Qantas Fleet Grounded 29/10

[amaroo]

That's not the case.

AFAIK, he said the grounding was one option being considered, so (by implication if nothing else) of course there was pre-planning and prior arrangements being made.

Along with weeks of legal advice - what do people expect a CEO to do:?: that's his job......

 

[straitman]

So in other words Joyce is liar, with his denials of it being pre planned.

Not tell any more (or less) lies than the unions though :!:

 

[NM]

More fuel to the fire that the grounding was premeditated.

Qantas grounding pre-planned, couriers say | News.com.au

So in other words Joyce is liar, with his denials of it being pre planned.

That's not the case.

AFAIK, he said the grounding was one option being considered, so (by implication if nothing else) of course there was pre-planning and prior arrangements being made.

My reading of the informatoion reported in the media is that the statement made by Alan Joyce was that the decision to ground the fleet was his alone, and that he did not make that decision until the morning of the grounding. I have not seen any suggestion from Qantas that the option was not under consideration prior to that day.

 

[Meggsy]

My reading of the informatoion reported in the media is that the statement made by Alan Joyce was that the decision to ground the fleet was his alone, and that he did not make that decision until the morning of the grounding. I have not seen any suggestion from Qantas that the option was not under consideration prior to that day.

Quite right. In fact Alan Joyce said this on Sunrise this morning when he openly stated that the lock out, along with other options, had all been considered and planned for as part of their contingency planning but the decision to ultimately pull the trigger was his and made on the Saturday as claimed.

 

[NM]

More fuel to the fire that the grounding was premeditated.

Qantas grounding pre-planned, couriers say | News.com.au

Shareholders, customers and employees were caught by surprise, but two drivers from Direct Couriers have added fuel to suggestions by several senators that the move was pre-planned.

Now these two courier drivers would most likely be members of which union? Now let me see, they would be transport workers, would they not? I am more surprised it took so long for the TWU to find these two courier drivers than I am about what they report.

 

[fiscal]

Quite right. In fact Alan Joyce said this on Sunrise this morning when he openly stated that the lock out, along with other options, had all been considered and planned for as part of their contingency planning but the decision to ultimately pull the trigger was his and made on the Saturday as claimed.

And a good move it was. Calling the unions bluff is paying off. Tony Sheldon's threat to incite aviation unions overseas into become involved in industrial action, is also a clear indication of the draconian attitudes that the TWU are still happy to use bully boy tactics, because they know no better.

 

[serfty]

... the TWU are still happy to use bully boy tactics, because they know no better.

I think it's more the case they are getting desperate.

Most accounts I have come across indicate the (main?) sticking point is along the lines of the unions telling the employer who they are allowed to employ, where they are allowed to employ them etc.

This is different from the standard issues over pay rates and conditions etc. for which I suspect agreement would have been close to being reached.

 

[browski]

And a good move it was. Calling the unions bluff is paying off. Tony Sheldon's threat to incite aviation unions overseas into become involved in industrial action, is also a clear indication of the draconian attitudes that the TWU are still happy to use bully boy tactics, because they know no better.

It is neither appropriate, nor accurate to describe union actions as Bully boy. It also misleads. When you negotiate from a position of weakness, you are not the bully. That title would go to those with 7 figure incomes who utilise both the strongest of legal minds and have access to both political and media influence.

 

[straitman]

It is neither appropriate, nor accurate to describe union actions as Bully boy.

I do not agree :!:

For many years I have seen how the TWU operates and not just in the aviation industry. Their actions are frequently Bully boy or worse.

 

[amaroo]

It is neither appropriate, nor accurate to describe union actions as Bully boy. It also misleads. When you negotiate from a position of weakness, you are not the bully. That title would go to those with 7 figure incomes who utilise both the strongest of legal minds and have access to both political and media influence.

I think some individuals in all unions not only earn that title they wear it with pride! When a member of any group resorts to calling colleagues scabs, rats & other names solely on the basis that they wish to continue to work - I'd call that bully boy tactic.

In regards to access to political influence - I think the unions have a PHD in that. It must give one a warm fuzzy feeling inside when you have to front up to a Senate Enquiry and be quizzed by the Chairman of the committee who just happened to have been a TWU office holder for 14 years & a card carrying member for many more!

 

[nlagalle]

It is neither appropriate, nor accurate to describe union actions as Bully boy. It also misleads. When you negotiate from a position of weakness, you are not the bully. That title would go to those with 7 figure incomes who utilise both the strongest of legal minds and have access to both political and media influence.

so how would you describe their tactics then?

 

[simongr]

It is neither appropriate, nor accurate to describe union actions as Bully boy. It also misleads. When you negotiate from a position of weakness, you are not the bully. That title would go to those with 7 figure incomes who utilise both the strongest of legal minds and have access to both political and media influence.

It always cheers me up reading your posts - always worth a chuckle in the mornings.

First up are you assuming that the unions aren't getting legal advice which is probably not accurate. Secondly "access to political and media influence"? You were referring to the Unions on that point weren't you? Given their influence over who is Prime Minister and the massive anti-QF press we have experienced over the past few years.

I tried to find salary information for the leaders of the TWU but couldnt find published accounts quickly.

 

[browski]

so how would you describe their tactics then?

(Ultimately) Futile. That's normally the end result for those in the weaker position.

 

[fiscal]

It is neither appropriate, nor accurate to describe union actions as Bully boy. It also misleads. When you negotiate from a position of weakness, you are not the bully. That title would go to those with 7 figure incomes who utilise both the strongest of legal minds and have access to both political and media influence.

Noun

1.

bullyboy - a swaggering tough; usually one acting as an agent of a political faction

When you consider that the unions are an integral arm of the ALP, and Qantas is NOT and integral part of the coalition, I say if the shoe fits....

 

[medhead]

It is neither appropriate, nor accurate to describe union actions as Bully boy. It also misleads. When you negotiate from a position of weakness, you are not the bully. That title would go to those with 7 figure incomes who utilise both the strongest of legal minds and have access to both political and media influence.

Don't worry about it, comrade! p - to you all) There are a few people here who won't be happy until we are returned to serfdom.

Maybe some of them might still be upset about the industrial relations implications of the introduction of regulations in the UK to limit the use of boys as chimney sweeps; Boys who were treated with great brutality from a young age and when they get to puberty were liable to death from testicular cancer.

Edit: I love how these union bashers are also experts on the structure of the ALP. Alan jones said it, it must be true?

Sent from my iPhone using Aust Freq Fly app so please excuse the lack of links.

 

[nlagalle]

(Ultimately) Futile. That's normally the end result for those in the weaker position.

Futile that they may be, it is also threatening and trying to use intimidation.

 

[simongr]

Maybe some of them might still be upset about the industrial relations implications of the introduction of regulations in the UK to limit the use of boys as chimney sweeps; Boys who were treated with great brutality from a young age and when they get to puberty were liable to death from testicular cancer.

I don't think the environs are even close to similar...

 

[medhead]

I don't think the environs are even close to similar...

I wasn't referring to environs, that's why I said industrial relations implications, i.e. Limiting what business owners can do to employees.

Anyway, that's getting way too serious for the intended mood of my very tongue in cheek comment.

By way of history boys as young as 4 were shoved up, sometimes hot, chimneys 7 days a week. The regulations introduced a minimum age limit of 8, required parental permission and gave them Sunday to attend church. The house of lords removed the requirement for chimney sweep masters to be licensed. Draconian stuff for business owners.


Sent from my iPhone using Aust Freq Fly app so please excuse the lack of links.

 

[amaroo]

I wasn't referring to environs, that's why I said industrial relations implications, i.e. Limiting what business owners can do to employees.

Anyway, that's getting way too serious for the intended mood of my very tongue in cheek comment.

By way of history boys as young as 4 were shoved up, sometimes hot, chimneys 7 days a week. The regulations introduced a minimum age limit of 8, required parental permission and gave them Sunday to attend church. The house of lords removed the requirement for chimney sweep masters to be licensed. Draconian stuff for business owners.


Sent from my iPhone using Aust Freq Fly app so please excuse the lack of links.

Fast forward a 150 odd years and we have 16 year olds boys being sent into roofs to install pink batts on 40+ degree days.....probably closer to 70 deg in the roof - sometimes with the same sad result

Back OT - got a giggle from the "comrade" call

 

[medhead]

Fast forward a 150 odd years and we have 16 year olds boys being sent into roofs to install pink batts on 40+ degree days.....probably closer to 70 deg in the roof - sometimes with the same sad result

Well 220 odd years but what's 70 years between friends As for the roof batts the couple of examples I've seen in papers suggest a quick death. But really these occurrences support my basic point, the employer needs to be dragged over the coals for any deaths. There are building standards why the hell were the businesses not complying with those standards. Because of dodgy employers who don't give a $&*%%# about their employees. That's when unions are good. There is no need to drag in the federal government on this either; state building standards applied long before the pink batts scheme and they'll apply long after. Exactly how have those state building codes allowed electrical cables to be run on top of roof beams, for example?

Btw this might sound like a rant, but it's not. Just using strong language to emphasis an alternative view.

Back OT - got a giggle from the "comrade" call

I'm glad. Thought that might go down like a lead balloon.


Sent from my iPhone using Aust Freq Fly app so please excuse the lack of links.