Qantas Fleet

[medhead]

I'm curious to know about the objection to the 9-across seating in economy. The 747s and A380s have 10-across. Even with 9-across, would there be less room per seat than the 10-across layout in the big birds? I would have thought that they'd actually use the same seats as they have with the sky beds in the A330s, 747s and A380s.

No doubt the width of the deck. If you believe wikipedia, 787 10 across is 17.3" seats. 10 across in A380/747 is at least 18" to 18.5", except for LH A380 (apparently). Even 11 across 747 is wider seating than 3-3-3 in a 787. Again if you believe wikipedia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wide-body_aircraft#Fuselage

 

[medhead]

Ok, so why do QF have zero A320's when Jetstar have an entire fleet of them?

They're completely separate airlines, don't you know.

 

[CaviAck]

I'm curious to know about the objection to the 9-across seating in economy. The 747s and A380s have 10-across. Even with 9-across, would there be less room per seat than the 10-across layout in the big birds? I would have thought that they'd actually use the same seats as they have with the sky beds in the A330s, 747s and A380s.

Lets do some maths.

The internal cabin width of the 747-8 is smaller compared to the A380, so lets use that. FAA mandates that the aisle must be a minimum 20 inches up to a height of 25 inches from the floor so we'll use that as well. The cabin width of the 748 is 6.51m minus 40 inches for the two aisles (approx 1m) and that leaves us 5.51m for 10 seats. This gives us 55.1cm of width per seat in Y.

Now for the 788/789. The cabin width is 5.50m. Minus 1m for the aisles leaving 4.5m for the seats. This gives 50cm per seat in Y. A good 5cm smaller than the 748 seats.

Also take into consideration that the entire cabin width is never fully used and is measured from the most concave part of the fuselage to the other so actual floor space is less as well, so the seats are going to be smaller than the rough maths above.

And now that I think about it google would've answered all this considering it comes up saying a 9 abreast arrangement gives less than 17" (43cm) of seat width in a 787. And compared to medhead's response that a 748 will give a seat width of at least 18" you can see why people complain. Also try flying BA's 9 abreast 787, you feel like a sardine in there, against the window I barely had room to turn and grab the food tray from the FA and I'm not exactly big either.

 

[samh004]

Ok, so why do QF have zero A320's when Jetstar have an entire fleet of them?

Pretty sure QF had the 737's before JQ even existed, and then the different fleet was probably to make sure they could pay the JQ pilots less than the QF ones, being an entirely different type, more or less. I believe there's no more 737 orders on the books, but there are a lot of A320 orders... perhaps signalling their intentions on how much they want to pay the pilots?

I would have thought that they'd actually use the same seats as they have with the sky beds in the A330s, 747s and A380s.

I wouldn't be in a rush to fly on the Skybed seats if I had the money for the tickets, but the new suites look very appealing!

 

[Mr_Orange]

I'm curious to know about the objection to the 9-across seating in economy. The 747s and A380s have 10-across. Even with 9-across, would there be less room per seat than the 10-across layout in the big birds? I would have thought that they'd actually use the same seats as they have with the sky beds in the A330s, 747s and A380s.

The 747s and A380s are much wider birds, where 10 across does not equal 17" wide seats.

 

[Melburnian1]

Wiki suggests that nine across in an A333 gives slightly narrower seats than the same economy class configuration for a B789.

When I have travelled in a 'dense' configuration A333, the seats are very narrow, but fortunately I've never been on one with all seats occupied. The only good thing is if you score three seats to yourself, but even then it is a short 'bed.'

Nothing gives me the impression that these B789s are going to be marvellous to travel in if booked Y class, perhaps exit row seats excepted.

Forget the QF hype for Y travellers and bring out the tape measure for width and pitch. Neither may be impressive.

 

[Flying Fox]

This question may be better directed at subject matter experts, or perhaps Boeing directly.

However you may find this fact sheet about B787-900 specs interesting: http://qmrcdn.qantasnewsroom.com.au/..._factsheet.pdf

Excellent document. Is this what the Boeing boys hand Mr Joyce when they are doing the sales pitch?

 

[ajw373]

Wiki suggests that nine across in an A333 gives slightly narrower seats than the same economy class configuration for a B789.

When I have travelled in a 'dense' configuration A333, the seats are very narrow, but fortunately I've never been on one with all seats occupied. The only good thing is if you score three seats to yourself, but even then it is a short 'bed.'

Nothing gives me the impression that these B789s are going to be marvellous to travel in if booked Y class, perhaps exit row seats excepted.

Forget the QF hype for Y travellers and bring out the tape measure for width and pitch. Neither may be impressive.

Which airlines have 9 abreast A330's? My best would be only European charter airlines. Guess the point is few, very very few airlines do 9 in an A330, but all bar two are doing 9 in a 789.

 

[moa999]

I wonder why not the A350's.
No idea the difference, but they look better!!

I foresee a 350 v 777X battle in another few years for 2021/22 deliveries to replace the last 6 747s, with the remaining A380s further deferred (unless they pick up two higher weight variants for DFW)

Also see some A320neos coming with a red tail

 

[mannej]

Which airlines have 9 abreast A330's? My best would be only European charter airlines. Guess the point is few, very very few airlines do 9 in an A330, but all bar two are doing 9 in a 789.

D7 and a number of the Philippine based airlines have 9 across in the 330.

 

[ajw373]

D7 and a number of the Philippine based airlines have 9 across in the 330.

So not many and mostly LCC's. Yet 787 is most airlines.

Saying that 9 abreast in an A330 is worse than 789 is basically stating the obvious, but if it isn't the norm, which it isn't on A330's don't see the point comparing to the 789. Compare the norm.

 

[Himeno]

Also see some A320neos coming with a red tail

Qantas Group made an order for 110 A320s a while ago. Some of that order was for NEOs with the entire order meant for the then planned "RedQ" and the Jetstar brands.
With RedQ and JQHK not happening, where are the aircraft planned for them going? They sold some that for some reason JQHK accepted from Airbus before they had approval. I assume the rest of the order will go to JQ, 3K, BL and GK for growth and replacement.

 

[ajw373]

Qantas Group made an order for 110 A320s a while ago. Some of that order was for NEOs with the entire order meant for the then planned "RedQ" and the Jetstar brands.
With RedQ and JQHK not happening, where are the aircraft planned for them going? They sold some that for some reason JQHK accepted from Airbus before they had approval. I assume the rest of the order will go to JQ, 3K, BL and GK for growth and replacement.

Qantas have made it clear that some going to Qantas is not out of the question. Considering they have no 737's on order I would well imagine they are looking at the future of the narrow body fleet right now.

The A320 almost made it to Qantas before in 2002. Rumour had it that Qantas had selected and placed an letter of intent for the A320 to replace the 737's, but 9/11 and the collapse of Ansett meant Qantas had to expand quickly and AA reduced orders, and voila Qantas went 738 in record time. With the aircraft in the Airbus letter of intent eventually coming to Jetstar a few years later.

 

[Jacques Vert]

Qantas have made it clear that some going to Qantas is not out of the question. Considering they have no 737's on order I would well imagine they are looking at the future of the narrow body fleet right now.

The A320 almost made it to Qantas before in 2002. Rumour had it that Qantas had selected and placed an letter of intent for the A320 to replace the 737's, but 9/11 and the collapse of Ansett meant Qantas had to expand quickly and AA reduced orders, and voila Qantas went 738 in record time. With the aircraft in the Airbus letter of intent eventually coming to Jetstar a few years later.

Weren't they 734s?

 

[docjames]

Weren't they 734s?

No they were 738s. AA dumped their order straight after 9/11. QF needed capacity urgently after 9/12.

Edit:

First google result:

http://www.theqantassource.com/b737-800.html

 

[moa999]

And for another 789 comparison
Air Canada with a 292-seat 3-class config .... QF looking positively generous compared to this.
30-31" pitch in Y.

The squeeze of Air Canada's 787s - Wandering Aramean

 

[Jacques Vert]

No they were 738s. AA dumped their order straight after 9/11. QF needed capacity urgently after 9/12.

Edit:

First google result:

Qantas Boeing 737-800 Fleet

Thank you for the link; for some reason I had in mind that it was 734s with the convertible 3 to 2 seats up front.