Qantas Delays/Cancellations

[Mattg]

I'm currently in the Qantas lounge in CBR. Many of the SYD flights are delayed, and one is cancelled. Should be an interesting afternoon...

 

[Melburnian1]

Mattg, apart from a flight such as QF1486, the 1630 hours from CBR to SYD that has been cancelled, the worst delay seems to be to QF1422 that has been delayed almost four hours in its departure from 1350 to 1745 while any passengers boked on it and unable to transfer to other flights watch two other QF departures depart before them for SYD.

The train is quicker than being delayed four hours on a flight!

Although I have travelled on the route a small number of times, I have never ascertained whether many CBR - SYD - CBR passengers are connecting to other interstate, NSW country or international flights because the relatively short hop and often high fare for a small number of kilometres means that for all but the most time sensitive travellers (such as public servants or businessmen or women with two or three appointments in the other capital) it makes more sense to use the train, drive or even (yuk!) use the bus.

The statistics from BITRE indicate fewer passengers being carried on this air route, possibly due to sensible Federal Government reductions in travel - after all, in some cases, a video conference, Skype or even phone (conference?) calls can be a substitute - not always perfect but an option nonetheless. The Federal Government (despite the hostile and uncooperative Senate) is particularly keen to reduce the burgeoning Federal deficit so air travel on this route (unless connecting to or from elsewhere) should be a prime target for expenditure reduction.

 

[Mattg]

QF1422 keeps getting pushed back and back. The aircraft was late arriving in CBR, then an oil leak was discovered. Initial repair work didn't fix it, so the dash 8 has been towed back to the hangar for now. Departure time has been revised about half a dozen times in the meantime.

Luckily, I'm on a different flight.

 

[Melburnian1]

Departure of the delayed QF7 from SYD to DFW has realistically been published as now 1745 (Sunday 30 August 2015) as QF2D was on blocks at 1545, so two hours is a very realistic turnaround (all being well) that on occasion QF has bettered by about a quarter of an hour. At this stage, QF7 should not delay Sunday evening's QF8 from DFW to SYD as the aircraft should still be in DFW for more than four hours (again, assuming no sudden adverse discoveries by tech crew or the engineers.)

mattg, it sounds like these Sunday afternoon flights are well loaded as you are implying that passengers are affected and have not all been moved to other CBR to SYD departures.

UPDATE: The delayed QF7 (VH-OQI) departed SYD at 1819, five hours and 19 minutes late with DFW same day arrival slated for 1835 hours, exactly five hours late. That will be in excess of two and a half days' almost continuous flights, punctuated only by minimum stops in DXB (twice), LHR and SYD after Friday's delayed afternoon departure from MEL for DXB.

 

[SeatBackForward]

QF2 was diverted to Perth this morning. In addition to the delays out of LHR and DXB..

 

[Melburnian1]

Thank you SeatBackForward. The Saturday night (29 August 2015) QF2 had landed in DXB 19 minutes early at 0711 on Sunday 30 August, but then did not take off for SYD until 1230, three hours and 15 minutes late.

Perhaps crew hours being exceeded should the flight have gone on to SYD is the diversion reason to PER, where it is not now due to depart until 1301 WST this afternpoon, possibly waiting for cabin and tech crew to be flown over from SYD. It is then expected in SYD at 1840 hours tonight. It would be interesting to know if any passengers (especially those with hand luggage only) were allowed to deplane in PER and be rebooked on a domestic flight that may get them a little earlier to SYD, BNE, ADL, CNS or wherever.

Tonight's QF1 is delayed in its departure from 1600 hours to a forecast 2200, six hours late, with eventual Tuesday 1 September arrival in LHR suggested as 1145, meaning if this comes to be so then Tuesday's QF10 will be late departing as that flight is timetabled to leave LHR at 1330.

Then there is a fair chance that QF9 on Wednesday 2 September ex MEL will be late departing for DXB and LHR, but that obviously is a while off and very much depends on whether the earlier flights can pick up time enroute or by reducing stop duration in DXB and LHR.

'Rolling delays', indeed, JohnPhelan, although thankfully not '24 hours' - but still bad and of a scale that results in passengers missing air or rail connections.

The poor QF 'station' (a term borrowed from railways) manager in LHR can have the 'pleasure' of starting his September with more late flights. AS it is a matter of public record that the London Heathrow airport management has previously asked QF in respect of previous months' timekeeping why so many flights are more than 15 minutes late (and some way above that), the manager may well be compiling a further list of excuses.

 

[Flyerqf]

Thank you SeatBackForward. The Saturday night (29 August 2015) QF2 had landed in DXB 19 minutes early at 0711 on Sunday 30 August, but then did not take off for SYD until 1230, three hours and 15 minutes late.

Perhaps crew hours being exceeded should the flight have gone on to SYD is the diversion reason to PER, where it is not now due to depart until 1301 WST this afternpoon, possibly waiting for cabin and tech crew to be flown over from SYD. It is then expected in SYD at 1840 hours tonight. It would be interesting to know if any passengers (especially those with hand luggage only) were allowed to deplane in PER and be rebooked on a domestic flight that may get them a little earlier to SYD, BNE, ADL, CNS or wherever.

Tonight's QF1 is delayed in its departure from 1600 hours to a forecast 2200, six hours late, with eventual Tuesday 1 September arrival in LHR suggested as 1145, meaning if this comes to be so then Tuesday's QF10 will be late departing as that flight is timetabled to leave LHR at 1330.

Then there is a fair chance that QF9 on Wednesday 2 September ex MEL will be late departing for DXB and LHR, but that obviously is a while off and very much depends on whether the earlier flights can pick up time enroute or by reducing stop duration in DXB and LHR.

'Rolling delays', indeed, JohnPhelan, although thankfully not '24 hours' - but still bad and of a scale that results in passengers missing air or rail connections.

The poor QF 'station' (a term borrowed from railways) manager in LHR can have the 'pleasure' of starting his September with more late flights. AS it is a matter of public record that the London Heathrow airport management has previously asked QF in respect of previous months' timekeeping why so many flights are more than 15 minutes late (and some way above that), the manager may well be compiling a further list of excuses.

Diversion was due to technical fault. All passengers were put in hotels and put on earlier flights where possible.

 

[Melburnian1]

Thank you Flyerqf. A technical fault that sounds like it quickly led to the crew being 'out of hours', which from memory jb747 said is '20 hours including pre flight preparation and post flight paperwork.'

The delayed QF2D sitting in PER will now depart there at 1401, an hour later than previously thought for a 1945 hours arrival this evening in SYD. The returning QF1(D?) tonight to DXB and LHR is still showing as leaving SYD at 2200.

Two and a quarter hours is an achievable turnaround in SYD (provided, as jb747 keeps reminding us, that nothing untoward occurs).

 

[Melburnian1]

A388 VH-OQD, the delayed QF2D in PER keeps getting later. It is now supposedly departing PER at 1500 for a 2040 hours SYD arrival this evening, meaning that the return QF1 to DXB and LHR will be unable to depart until at least 2225, although the QF website still suggests 2200 hours. For those in SYD with F or J lounge access, this means not just a pleasant lunch but a nice dinner and evening drinks, but even that wears off after a while if a businessman or woman has an appointment that has to be kept in London and they don't end up being in "The City' until 1500 in the afternoon instead of 0900.

The continual amendments to departure time may suggest that further engineering related problems have been detected, although perhaps it is something as simple as crew not being available in sufficient number.

If it continues to change much more, the A388 will not have time to form QF1 ex SYD tonight before the curfew commences at 2300 hours.

In turn, QF10 from LHR to DXB and MEL departing on Tuesday 1 September is pretty much certain to be late, and maybe QF9 on Wednesday 2 September ex MEL.

Presumably there are many constraints why QF is unable to turn this A388 around in PER to save time and fly to DXB and LHR, as freight would be on board for SYD (and much has to be collected in SYD) and food and drinks are prepared and carts loaded or unloaded in SYD not PER, so even if QF was prepared to send passengers and crew on a special flight plus some on normally timetabled flights from SYD to PER and the crew remained 'within permitted hours', that 'option' would not be feasible.

Once again this demonstrates the immense difficulty that a carrier like QF with little or no spare aircraft of the size required faces when flights are suddenly (and unpredictably) delayed.

In such circumstances do any AFFers ever observe other passengers losing their cool with lounge staff, or generally at checkin or when boarding, or do passengers just either keep a straight face or look a tad peeved or glum but keep their mouths shut?

UPDATE: Just before 1700 hours WST (almost 1900 hours AEST), VH-OQD remains in PER. I am not from the QF operations department but suggest that QF2 across to SYD and QF1 may well be cancelled this evening. Time will tell...

 

[Melburnian1]

QF''s website suddenly claims that the delayed QF2D will depart PER at 1700 and arrive SYD tonight at 2215, which seems a very fast trip: three hours 15 minutes - is that a mistake, notwithstanding that the winds can assist an eastbound flight?

This afternoon's (Monday 31 August) QF1 from SYD will now depart at 0700 tomorrow morning (Tuesday) instead of 1600 hours this afternoon (15 hours late) with the DXB stop from 1500 to 1635 on Tuesday and LHR arrival on Tuesday night at a suggested 2115 hours, 14 hours and 20 minutes late.

The Tuesday 1 September 2015 QF10 from LHR is shown as departing at 1545, only two and a quarter hours late with claimed arrival in MEL on Wednesday 2 September at 2135, just 40 minutes late. Presumably it is being formed by the QF9 1350 hours arrival not the QF1 (late) arrival.

QF2 that evening (Tuesday) is shown as forecast to be delayed in its LHR departure from 2125 to 2310 hours with other times (arrival and departure in DXB and arrival in SYD) not yet adjusted by the website coordinator.

UPDATE: The QF website claimed that QF2D departed PER at 1712 hours local WA time (and it may well have, briefly) but for whatever reason unless www.flightradar24.com has some data problems, the aircraft seems to be still sitting on the tarmac at PER.

Perhaps 'the delegate' has declined permission for it to arrive in SYD after curfew because it does not satisfy the preconditions. Here is an example of a report to Federal Parliament with some flights that were granted a dispensation from curfew and some that were not:

https://infrastructure.gov.au/aviat...ationReports/2014/files/Webreport_08_2014.pdf

Here are the guidelines for enforcing the curfew versus granting a dispensation for a particular flight:

https://infrastructure.gov.au/aviat...ews/SydneyAirport/DispensationGuidelines.aspx

FURTHER UPDATE: QF2D has been rescheduled for an 1830 hours departure ex PER tonight for a most unusual 0110 hours arrival in SYD on Tuesday 1 September, so it looks like a dispensation has been granted even though I struggle to see how the preconditions have been met, especially since Flyerqf informed us that many passengers were transferred on Monday to domestic flights ex PER.

 

[QFflyermelbourne]

UPDATE: The QF website claimed that QF2D departed PER at 1712 hours local WA time (and it may well have) but for whatever reason unless www.flightradar24.com has some data problems, the aircraft seems to be still sitting on the tarmac at PER.

Farcical!

yeah Melburnian1 I'm at Perth waiting for a domestic flight and looking out from the QF club there is an A380 across at international on a remote stand that doesn't appear to be going anywhere anytime soon. This could become a major problem for them.

 

[Melburnian1]

QFflyermelbourne, many thanks.

The QF website now shows the evening flight of QF2D from PER to SYD as 'cancelled.' This has only appeared in the last few minutes so your prediction may well be spot on.

Perhaps one of our Perth members such as mannej could find out a bit more. If the aircraft cannot leave PER for some time, it will indeed create major problems for QF, not that I know how well booked the various QF flights between Oz and the UK are at present - if they are close to capacity might be a major task to find seats on EK given it too may be already well booked.

 

[kalboy]

It would be interesting to know if the cancellation is due to the Sydney curfew, as a 6:30 departure wouldn't make it in time. Or is it still tech.

 

[flydoc]

Flightaware.com indicates QF1937, the daily QantasLink service from Darwin to Perth via Alice Springs, diverted to Kalgoorlie during the Alice-Perth leg this morning, and did not resume the journey to Perth. With the sole daily scheduled Qantas KGI-PER service having departed prior to the arrival of QF1937, and no indication that any other Qantas flights serviced KGI today, it seems reasonable to conclude that many passengers have had an unexpected opportunity to experience the delights of the largest centre in the WA Goldfields this afternoon and be spending tonight there before resuming their journey to Perth tomorrow.

 

[Melburnian1]

Is it possible that the incoming QF2 arriving in SYD at 0510 on Tuesday 1 September could quickly turn around and form the delayed 0700 hours forecast departure of QF1?

Unless a spare A388 was available, this would then leave QF with the problem of what to do with the 'normal' QF1 departure timetabled for 1600 hours ex SYD on Tuesday afternoon. Maybe by then the problematical A388 now in PER might be well back in SYD.

jb747, can a B747 (were one available) be substituted for an A388 between SYD - DXB - LHR or are there all sorts of reasons including crews not trained or refreshed on that aircraft type and aircraft configuration too small if the flight is heavily patronised why this cannot occur?

 

[jb747]

...can a B747 (were one available) be substituted for an A388 between SYD - DXB - LHR or are there all sorts of reasons including crews not trained or refreshed on that aircraft type and aircraft configuration too small if the flight is heavily patronised why this cannot occur?

Not readily. The crews are trained, that's not an issue. But you need to have started prepositioning them a couple of days ago.

 

[kalboy]

Re KGI Diversion
It shouldn't have been to much of an issue, Network aviation (part of QF) have two F100's that go out on a Monday night, also VA have a 737. The loadings would be less than half full from my experience.

 

[flydoc]

Thanks for noting that Kalboy. I see two Network F100s already departed KGI for PER 10 min apart mid-afternoon. Unless that is normally the case perhaps one was a dedicated replacement for QF1937

 

[Melburnian1]

I have not looked up Expert Flyer to see if there were spare seats, but a smart move might have been to fly some passengers down from SYD to MEL this evening to join QF9 which should get them to DXB and LHR eight or so hours ahead of the overnight delayed QF1.

 

[Himeno]

I have not looked up Expert Flyer to see if there were spare seats, but a smart move might have been to fly some passengers down from SYD to MEL this evening to join QF9 which should get them to DXB and LHR eight or so hours ahead of the overnight delayed QF1.

QF1
SYD-DXB F1 A0 J9 C2 D0 I0 W0 R0 T0 Y6 B2 H1 K0 M0 L0 G0 E0
SYD-LHR F4 A1 J9 C0 D0 I0 W1 R0 T0 Y9 B4 H1 K1 M0 L0 G0 E0
DXB-LHR F1 A1 J6 C0 D0 I0 W0 R0 T0 Y0 B0 H0 K0 M0 L0 S0 G0 E0

QF9
MEL-DXB F0 A0 P0 J0 C0 D0 I0 U0 W0 R0 T0 Z0 Y3 B4 H4 K4 M4 L4 S4 G0 E0
MEL-LHR F0 A0 P0 J1 C0 D0 I0 U0 W1 R0 T0 Z0 Y2 B0 H0 K0 M0 L0 G0 E0
DXB-LHR F2 A2 P0 J0 C0 D0 I0 U0 W0 R0 T0 Z0 Y0 B0 H0 K0 M0 L0 S0 G0 E0

Maybe they've already transfered people across to QF9.

I wonder if they could send pax/crew/cargo across SYD-PER on a A330 as QF1 and transfer across for a PER-DXB.