Qantas FF announcement 20 June - "biggest overhaul" in program history

[Pushka]

One thing that did make me laugh was AJ saying their F product was getting better and better. Maybe for him.

 

[DC3]

One thing that did make me laugh was AJ saying their F product was getting better and better. Maybe for him.

I thought that QF had eliminated/reduced F on some routes. I must check again.

 

[muppet]

No, no, no.

You churn a credit card earning 120,000 QFF points with $0 fee and you can redeem a business return to BKK for ~$600 that is worth close to $5,000.

I purchase $193 airfare SYD-BNE earning 800 QFF points and after 72 flights have enough for an economy return for an additional ~$600 in fuel surcharges to offset a $700 airfare.

It really makes no sense that economy and business can be so far apart in value.

And Im almost certain these changes are going to benefit the majority of QFF members. So apologies up front but I don't have any sympathy for churners or those putting millions of business spend through their credit cards. If these changes are negative then som nam na. For anyone earning QFF points the hard way and had premium redemptions in mind then this is not a good change.

You can tell I'm ecstatic. The 56,000 QFF point award has been reduced to ~50,400 QFF points + reduction in fuel surcharges. A 30%-50% award promotion discount would also be great.

So obviously we are looking at the changes from a different perspective.

But as you pointed out, with the absurd carrier charges, you’re in effect using 50,400 points to save $100.....

Use them for Business JohnK .... we beg you

 

[muppet]

One thing that did make me laugh was AJ saying their F product was getting better and better. Maybe for him.

Haha yeah its rubbish comparatively.

But to be fair, the market for F is disappearing.

The uber wealthy used to fly F but with the cost of air travel so low now, the uber wealthy fly private.

I do remember when Commonwealth Secretaries and Ministers used to fly First class until the Gillard or Abbott years when someone realised that’s insane use of public money.

 

[muppet]

I think they did well in honesty. They are hardly the only airline or institution to have introduced a deval this year, but unlike many others they structured it in a way that was moderate given the amount of time since the last across-the-board deval, they used it as an opportunity to hit a few points of contention (high surcharges, no LTP) but only so moderately that it won't end up costing shareholders, (moderately) addressed redemption availability and cost for non-status holders, balanced actual frequent flyers with those who are flying recreationally and buying 3rd party products to earn QFF points, and delivered it with some PR spin to help the medicine go down. Not a runaway success for any class of customer, but hardly an affront either.

I disagree. I think all these devaluations are inherently dishonest/unethical.

Recently we had an interest rate reduction, if bank behaved the same way as Qantas, rather than reducing the interest on term deposits, they would reduce your account balance as a means of maintaining profit.

If Qantas wants to change the structure it should reduce the amount of points you earn, not reduce the value of the existing points.

 

[33kft]

If Qantas wants to change the structure it should reduce the amount of points you earn, not reduce the value of the existing points.

How would they do that effectively? Increase the price of points bought wholesale? Not sure that would endear the program to prospective partners, it would more likely just drive them to some other program.

 

[upupandaway]

I thought the fees and charges co-pay portion of QF metal classic reward redemptions had been decreased, effective immediately?

i have a screenshotted search of SYD-CTS return in J from approx 1 month ago and again today for travel march 2020, and the co-payment is the same??? Approx AUD511, including carrier charge AUD360. Is there evidence that these fees have actually been cut, as per the changes from earlier this week?

 

[oz_mark]

I thought the fees and charges co-pay portion of QF metal classic reward redemptions had been decreased, effective immediately?

i have a screenshotted search of SYD-CTS return in J from approx 1 month ago and again today for travel march 2020, and the co-payment is the same??? Approx AUD511, including carrier charge AUD360. Is there evidence that these fees have actually been cut, as per the changes from earlier this week?

Carrier Charges on International Business will decrease on 19-Sep - the same day as the points requirement goes up.

 

[muppet]

How would they do that effectively? Increase the price of points bought wholesale? Not sure that would endear the program to prospective partners, it would more likely just drive them to some other program.

True. I guess I was primarily thinking about points Qantas issues - but you’re right, they mostly sell them externally.

It has the same effect anyway. When Qantas sends me an email saying transfer my Amex points for a 15% bonus, I just roll my eyes - they’re much more valuable as Amex points that I can transfer to CX or SQ. That will be even more so after 19 Sept.

 

[Danger]

View From the Wing from agrees with what seems to be the widespread sentiment that this announcement has been far from the biggest overhaul it's purported to be. Here's his article from 2004, the changes that he believes were the biggest: Qantas Guts its Frequent Flyer Program - View from the Wing

Wow - this is one of the top reasons that I am waiting "to achieve" LTG. I'm less than a year away based on anticipated travel. Is this benefit of LTG going ? or has it been confirmed as a typo?

It's not a typo, nor has there been any change announced. The key word on the page is "includes". Not all the benefits of Gold are listed. One of those benefits that is not listed is lounge access.

 

[jeremyaus]

I saw some where that Singapore airlines have ceased to slap excess charges for tax
Dunno why qantas is on the back step on this? Obviously $$$ in mind all the time

 

[lovetravellingoz]

No, no, no.

You churn a credit card earning 120,000 QFF points with $0 fee and you can redeem a business return to BKK for ~$600 that is worth close to $5,000.

I purchase $193 airfare SYD-BNE earning 800 QFF points and after 72 flights have enough for an economy return for an additional ~$600 in fuel surcharges to offset a $700 airfare.

It really makes no sense that economy and business can be so far apart in value.

And Im almost certain these changes are going to benefit the majority of QFF members. So apologies up front but I don't have any sympathy for churners or those putting millions of business spend through their credit cards. If these changes are negative then som nam na. For anyone earning QFF points the hard way and had premium redemptions in mind then this is not a good change.

You can tell I'm ecstatic. The 56,000 QFF point award has been reduced to ~50,400 QFF points + reduction in fuel surcharges. A 30%-50% award promotion discount would also be great.

So obviously we are looking at the changes from a different perspective.

I would hazard a guess that Qantas would make very little profit per each of your $193 flights.

Some of our insiders may wish to tell us how much per cc sign they make off the banks. I suspect profit wise it is more.

Even more probably will be from those that buy full fare economy, and even more that buy business either discount or full.

There is the value that you assign. Then the there is the value that Qantas assigns to its customers.

If you are getting less then I think that is a pretty clear sign of what value Qantas places on your business. They are profit driven and the value they assign is based on how much they can make out of you profit wise. QANTAS obviously factor in a large dose of what they believe people will tolerate.

The new changes have lowered the pain, but from what I can so far see only slightly.

Qantas could scrap all business redemptions, all business travel and remove its lucrative selling of points to banks etc. However I suspect that your complaints wpuld then rise as Qantas would just be Jetstar and all the perks and incentives would have vanished. But the $ fare will be less and no pesky business flyers to feel envious about on Qantas Budget Airlines.

 

[Max Samuels]

Exactly



Why would Qantas provide a guarantee on the utility of the points issued in the contracts, they're not that silly. Additionally, why would the bank care on how just useful the points are to their customers, as long as the points are issued and they can be used within the QFF scheme.


No it doesn't point to that, it points to them generating an increasing liability in their books from not enough QFF points not being redeemed.

Or they can do as you say, but then they just end up with a massive liability on their books.

People get so hung up on T&Cs.... think they are some kind of unbreakable contract of biblical proportions.... something that cannot be undone.... yet we have something called common law and contracts have to "reasonable" and "fair" and contracts are constantly argued in court and T&Cs are often ruled unlawful.

Remember when Jetstar's T&Cs - which we agreed to when buying a ticket - insisted on a $30 fee for using a credit card? Well eventually that was reigned in - I just don't see how anyone can categorically think this can't be reigned in either.

 

[opusman]

Recently we had an interest rate reduction, if bank behaved the same way as Qantas, rather than reducing the interest on term deposits, they would reduce your account balance as a means of maintaining profit.

Bank interest is now at or below the inflation rate so this is in effect what they are doing

 

[OATEK]

View From the Wing from agrees with what seems to be the widespread sentiment that this announcement has been far from the biggest overhaul it's purported to be. Here's his article from 2004, the changes that he believes were the biggest: Qantas Guts its Frequent Flyer Program - View from the Wing



It's not a typo, nor has there been any change announced. The key word on the page is "includes". Not all the benefits of Gold are listed. One of those benefits that is not listed is lounge access.

The Wing article says

• Upgrades can no longer be confirmed at booking — they’re day of departure only — and they’re no longer available on discount fares, either.

While this has broadly been the case on international flights (where they start allocating in the last week), on domestic flights we could generally get immediate confirmation as long as there was U Class availability. This seems to suggest that is no longer the case.

 

[Max Samuels]

The Wing article says

• Upgrades can no longer be confirmed at booking — they’re day of departure only — and they’re no longer available on discount fares, either.

While this has broadly been the case on international flights (where they start allocating in the last week), on domestic flights we could generally get immediate confirmation as long as there was U Class availability. This seems to suggest that is no longer the case.

That article was from 2004........

 

[OATEK]

That article was from 2004........

Oooops!!!

 

[Max Samuels]

Oooops!!!

Yeah - I think the point the OP was making was that Qantas already gutted its FF program 15 years ago - so this new change is hardly the "biggest" change in history

 

[OATEK]

Yeah - I think the point the OP was making was that Qantas already gutted its FF program 15 years ago - so this new change is hardly the "biggest" change in history

I blame last night's red wine!

 

[michaele]

I vaguely remember a mention of years of status being included on cards. Is this official?