight map was showing. Perhaps my 30min estimate was a bit off.

 

[Melburnian1]

Also on Sunday 26 January, QF11 departed SYD at 1157, 47 late with same day LAX arrival suggested as 0636, 36 late.

The SYD - JNB B744 (QF630 was off blocks 42 late at 1217 hours with arrival likely at 1710, 35 late.

 

[serfty]

Some issues with QF8 tonight (25th). I arrived into DFW from ATL before walking to Hyatt Regency DFW to find 100's of QF8 PAX queued up and more buses arriving.

 

[Quickstatus]

Yep that was what the flight map was showing. Perhaps my 30min estimate was a bit off.

No you were not off with your estimate.
The aircraft turned toward AKL about 23 min after departure.
I think a 7 min discrepancy would not be a issue to sweat about especially after an epic journey like that. However, I’ll bet the pilots would be sweating as they only had a few minutes left in their working hours limit as they landed in AKL.
Imagine if they had to go into a holding pattern or had to do a go around because of some issue at AKL.

 

[Quickstatus]

Some issues with QF8 tonight (25th). I arrived into DFW from ATL before walking to Hyatt Regency DFW to find 100's of QF8 PAX queued up and more buses arriving.

QF7 only arrived at 2014hrs into DFW. The anticipated departure is 22:45 hrs. 2.5 hours is not a lot of time for a turn around.

 

[Melburnian1]

QF7 only arrived at 2014hrs into DFW. The anticipated departure is 22:45 hrs. 2.5 hours is not a lot of time for a turn around.

It might not be 'a lot of time', but provided everything goes well (including a lack of uncooperative passengers who instead of promptly boarding are at what AFFer JohnPhelan amusingly called 'the barrrrrr...'), given that the quickest observed time for a QFi A388 turnaround has been around an hour and 38 minutes - 98 minutes - it should be achievable.

Of course, it proved me wrong. QF7 arrived at 2019 hours while QF8 did not depart DFW on 25 January until 2315 so Monday 27 arrival in SYD should be 0820 hours, 135 minutes tardy.

Sunday 26's QF7 pushed back in SYD at 1506 hours with DFW arrival estimated as 1329 hours same day, 39 behind the timetable.

 

[jb747]

Imagine if they had to go into a holding pattern or had to do a go around because of some issue at AKL.

As explained elsewhere, that would not have been an issue.