Qantas flight cancellation, costs incurred

[vaccav]

I wondered if anyone can help with the following:

Qantas has just screwed us over as follows:
- original flight booking on Easter 'Tuesday' from Brisbane to Christchurch around 9.30am
- flight cancelled by qantas and they proposed to put us on a flight that leaves early that evening and gets in after midnight .. .. ie a 9 hour delay. We have a 2 hour travel once we land in Christchurch (with children) so we'd get to our destination after 3.00am. That doesn't really work for us so we declined that proposal.
- we agreed to go on a flight that was instead Maroochydore - Sydney - Christchurch with sensible flight times. All got locked in. Painful, but locked in. This all happened over the phone.
- After doing that we went to change the rental car booking to drop off in MCY instead of BRI and there's an extra cost of $350.

Our view is that this is definitely QF's fault. They made a decision to cancel the BRI-CHC flight. They might have even done that in order to make more money. We are P1 and called the P1 number to ask them to pay the $350 and the guy was pretty dismissive.

We won't claim this on travel insurance as its below the excess. We have lodged a formal complaint in the complaints process to see where this goes.

So my question are:

1. This must have come up before, has anyone had any success with lodging formal complaints on this stuff ?

2. They might be within their legal rights .. .. but this is appalling to stuff customers around and force them to incur more costs so they can make more money.

3. I take it someone has tried to take complaints like this to CTTT (in NSW) .. .. what happens when you do this, what is the CTTT decision ? Does the CTTT simply say "their t & c's protect them so the passenger loses" It used to be that the CTTT would propose that a company should try to sort out customer complaints but I don't know if that's still the case. I'd be fascinated to know if anyone has pursued this route.

4. I assume some people have also complained to the ACCC about this stuff / do they just send a standard response / any idea what the ACCC response is to items like this.

I suspect most people don't have the time to pursue things like this .. .. but y'know .. .. it is maddening when they are so so awful to their customers. Doesn't feel like Vanessa Hudson is being fair with this stuff.

 

[I love to travel]

I think because you accepted the alternative flights you are on the hook for the car rental changes. Maybe ring and try and get them to get you a BNE to SYD flight instead. They don;t have to do it, but they might

 

[love_the_life]

I am sorry to hear of your issues. Is the extra $350 for the flights or the car booking change as I was not quite sure?

 

[vaccav]

I think because you accepted the alternative flights you are on the hook for the car rental changes. Maybe ring and try and get them to get you a BNE to SYD flight instead. They don;t have to do it, but they might

Hi .. thanks for the reply. They originally offered a BNE to SYD flight but it was extremely early: around 6.00am or 6.30am. As we are in Noosa for the long weekend (we live in SYD), it meant we'd have to get up at 3.00am or 4.00am, drive to Brisbane and get the flight from BRI to SYD to CHC. We declined that as it made much more sense to go from MCY.

I admit it was "our choice" to do that .. .. but we still think QF should be paying the extra cost for the rental car. It seems really unfair that they cancel flights like this and leave us with the cost (or the choice of getting up at 3.30am with the children.

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 7:12 PM

I am sorry to hear of your issues. Is the extra $350 for the flights or the car booking change as I was not quite sure?

Hi .. thanks for the reply and for reading my post. The extra $350 was incurred to change the car rental booking to return the car to MCY instead of returning it to BRI.

 

[moa999]

How did the conversation go to have you departing from MCY rather than BNE?
That's no exactly normal given the number of daily flights from BNE to SYD.

 

[vaccav]

How did the conversation go to have you departing from MCY rather than BNE?
That's no exactly normal given the number of daily flights from BNE to SYD.

They offered to put us on the flight from BRI to SYD to CHC. However, it was a very early flight from BRI to SYD (around 6.30am) in order to get onto the flight from SYD to CHC. As we are holidaying in Noosa we'd have had to get up at 3.30am or so to make it to BRI. We turned that down.

In the course of the conversation, we explained we were in Noosa so they put us onto the MCY to SYD flight. It's early (7am), but its a lot closer to Noosa so we're getting up at 5.00am or so to make that flight. We accepted that as an ok-solution. It's MCY-SYD-CHC so not as good as flying direct from BRI to CHC .. .. but ok-ish.

After that we went to change the car rental and the car rental has charged $350 to drop off of MCY instead of BRI.

We'd rather fly from MCY than BRI .. .. and the indirect flight is a pain .. .. but its better than getting two kids out of bed at 3.30am and driving to BRI.

 

[opusman]

Unfortunately QF won't accept responsibility for "consequential losses" like your extra hire car fee.
You could investigate whether travel insurance would cover the extra cost.

If Australia had something like EU.261 your compensation payment for the cancelled flight would probably cover it!

 

[vaccav]

Unfortunately QF won't accept responsibility for "consequential losses" like your extra hire car fee.
You could investigate whether travel insurance would cover the extra cost.

If Australia had something like EU.261 your compensation payment for the cancelled flight would probably cover it!

Thanks. We've looked at travel insurance and won't claim because the excess is too high.

It is useful to know that your experience is they won't cover the consequential loss / at the end of the complaints process.

Does anyone have any knowledge of what happens if you take these things to the CTTT in NSW ? Or what happens upon complaining to ACCC ? My guess is that the ACCC just file it with all the other complaints / there isn't any "specific" action from the ACCC if you complain to them (eg they ask Qantas to consider and advise their response to the ACCC).

I kinda "get" that its qantas' practice to not reimburse this. However, that doesn't make it right. It's patently unfair for them to cancel flights for commercial reasons and expect customers to just accept the losses incurred.

 

[offshore171]

Is there a possibility of canceling for a full refund and then going with Air NZ?

Do they fly BNE to CHC?

 

[AIRwin]

Is there a possibility of canceling for a full refund and then going with Air NZ?

Do they fly BNE to CHC?

NZ departs BNE at 7:15 pm on Easter Tuesday so just as bad

 

[offshore171]

NZ departs BNE at 7:15 pm on Easter Tuesday so just as bad

Would this work? There’s a 1 stopper via Wellington

Departing flight
Tue 22 Apr


09:15
Brisbane Airport (BNE)
Travel time: 3 hrs 30 min
14:45
Wellington International Airport (WLG)
Air New Zealand NZ 272

1 hr 50 min layoverWellington (WLG)

16:35
Wellington International Airport (WLG)
Travel time: 1 hr 5 min
17:40
Christchurch International Airport (CHC)
Air New Zealand NZ 5373

 

[kevrosmith]

Have you considered other car rental options/companies or tried to start a new one way rental booking to see if the same one-way fee applies?

Do you need a car in Noosa or could you consider transfers and uber for trips getting around? (Would that work out cheaper than $350..?)

 

[Scarlett]

It sucks for sure but I don’t think you’re going to get anywhere with this argument. Knowing that you would have to change your rental car return is ‘expected’ to be factored into your decision to take the MCY flights vice BNE.

Alternative: have you called the hire car company and explained to them the problem and see what solutions they can offer? Return earlier? Otherwise alter booking?

 

[vaccav]

Have you considered other car rental options/companies or tried to start a new one way rental booking to see if the same one-way fee applies?

Do you need a car in Noosa or could you consider transfers and uber for trips getting around? (Would that work out cheaper than $350..?)

Thanks for reading my message kevro. Yes, we have looked at the other car rental companies. We have not been able to find a cheaper option than the one that is $350 extra. I spent a lot of time looking.

On needing a car in Noosa .. .. well, yes .. we rented a car because we liked the benefits that brings. It brings independance, ability to go whenever you want, easyness to take beach stuff around, ability to go a little further afield and not having to wait on Ubers. So we'd like to stick with our plan to have that independence.

It's infuriating that Qantas changes their schedule (flights and car booked months in advance) .. .. possibly so they can make more money. And they expect us to just accept it. In my business, we don't treat our customers like that. We don't change what they've bought and tell them accept the cost, time incurred and inconvenience.

 

[vaccav]

Would this work? There’s a 1 stopper via Wellington

Departing flight
Tue 22 Apr


09:15
Brisbane Airport (BNE)
Travel time: 3 hrs 30 min
14:45
Wellington International Airport (WLG)
Air New Zealand NZ 272

1 hr 50 min layoverWellington (WLG)

16:35
Wellington International Airport (WLG)
Travel time: 1 hr 5 min
17:40
Christchurch International Airport (CHC)
Air New Zealand NZ 5373

Hi offshore. Thank-you for looking into this and spending a bit of time. I must admit that we had not looked at that particular option. Having now had a look though, the cost of that particular flight looks like $628 per head (on webjet). That's a big step up on our original booking with a total cost increment for the family of $800 or $900 extra on top.

Thanks for having a look at our problem, though. Really is very much appreciated.

 

[vaccav]

Hi All,

I have great respect for the contributors on this board and I use it a lot. It's a magnficient place to mine for information. The people above have all put their time into helping out / and some have put significant time in.

The fascinating thing is that after a number of posts, no one has mentioned any knowledge or experience (or even hearsay) on complaining to the CTTT in NSW or the ACCC. The CTTT is the equivalent of QCAT in Qld or VCAT in VIC. (It might've helped I guess if I'd put that on the original post !)

It appears then that a highly highly engaged broup of sophisticated travellers, in general, haven't had much of a crack at the CTTT or made ACCC complaints. If we all (as sophisticated travellers) aren't prepared to have a go at that level, then I suspect no one is.

I think I'll have a go. The CTTT can sometimes have a long wait time .. .. but it is a terrible inconvenience for the retailer / travel provider involved.

Thank you to all in providing the information received so far.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Hi All,

I have great respect for the contributors on this board and I use it a lot. It's a magnficient place to mine for information. The people above have all put their time into helping out / and some have put significant time in.

The fascinating thing is that after a number of posts, no one has mentioned any knowledge or experience (or even hearsay) on complaining to the CTTT in NSW or the ACCC. The CTTT is the equivalent of QCAT in Qld or VCAT in VIC. (It might've helped I guess if I'd put that on the original post !)

It appears then that a highly highly engaged broup of sophisticated travellers, in general, haven't had much of a crack at the CTTT or made ACCC complaints. If we all (as sophisticated travellers) aren't prepared to have a go at that level, then I suspect no one is.

I think I'll have a go. The CTTT can sometimes have a long wait time .. .. but it is a terrible inconvenience for the retailer / travel provider involved.

Thank you to all in providing the information received so far.

I think the reason why people have stayed away is that it’s not likely going to yield results.

This involved international travel, so you’d likely be trying to bring a claim for delay under the Montreal Convention. IIRC from other threads, this means it comes out of the jurisdiction of NCAT/VCAT etc as it’s federal legislation.

The pin you’d have to argue that MC99 applies and that this is a delay. I believe there are some jurisdiction in Europe that have equated a cancellation with a delay, and allowed pax to claim damages for the cancellation. But that law doesn’t set any precedent in Australia.

You might want to have a look at this submission to the Department of Infrastructure in 2023 on the Aviation Green Paper. It sets out some of the current limitations when it comes to enforcing passenger rights and claiming for damages https://www.infrastructure.gov.au/s...ubmission-c46-australian-lawyers-alliance.pdf

 

[vaccav]

I think the reason why people have stayed away is that it’s not likely going to yield results.

This involved international travel, so you’d likely be trying to bring a claim for delay under the Montreal Convention. IIRC from other threads, this means it comes out of the jurisdiction of NCAT/VCAT etc as it’s federal legislation.

The pin you’d have to argue that MC99 applies and that this is a delay. I believe there are some jurisdiction in Europe that have equated a cancellation with a delay, and allowed pax to claim damages for the cancellation. But that law doesn’t set any precedent in Australia.

You might want to have a look at this submission to the Department of Infrastructure in 2023 on the Aviation Green Paper. It sets out some of the current limitations when it comes to enforcing passenger rights and claiming for damages https://www.infrastructure.gov.au/s...ubmission-c46-australian-lawyers-alliance.pdf

Thanks, MEL. I hadn't realised that international travel is outside the scope of CTTT, etc. I have also just realised that I might have trouble raising it in NSW in CTTT (is it still called that?) given the flight originates in QLD. Thanks for flagging the above commentary, its much appreciated.

 

[vaccav]

It sucks for sure but I don’t think you’re going to get anywhere with this argument. Knowing that you would have to change your rental car return is ‘expected’ to be factored into your decision to take the MCY flights vice BNE.

Alternative: have you called the hire car company and explained to them the problem and see what solutions they can offer? Return earlier? Otherwise alter booking?

Thanks for reading my post, Scarlett. Yes, I have called the car rental desk and explained the problem to seek alternative solutions. Their solution was simply the one that the system spat out .. .. ie change the return location at the much higher cost. They declined to apply any other solutions that would lower the cost unfortunately.

On your point about 'factoring in' the rental car return location, we figured we had done so. We were wrong as follows:

- Our ORIGINAL rental car booking was pick up in MCY (Easter Thurs) and return to BRI (Easter Tues). We had to pay extra for that one-way hire.

- After Qantas screwed us over they ended up offering to fly us MCY-SYD-CHC (instead of BRI-CHC).

- In the call with Qantas (after they had looked at other awful alternatives, such as get to CHC after midnight) .. .. we made the decision to accept MCY-SYD-CHC. We had figured that by moving from a one-way rental to a "return to base" rental for the car .. .. we'd at least not incur the one-way fee.

'- Turns out we were wrong. Even *after* removing that one-way rental and returning to point of origination (at MCY) the car rental cost has still gone up by more than $350. This is probably because the car was booked months ago at the same time as we booked the Qantas flights. I believe the car rental costs increase a lot as you get closer to the date.

I think its kinda reasonable that we'd factor in the extra rental cost to our decision on a best endeavours basis. We used our best endeaviours. We haven't wasted money. We haven't tried to get something that's unreasonable. We're not looking to get something for nothing.

All we want is to be treated fairly. 'Turns out that new Qantas isn't doing that. There's a new emperor but new Qantas is just as bad as old Qantas on some fronts.

It's very unreasonable that Qantas should change their flights to make more money and then be dismissive of the customers who incur the extra cost. In other industries, that would be considered outrageous.

 

[TheInsider]

All we want is to be treated fairly. 'Turns out that new Qantas isn't doing that. There's a new emperor but new Qantas is just as bad as old Qantas on some fronts.

It's very unreasonable that Qantas should change their flights to make more money and then be dismissive of the customers who incur the extra cost. In other industries, that would be considered outrageous.

Sorry, but no airline will pay out money for incidentals like Car Hire for a change that is months in advance. Also, your assumption of Qantas changing their flights to 'make more money' is based on your opinion only, without any facts.