Qantas Fleet Grounded 29/10

[browski]

The difference is that Qantas (as the employer) has the right to say no. And the union has no right to demand anything - they can "ask" for whatever they want though.

Qantas (like any employer) is not a charity - its up to them who they employ and how (within the confines of the law).

You'd best hide this post. Your extremist friends believe that the Unions are in control and as such have given them the "Bully" moniker. What will happen when they realise that the the Employer has this power (and as such is the only party that has the capacity to bully).

 

[browski]

I don't understand what the unions fear! Can you tell me?

I don't get it - QF wants to grant salary increases but that's not enough for the unions.......I don't say employees as it's probably the case that most just want the money & do their job!

Just to (again) clarify the point, the issue at stake is not one of salary increase, it's about being sacked and someone from Asia employed in your role.

For the life of me, I don't know why the workers are not happy with this. It is beyond the pale that they even have the temerity and a platform to voice their displeasure. You are soooooo correct, the Workers are revolting.

 

[dfcatch]

Just to (again) clarify the point, the issue at stake is not one of salary increase, it's about being sacked and someone from Asia employed in your role.

For the life of me, I don't know why the workers are not happy with this. It is beyond the pale that they even have the temerity and a platform to voice their displeasure. You are soooooo correct, the Workers are revolting.

So I'm going to have an Asian FA on my next MEL-SYD flight?

An Asian engineer fixing the cargo door in MEL when it doesn't close properly on my next QF93 to LA?

Asian baggage handlers unloading my bags in MEL? (PLEASE, PLEASE I hope this happens!!! Anything has to be better than the hopeless mob in MEL currently)

As far as Pilots are concerned - I like Jetconnect. If QF can continue operating this route under the Jetconnect structure - great. Otherwise they will JQ it - which I will not like.

 

[nlagalle]

Just to (again) clarify the point, the issue at stake is not one of salary increase, it's about being sacked and someone from Asia employed in your role.

For the life of me, I don't know why the workers are not happy with this. It is beyond the pale that they even have the temerity and a platform to voice their displeasure. You are soooooo correct, the Workers are revolting.

I'm still wondering how this person in Asia is going to unload my bags in MEL... can you enlighten me on this one?

 

[serfty]

Just to (again) clarify the point, the issue at stake is not one of salary increase, it's about being sacked and someone from Asia employed in your role. ...

This is true, however, the choice appears to be between of a compromise in partially doing this (what AJ wants to do) and not doing it at all (as per the unions wishes).

The latter will ultimately result in the demise of QFi and then no-one will have any role.

The competition is tough.

Today If I want to fly to Europe next February (lets say Vienna) I can book on EK with one stop at DXB and get there in 24 hours for $1863 or on Qantas/BA with a stops in SIN/LHR in 27 hours for $1864.

 

[simongr]

Just to (again) clarify the point, the issue at stake is not one of salary increase, it's about being sacked and someone from Asia employed in your role.

For the life of me, I don't know why the workers are not happy with this. It is beyond the pale that they even have the temerity and a platform to voice their displeasure. You are soooooo correct, the Workers are revolting.

Can you point me in the direction of another business where the employees don't face this risk where the work is not location specific (e.g. don't point at Australian miners). Yes the workers shouldn't be happy but they should not also expect protection of their jobs just "because" - they should be working with management to work out how their jobs can be protected through efficiency and cost effective work practices.

 

[TonyHancock]

......they should be working with management to work out how their jobs can be protected through efficiency and cost effective work practices.

.....and management should be working with the "workers" to secure their jobs through efficiency, whilst using the iconic brand, to deliver a full service experience to customers.

Both sides are as bad as each other, it is lamentable. I can't see how forced arbitration will work whilst there is an "us and them" at QF, and this current situation just enforces the "us and them". Any successful negotiation will involve both sides giving something significant up. In the mean time it is just sad to see management and unions successfully devalue the QF brand and wreck the company.

Last week I spent $11k with the Virgin Group, it would have gone to QF without a thought 12 months ago. Next month it will be another $8k. I'm not one of the price sensitive customers at the moment, QF is losing me because it continues to demonstrate, through a lack of customer service, it does not want my business. You only have to look at the cynicism shown by QF management, and the absurd blustering of the union officials to see why customer service is now no longer seen as important.

 

[medhead]

.....and management should be working with the "workers" to secure their jobs through efficiency, whilst using the iconic brand, to deliver a full service experience to customers.

Both sides are as bad as each other, it is lamentable. I can't see how forced arbitration will work whilst there is an "us and them" at QF, and this current situation just enforces the "us and them". Any successful negotiation will involve both sides giving something significant up. In the mean time it is just sad to see management and unions successfully devalue the QF brand and wreck the company.

Exactly, bruvver. Balance, there should be more of it. Better be carefully because even the slightest criticism of management will have you labelled as a red under the bed, comrade.


Sent from my iPhone using Aust Freq Fly app so please excuse the lack of links.

 

[dfcatch]

Exactly, bruvver. Balance, there should be more of it. Better be carefully because even the slightest criticism of management will have you labelled as a red under the bed, comrade.


Sent from my iPhone using Aust Freq Fly app so please excuse the lack of links.

Adelaide was never going to be suitable for a People's Republic

 

[medhead]

Adelaide was never going to suitable for a People's Republic

I've heard of the people's republic of Bowden/Brompton, however, from someone I used to work with.


Sent from my iPhone using Aust Freq Fly app so please excuse the lack of links.

 

[serfty]

... Any successful negotiation will involve both sides giving something significant up. In the mean time it is just sad to see management and unions successfully devalue the QF brand and wreck the company. ...

I have posted this previously, but will repeat.

If the negotiation related purely to staples such as pay and working conditions, agreement would have been reached long ago.

No, the sticky issue is who is empowered to decide on the employment aspects of who, how and from where. It appears neither side is budging on this.

 

[straitman]

That is a gross exaggeration, especially when one of the unions reported that they were close to agreement with Qantas and wanted another 21 days to continue. Sounds like there was some negotiations going on there. Also the same media reports indicate that the unions too have said no without a counter offer. The pilots union for example demanding that Jetstar and Jetconnect pilots be paid the same as them for example. So it takes two to tango.

Which union? One union moved to arbitration themselves and Qantas pushed that button on the other 2 unions. Hardly a sign that one union wanted to keep negotiating.

You best blame your media mates for that one as it was quite widely published. (I don't recall which union)

 

[amaroo]

Just to (again) clarify the point, the issue at stake is not one of salary increase, it's about being sacked and someone from Asia employed in your role.

Just about every other worker in Australia seems to handle this everyday occurrence pretty well. Many have had their industry (forestry, dairy, textile, manufacturing, farmers - and the list goes on) eliminated or ripped apart due to regulatory change, competition, unproductive work practices & agreements.

What I want to know it what is special about Qantas employees?

For me - it's not about ALP v Libs or union bashing. If protective mechanism are seen as critical for QF workers than all Australian workers should receive the same benefit......as we all know - this ideology has only succeeded in destroying jobs, companies & economies.

Change will inevitable occur no matter what either party believe or are forced to accept by FWA.

 

[dk4]

The irony is that the Qantas Chairman's and CEO's actions may force FWA to introduce “scope clauses” into QAN workers’ contracts.

FWA made it clear that it saw Qantas management as the antagonist, in its determination, and thus is likely to need to be seen to be firm against them accordingly.

These contractual elements are very standard practice, throughout the industry in the USA, and I can see little reason for FWA not to apply an "Australian variation" of them to cover the entirety of QAN's operations and investments now.

 

[NM]

I'm still wondering how this person in Asia is going to unload my bags in MEL... can you enlighten me on this one?

They will be carried in the hold with the luggage and will open the hold from inside then unload the luggage. Then after loading the bags and freight into the hold for the departing flight, they will crawl inside and close the door behind them.

 

[ajw373]

Just to (again) clarify the point, the issue at stake is not one of salary increase, it's about being sacked and someone from Asia employed in your role.

For the life of me, I don't know why the workers are not happy with this. It is beyond the pale that they even have the temerity and a platform to voice their displeasure. You are soooooo correct, the Workers are revolting.

This is what I don't follow. The unions that are carrying on the most about offshoring are the ones who cover workers such as the baggage handlers and the LAME's these are the guys who turn the aircraft around and certify it as safe. Please pray tell are these workers going to be replaced by Asians when this is work that is done in the port where an aircraft lands? The simple answer is they won't and cannot be replaced, what is being asked of them is to come into the 21st century with their work practices, yet their unions are playing the public by making them beleive it is all about Qantas offshoring, when clearly it isn't the case.

If I am not mistaken the staff who undertake heavy maintenance of aircraft have already struck an agreement with Qantas, which is not surprising since Qantas has told them and shown them through their actions that their jobs are safe and indeed have opened new hangers in Australia for heavy maintenance in recent years. The A330 hanger in Brisbane for exmaple. So clearly they have no major issue, and surprise surprise since their agreement was struck about 12-18 months ago the issue of offshore maintenance has gone quiet.

The only ones who have the right to fear offshoring of their jobs are the pilots, though even then I seriously doubt it will happen. Indeed they carry on about Jetconnect pilots, however the simple fact remains that not 1 aussie pilot has lost their job as a result of Jet connect taking over the bulk of NZ to Aus flights. Now move to the new airline in Asia, I don't think anyone in their right mind would suggest that Australian based pilots be employed to fly say a Singapore to Hanoi flight, though yes their may be an argument for a Singapore to Perth flight, but this is a minor thing in the grand scheme of things and if the Jetconnect exmaple is anything to go by the RedQ flights will be additional not replacements for existing flights. So for the most part the jobs of Qantas pilots are safe, provided of course the unions as a whole don't bring the whole lot down, in which case every job from Joyce down is in danger.

 

[medhead]

You best blame your media mates for that one as it was quite widely published. (I don't recall which union)

Where? Because the Australian wrote "Qantas terminated conciliation talks with 2 unions and a third also opted for arbitration". That may mean that 2 unions wanted to continue negotiations. Unfortunately the article does not go on to inform that question.

Not as widely reported as you suggest if it is not in the National newspaper.


Sent from my iPhone using Aust Freq Fly app so please excuse the lack of links.

 

[dfcatch]

I've heard of the people's republic of Bowden/Brompton, however, from someone I used to work with.


Sent from my iPhone using Aust Freq Fly app so please excuse the lack of links.

In Melbourne - it's the "Peoples Republic of Moreland" - and that's what the Moreland City Councillors affectionately called it

 

[ajw373]

Where? Because the Australian wrote "Qantas terminated conciliation talks with 2 unions and a third also opted for arbitration". That may mean that 2 unions wanted to continue negotiations. Unfortunately the article does not go on to inform that question.

Of course they wanted to continue because they didn't receive what they wanted and they know if it goes to FWA they have no chance of getting what they wanted, so were trying to drag it out as long as possible. Clearly Qantas, quite rightly wants it all over and done with.

 

[medhead]

Of course they wanted to continue because they didn't receive what they wanted and they know if it goes to FWA they have no chance of getting what they wanted, so were trying to drag it out as long as possible. Clearly Qantas, quite rightly wants it all over and done with.

This contradicts your earlier post. Provide a link to these reports that you claim happened.


Sent from my iPhone using Aust Freq Fly app so please excuse the lack of links.