Qantas Delays/Cancellations

[Melburnian1]

Re: General Qantas Delays/Cancellations/etc. Discussion

The B744 operating QF63, the 1050 hours from SYD to JNB on Thursday 20 August 2015 did not depart until 1322. JNB arrival is expected at 1900 hours, an hour and 50 minutes late, inevitably delaying the 1910 hours QF64 back to SYD.

Once again, the QF website has yet to reflect this QF64 change.

These two flights are normally punctual. It is quite unusual to see them two hours late.

UPDATE: The QF website is showing QF64 as departing JNB at 2055 for a forecast Friday 21 August arrival in SYD at 1635. If this B744 forms the QF17 at a timetabled 1740 hours on Friday from SYD to LAX, it will be late departing; if it goes off upon arrival or forms QF25 at 2040 hours to HND, it should be on time.

 

[Melburnian1]

Re: General Qantas Delays/Cancellations/etc. Discussion

Although the Thursday 20 August QF10 arrival in MEL was only five minutes late at 2100, the return QF9 to DXB and LHR did not depart MEL until 2347, 62 minutes late and hence is expected to be 40 minutes late into DXB. However it could be on time or close to it into LHR if it manages to reduce the DXB stop duration from the allowed 125 minutes.

The delayed QF64 noted in post 1581 above did not depart JNB on Thursday 20 August until 2103 and is due in SYD this afternoon at 1645, an hour and 45 minutes late.

As a result the QF17 B744 has been delayed from 1740 until an expected 1845 in departing SYD for LAX this evening.

Once again, this shows how fairly tight turnarounds for QF's longest flights do not need a lot to delay them. Sometimes it works well but the lack of a spare, while understandable from a cost containment point of view, means that the chance of 'rolling 24 hour delays' as JohnPhelan so elegantly put it in relation to problems not so long ago on the important SYD - HKG route is often present. Fortunately QF17 has a timetabled eight hour 55 minute Friday turnaround in LAX before working QF18 back to SYD, so any minor maintenance required can hopefully be attended to in that time frame.

 

[JohnK]

Re: General Qantas Delays/Cancellations/etc. Discussion

Can someone please tell me if today's QF551 BNE-SYD has mechanical issues?

I am on QF549 and seq #86 checked in around 5:00pm. Around 5:45pm they asked for anyone on QF551 without checked luggage to come and see about earlier flight. Not long after they cancelled QF551.

 

[Melburnian1]

Re: General Qantas Delays/Cancellations/etc. Discussion

The A388 on QF7 from SYD to DFW today (Sunday 23 August 2015) has been delayed from the normal 1300 hours departure for three hours until a forecast 1600 hours. It is expected to be two and three quarter hours late arriving in DFW at 1620 and should not at this stage affect the return flight QF8.

This is unusual as the QF DFW flights are much more punctual than the LAX flights.

QF1 from SYD to DXB and LHR does not appear to be operating today (but it is not a 'cancellation' - this seems to have been prearranged.) www.theqantassource.com is not yet suggesting anything such as QF instead operating a special for a prebooked large group. It is surprising to not operate a daily service as the end of summer could be expected to be quite busy southeast bound ex LHR (both QF2 and QF10) with returning Australians.

However the QF website is not indicating any QF2 or QF10 cancellations or preplanned non-operation for the next day or two that I could quickly see.

 

[Flyerqf]

Re: General Qantas Delays/Cancellations/etc. Discussion

The A388 on QF7 from SYD to DFW today (Sunday 23 August 2015) has been delayed from the normal 1300 hours departure for three hours until a forecast 1600 hours. It is expected to be two and three quarter hours late arriving in DFW at 1620 and should not at this stage affect the return flight QF8.

This is unusual as the QF DFW flights are much more punctual than the LAX flights.

QF1 from SYD to DXB and LHR does not appear to be operating today (but it is not a 'cancellation' - this seems to have been prearranged.) www.theqantassource.com is not yet suggesting anything such as QF instead operating a special for a prebooked large group. It is surprising to not operate a daily service as the end of summer could be expected to be quite busy southeast bound ex LHR (both QF2 and QF10) with returning Australians.

However the QF website is not indicating any QF2 or QF10 cancellations or preplanned non-operation for the next day or two that I could quickly see.

QF6051 is operating SYD-BNE-DXB in lieu of QF1.

 

[docjames]

Re: General Qantas Delays/Cancellations/etc. Discussion

QF6051 is operating SYD-BNE-DXB in lieu of QF1.

Any ideas why?

Assume a largish group - the brethren again?

 

[Melburnian1]

Re: General Qantas Delays/Cancellations/etc. Discussion

The delayed QF7 did not depart from SYD until 1640 today.

 

[Flyerqf]

Re: General Qantas Delays/Cancellations/etc. Discussion

Any ideas why?

Assume a largish group - the brethren again?

Yes, quite likely.

there is another A380 charter out of BNE to LAX tomorrow.

QF11 will be operated by a 744 to free up the 388 for this service.

 

[Melburnian1]

Re: General Qantas Delays/Cancellations/etc. Discussion

This morning, on the SYD to MEL route two of the first 11 flights on Monday 24 August 2015 were cancelled: QF495, the 0615 hours departure and QF461, the 0845 hours.

It's all very well to promote basically a 15 minute frequency (although there was not an 0815 hours departure scheduled) between 0600 and 0900 but in reality presumably due to insufficient bookings, the SYD - MEL - SYD route has a high rate of cancellations.

If Sydney Buses, Yarra Trams in Melbourne, Sydney Trains or Metro (trains in Melbourne) had a close to 20 per cent cancellation rate in the Monday morning peak, there would be much anger (and as a side issue more relevant to surface transport, even worse overcrowding), but Australia's domestic airlines seem to get away with it. While it varies from day to day, if QF or other domestic airlines do not operate all these timetabled flights and there is no genuine weather related or other operational reason there is just a whiff of 'bait advertising' about it.

The flight cancellation rate can be as high as five per cent overall in a month, which is extraordinarily high.

 

[Melburnian1]

Re: General Qantas Delays/Cancellations/etc. Discussion

With the severe weather in parts of NSW (this morning in the Port Kembla area, which SYD to MEL flights are avoiding and therefore having to track an unusual way out to sea and then west via the Royal National Park, and yesterday, when there was a tornado at DBO), QF2042, the 1725 hours from SYD to DBO was cancelled yesterday (Monday 24 August 2015) as was its return flight QF2043, the last of the night at a timetabled departure of 1855. However flights seem back to normal on today (Tuesday 25 August.)

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Re: General Qantas Delays/Cancellations/etc. Discussion

This morning, on the SYD to MEL route two of the first 11 flights on Monday 24 August 2015 were cancelled: QF495, the 0615 hours departure and QF461, the 0845 hours.

It's all very well to promote basically a 15 minute frequency (although there was not an 0815 hours departure scheduled) between 0600 and 0900 but in reality presumably due to insufficient bookings, the SYD - MEL - SYD route has a high rate of cancellations.

If Sydney Buses, Yarra Trams in Melbourne, Sydney Trains or Metro (trains in Melbourne) had a close to 20 per cent cancellation rate in the Monday morning peak, there would be much anger (and as a side issue more relevant to surface transport, even worse overcrowding), but Australia's domestic airlines seem to get away with it. While it varies from day to day, if QF or other domestic airlines do not operate all these timetabled flights and there is no genuine weather related or other operational reason there is just a whiff of 'bait advertising' about it.

The flight cancellation rate can be as high as five per cent overall in a month, which is extraordinarily high.

Are you sure it is due to insufficient bookings? And not due to ATC congestion for example?

Personally - I think 15 minute frequencies are totally unnecessary and bad for the environment. I don't believe anyone is so important that they can't leave for a meeting in SYD or MEL 15 minutes earlier, or 15 minutes later (or even half and hour earlier/later).

I'd rather see bigger planes, higher density, less frequency... less fuel wasted waiting in hold patterns both in the air and on the ground.

 

[Melburnian1]

Re: General Qantas Delays/Cancellations/etc. Discussion

One presumes that QF and other airlines obtain a slot and timetable their flights accordingly. As you may know MEL_Traveller, there is a SYD movement cap of 80 an hour and it is further complicated by an additional restriction of no more than 20 or 25 movements per quarter hour. I gather that the latter can lead to some perverse outcomes such as the overall number of movements in an hour being 75 but planes having to wait until a quarter hour ticks over to land or depart (and, as you suggest, possible additional time spent in a holding pattern or lined up, or back at the gate.)

However, that is of little interest to passengers - the flights were advertised, bookings accepted and as far as patrons are concerned, that's the offer made (in this case) by QF to passengers.

VA also has a mostly 15 minute frequency during the peaks, but overall operates fewer MEL - SYD flights than market share leader QF.

Interestingly, QF has swung in the opposite direction to which you'd like to see hasn't it? The 767s are no more and (happy to be corrected) there are fewer widebody flights than previously on MEL - SYD - MEL with more B738s. Presumably QF wants to match (or exceed) VA"s frequencies even though higher capacity planes might be more efficient and less labour intensive.

 

[Melburnian1]

Re: General Qantas Delays/Cancellations/etc. Discussion

Just when I thought it was all running like clockwork, QF93 from MEL to LAX on Tuesday 25 August departed at 1152, two hours and two minutes late. It should be 100 minutes late at its destination, a gain of 42 minutes. VH-OQL is doing the honours.

 

[Boris spatsky]

Re: General Qantas Delays/Cancellations/etc. Discussion

One presumes that QF and other airlines obtain a slot and timetable their flights accordingly. As you may know MEL_Traveller, there is a SYD movement cap of 80 an hour and it is further complicated by an additional restriction of no more than 20 or 25 movements per quarter hour. I gather that the latter can lead to some perverse outcomes such as the overall number of movements in an hour being 75 but planes having to wait until a quarter hour ticks over to land or depart (and, as you suggest, possible additional time spent in a holding pattern or lined up, or back at the gate.)

However, that is of little interest to passengers - the flights were advertised, bookings accepted and as far as patrons are concerned, that's the offer made (in this case) by QF to passengers.

Slots in Oz are issued sometimes minutes before departure, not weeks or months. The airlines have to work the slots into their timetable, and can swap slots between flights they are operating on the day.

During periods of bad weather or severe congestion, a slot could be up to three hours after planned departure. In this instance the flight normally gets cancelled.

This applies to all airlines in Oz. If you have an issue with it, then Airservices is the one to complain to. The airlines can't do much about it.

 

[Melburnian1]

Re: General Qantas Delays/Cancellations/etc. Discussion

True, Boris spatsky, an airline might not be able to do 'anything about it' immediately.

However MEL_Traveller's point about four per hour MEL - SYD - MEL peak period flight frequencies (by both VA and QF) essentially adding to congestion (yet being advertised to passengers as timetabled) is a good one.

No one expects that VA and QF could come to an agreement (which would fall foul of the ACCC and be regarded as 'collusion') but it may make sense for both to recognise that fairly often SYD (and even, increasingly MEL as jb747 pointed out in another thread) have difficulty coping with eight scheduled flights in, and the same number out, per hour at the busiest times that are bound for or arriving from just one destination (our busiest domestic airline route.) Hence a longer term solution may be more widebody aircraft.

VA and QF's response might be 'well if we free up slots by using more widebodies on this route, the released slots will simply be taken by another airline, and we'll suffer reduced profits and volumes.'

I do not like transport operators of any mode to advertise a service that they often cannot deliver, or choose not to. Notably, some surface transport operators in Australia, UK and elsewhere incur monetary penalties if they do not provide the advertised frequency or run it on time to an agreed variance, unless extenuating circumstances are shown.

While it's been previously discussed on AFF and really a matter for another thread, perhaps it is time for EU261 or similar to be the case in Oz, even though the airlines would lobby hard that it not be introduced. I agree though that if some of the difficulty is caused by a government regulator, that is an important issue that would have to be worked through.

If our politicians had vision they'd be facilitating the building of a high speed rail east coast network.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Re: General Qantas Delays/Cancellations/etc. Discussion

I do not like transport operators of any mode to advertise a service that they often cannot deliver, or choose not to. Notably, some surface transport operators in Australia, UK and elsewhere incur monetary penalties if they do not provide the advertised frequency or run it on time to an agreed variance, unless extenuating circumstances are shown.

While it's been previously discussed on AFF and really a matter for another thread, perhaps it is time for EU261 or similar to be the case in Oz, even though the airlines would lobby hard that it not be introduced. I agree though that if some of the difficulty is caused by a government regulator, that is an important issue that would have to be worked through.

If our politicians had vision they'd be facilitating the building of a high speed rail east coast network.

Worth noting that in all likelihood, something like EU261 probably wouldn't apply in cases such as the ones you have been mentioning for domestic travel. A flight cancellation with reaccommodation 15 or 30 minutes later would fall outside the guidelines for compensation.

 

[Melburnian1]

Re: General Qantas Delays/Cancellations/etc. Discussion

QF772 from PER to MEL (B737 VH-XZI, so unlikely to have many AFFers on board since many with either QF or VA prefer the A330s) is approaching MEL and should be at the gate by 1800, two hours and 40 minutes late. In turn QF773 back to PER has been delayed from 1700 to 1830 in its departure, although perhaps that may in reality be 1840 or even a tad later.

QF998 from PHE to MEL departed 49 minutes late this morning (Tuesday 25 August 2015) but diverted to PER where it spent from 1204 to 1253 (albeit with an aircraft change as noted below.) It should be in MEL at 1825, three hours and 20 minutes late. It appears to be forming the 1930 hours QF464 to SYD (in plenty of time - all things going well) so whether due to QF intelligently changing MEL rotations at short notice or the slightly lesser demands of midweek rotations, thankfully its tardiness is not looking like causing further delays. Of course passengers with connections to HBA and the like would be affected, but at least not other flights. VH-XZM, another B738, is the aircraft from PER to MEL. The QANTAS Source | notes that the PHE - PER sector this morning was operated by a different aircraft, VH-VZY but does not comment why.

This strikes me as very quick work in transferring passengers and presumably their luggage: 49 minutes is good going, so hats off to QFd. I do not know how much notice QFd's PER staff had of this diversion and substitution.

 

[mannej]

Re: General Qantas Delays/Cancellations/etc. Discussion

772 was a medical diversion according to local media sources.

 

[docjames]

Re: General Qantas Delays/Cancellations/etc. Discussion

Re: 15 minute discussion, bear in mid there are two "peak hours" per day where the airlines could use larger aircraft, but the aircraft need to be active all day to make any money.

So 4x 738s spread at 15mins allows these aircraft to be used over the rest of the network over the rest of the day which may be more economic overall for the airline and hence passengers than having full A330s at 30 min intervals but idle or half empty for the rest of the day.

 

[Melburnian1]

Re: General Qantas Delays/Cancellations/etc. Discussion

QF10 on Tuesday 25 August 2015 departed LHR three minutes early and was 20 minutes early into DXB at 2305. However it did not depart until 0340 this morning, two hours and five minutes late, and hence is not arriving MEL until a suggested 2300 hours this evening (Wed 26 August) instead of 2055.

The QF website suggests that the returning QF9 will be delayed from 2255 Wednesday to 0030 on Thursday 27 August morning but based on previous observed turnarounds, about an 0045 departure may be a little more likely (as jb747 reminds us, that is without any 'issues.') This flight is highly likely to be late into LHR.

Meanwhile, QF1 this evening (Wed 25 Aug) did not depart SYD until 1657, 57 minutes late. With a bit of luck it may pick up some or most of this time.