Qantas Frequent Flyer changes coming in early 2024

[Jean Prouvaire]

From their perspective, you've been an ideal customer. Lots of value extracted, at only a minimal marginal cost to do so. And who cares if you're now feeling disillusioned or unloved? Your best 'value extracting' days are now behind you. Someone else can deal with the 'second press' of your grape if you decide to move on. And why not? Like a perennially unfaithful spouse, they're already paying much more attention to the younger, more (financially) attractive version of you.

I've never felt more like an old workhorse being pushed in the direction of the glue factory (to the strains of "I Still Call Australia Home") than after reading this post.

Nevertheless, the brutal calculus so eloquently described in Gremlin's post is actually why I think it's in Qantas's own interest to offer sweeteners to its Lifetime Gold members. Once you hit LTG it's more difficult to justify going for Platinum every year, and a total pipe dream to aim for Lifetime Platinum. But if, for example, the bar to to achieve WP was lowered to 600 SCs then our "value extracting days" could still continue, to Qantas's benefit.

 

[SYD]

I don't find the carrier charges on QF J classic awards anywhere near the cash ticket price, 10% max.

Maybe if booking in whY but QF are hefty (VA equally bad).

Whereas QR and EK carrier charges can be 3-4 times the QF ones.

Yes, very bad now and add EY to that group also (they were actually first to jack theirs up).

 

[openseat]

I would make the argument that Lifetime Gold (OWS) is really the best you can do on OneWorld. Sure some people will point to access to the Flounge, and whilst that is very nice indeed, OWS gets the main benefits you need when you are travelling OneWorld: lounge access, priority everything, seat selection, extra checked bag, etc. At that point, one could argue that you are better off seeking lifetime status on the other alliances like SkyTeam (10 years top tier with Air France will do that) and Star Alliance (1,000,000 miles on UA). In that way irrespective of which airline you fly, you'll be guaranteed to be treated well.

-RooFlyer88

Good points, but I will miss the first lounges and first check in. My flying, however, is much less for work with a new position late last year. Part of me likes the idea of going for gold in one of the other alliances.

 

[kangarooflyer88]

Maybe if booking in whY but QF are hefty (VA equally bad).

The one saving grace of QF is that you can bypass all taxes and fees travelling in a premium cabin by simply upgrading using points. That is something many other airlines don't let you do. So yes, sure you'll pay out of pocket to book that whY ticket to LAX or LHR but then use points (at considerably less cost than a full classic award) to upgrade to J and that's it. The best part? QF eats all the costs associated with the upgrade including additional APD flying out of the UK (arguably one of the few times QF specifically eats the APD, something that other airlines will gladly do for you like UA). And the best part? You get to earn QFF points and status credits along the way!

Yes, very bad now and add EY to that group also (they were actually first to jack theirs up).

EY? On which program? Last I checked EY isn't a QF award partner. And when I booked them for travel earlier this year to ZRH on Aeroplan in J there were no such surcharges! What I will tell people is that surcharges are within the purview of the FFP. Name for me any airline out there that has partner award availability and I can probably point to a specific FFP that doesn't charge any carrier surcharges for booking on them.

 

[mviy]

The one saving grace of QF is that you can bypass all taxes and fees travelling in a premium cabin by simply upgrading using points.

It’s nice when it works, but last year I had failed upgrades both ways to/from LHR despite requesting an upgrade as late as at the gate. Though the time before that I had success both ways.

 

[dairyfloss]

@Gremlin I think you’re pretty well spot on there except by my own experience, and what I’ve seen with others, is that you can achieve LTG with a good 10 years of business flying ahead of you. In fact, in my case, I made LTG when I was in my late 40s ( from memory) and my 50s decade was my peak flying time with many transpacifics and Europe trips in business.

So I would hope they would consider age as well as LTG status, when deciding whether you are worth looking after or not.

Very much agreed around timing, and that residual value to QF. I should make LTG in the coming 6 months or so, and at which point I will still be in the 1st half of my 40s. We're also at the point now where we have decided that when we fly, we will generally only fly in premium J/F going forwards, except where such cabins are not offered, or work travel forces otherwise (though in the past, I have tended to self-fund work travel upgrades when forced to fly Y).

My greatest value for any airline won't likely be extracted until after QFF LTG comes along, and if I'm not appreciated or looked after by QF... I'll just give my hard earned to another carrier. If I'm in J/F anyway, and have QFF LTG lying in waiting; why should I keep up appearances where I'm not valued? Sure, I might miss an F lounge or two here and there, after falling from WP's good graces, but I'd certainly cope

QFF has a real opportunity here to make something more of this group of very frequent, and often still very active flyers, no matter their age, or at what point in their careers they are. As much as I'm looking forward to spreading my wings a little more after clocking my 14,000, I do still hope that QFF knows and recognises this base as an opportunity in waiting, and does something good with it.

Cheers,
Matt.

 

[RichardMEL]

The problem (from QF's perspective I mean) with giving "boost" SC's for LTS or LTG equivalent to the status already being earned (ie: 250 for Silver, 600 for Gold) thus making attaining the next level easier - is that this means reduced revenue to QF.

The whole point of elite status - again for the airlines - is to lock customers in to generate more revenue. Yeah, they throw in things like lounge access, bag allowances, priority such and such but at the end of the day those things mean nothing unless you use them - and to use them you need to purpose a ticket - with either $$$ or points - either way is revenue (exception of course being booking into other partner airlines of course where QF's going to get nothing, but I digress).

So, LT status is probably seen as a bit of a curse by the bean counters suhc a LTG could book a cheapie ticket once or twice a year and use benefits - the result may be a wash for QF cost vs revenue wise.

So they WANT the customers to attain status/renew on a regular basis to lock them in to the ecosystem AND keep that (LT) golden cash cow generating. In theory anyway. Again, the smart people would just go book flights on CX, BA, EK, whoever and have QF pay for their lounge visits and so on.. but that's not going to be a thing for everyone.

So anyway, I know of no other program (happy to be corrected) that provide a "discount" on status for LT members based on whatever their LT status is. It's a nice idea customer wise but I doubt it is something an airline like QF would seriously consider.

 

[SYD]

EY? On which program?

Take a look over in VA land. The grass isn’t greener.

 

[Youfah Mizzum]

Whilst I can't disagree with @Gremlin 's pessimistic but understandable perspective, sometimes a carrier's revenue comes from an overall satisfaction in that carrier, so in QFs case, when they get the customer satisfaction back to rightful levels then (to me) it's a natural progression that it will equate to a nice bottom line.

When I can redeem my QFF points as a lowly bronze, get upgrades to premium cabins, and book PE or J 3xx days out (and thats how I like to plan my holidays - I've seen prior posts in this thread denigrating that method but at least then I know I am in with a good chance of J and can organise with my employer my leave well in advance) and can get onto their call centres for any queries within say 1 to 30 minutes then my attitude to QF will be quite complimentary!

And with improved CS, improved QFF redemption, it will generate a positive groundswell towards QF which (I think) will covert to a nice increase in revenue, share price etc.

But maybe that's my rose coloured glasses affecting my perspective.

 

[tdimdad]

And with improved CS, improved QFF redemption, it will generate a positive groundswell towards QF which (I think) will covert to a nice increase in revenue, share price etc.

But maybe that's my rose coloured glasses affecting my perspective.

We may be using the same optician here...
QF could well afford to make the whole program sweeter if it also makes it more attractive. Though, one natural limitation they have is the small population compared to the number of members enrolled in the program. There probably isn't much organic growth available any more.

A quick reply to @Lynda2475's comment about max 10% level of fees & carrier charges in CR's. Domestic short hops are about $50 in fees but a Red E-deal goes these days for $149 off-peak. That would make it 33% of the cash fare. The fees + cost to acquire points come so close to the cash fare to me that it's usually not worth to look for a CR on those routes. Though, if I can replace a $249 cash fare with a CR, then it can make sense.

 

[encryptededdy]

So anyway, I know of no other program (happy to be corrected) that provide a "discount" on status for LT members based on whatever their LT status is. It's a nice idea customer wise but I doubt it is something an airline like QF would seriously consider.

Not really the same thing, but JAL Global Club Premier (JGC Premier) is somewhat close. If you already hold JGC Status (lifetime* Sapphire) with JAL, you can attain JGC Premier for 80k Fly On Points (Status Credits) or 80 flights every year. JGC Premier gives you oneworld Emerald benefits, but has slightly less JAL-specific benefits than their real top-tier, Diamond, which requires 100k FOP or 120 flights. I guess this is only possible because JAL doesn't have a Platinum One-type tier**, so they can offer this middle-ground experience. Qantas probably can't do this since Platinum doesn't offer too much over base oneworld Emerald.

*lifetime as long as you continue to hold a JGC Credit Card after qualifying
**"Diamond Metal" isn't really that

Maybe Qantas could offer a special middle tier for LTGs that allows access into Domestic Business and FLounges whilst not being oneworld emerald?

 

[kangarooflyer88]

I've never felt more like an old workhorse being pushed in the direction of the glue factory (to the strains of "I Still Call Australia Home") than after reading this post.

The song is called, "I Still Hold Australia Home,"
I've been to Suva call centres that never close down
From Cape Town and old Auckland town
But no matter how long
Or how restless I roam
I still hold Australia Home

Very much agreed around timing, and that residual value to QF. I should make LTG in the coming 6 months or so, and at which point I will still be in the 1st half of my 40s. We're also at the point now where we have decided that when we fly, we will generally only fly in premium J/F going forwards, except where such cabins are not offered, or work travel forces otherwise (though in the past, I have tended to self-fund work travel upgrades when forced to fly Y).

If you are travelling in J/F I would argue that frequent flyer status is meaningless as you get all the benefits of status anyway.

My greatest value for any airline won't likely be extracted until after QFF LTG comes along, and if I'm not appreciated or looked after by QF... I'll just give my hard earned to another carrier. If I'm in J/F anyway, and have QFF LTG lying in waiting; why should I keep up appearances where I'm not valued? Sure, I might miss an F lounge or two here and there, after falling from WP's good graces, but I'd certainly cope

Ideally you'd want to hold lifetime elite status on all the alliances so that no matter who you fly in coach you'll be treated well.

QFF has a real opportunity here to make something more of this group of very frequent, and often still very active flyers, no matter their age, or at what point in their careers they are. As much as I'm looking forward to spreading my wings a little more after clocking my 14,000, I do still hope that QFF knows and recognises this base as an opportunity in waiting, and does something good with it.

A lot of it depends on the values of management. Given the current management is the same as the old management, I get the feeling that not much will change, certainly with the reputational damage Qantas has suffered these past few months, the likes of which no ASX listed company has ever experienced.

Said it before and I'll say it again, why DIY toasties haven't made a widespread comeback is beyond me. Pretty much everyone is happy and it costs hardly anything compared to alternatives

I'm all for toasties, but I'm completely against the toastie bar. It creates a major queue in the buffet area and is a pain to do. Yes I'm sure it's nice to customize your toastie to your liking, but I can assure you, you'll have a better experience selecting a toastie from the display and having the kitchen staff toast it for you.

Though, one natural limitation they have is the small population compared to the number of members enrolled in the program. There probably isn't much organic growth available any more.

That's a big factor I suspect. Outside of Australia QFF is nothing. There are (to my knowledge) no credit cards or other schemes that allow you to accumulate QFF points in other countries. Meanwhile attaining QFF status (half of the game) requires flying 4 segments with the Qantas Group of Airlines. Unless you are travelling to parts of Asia, Australia or New Zealand, that frankly ain't gonna happen. Contrast that with programs like Delta or American where points can be earned any number of ways including credit cards, hotel bookings, shopping portals, etc, with some of these activities also helping you accrue status. Indeed it is possible to earn status on Delta Airways without setting foot on a Delta aircraft.

-RooFlyer88

 

[Seat0B]

Maybe Qantas could offer a special middle tier for LTGs that allows access into Domestic Business and FLounges whilst not being oneworld emerald?

I think this is an appealing idea that really would not cost them too much on the basis of the marginal cost of a few extra patrons.

 

[Seat0B]

If you are travelling in J/F I would argue that frequent flyer status is meaningless as you get all the benefits of status anyway.

Nearly, but not quite for those flying in J. Some of the WP benefits that are not available to an LTG flying J include the ability to get onto the Hobart call centre (or any call centre in a reasonable wait time), access to F check in for international, access to F Lounge for international and on arrival access to Dom Business Lounge - all of which are pretty attractive to me, and benefits that I do use.

 

[dairyfloss]

If you are travelling in J/F I would argue that frequent flyer status is meaningless as you get all the benefits of status anyway.

Not quite - but a lot of it is there... some examples might be F lounge access when flying J, preferred seating, better access to customer care agents, higher FF points earning to use on redemptions, better access to rewards inventory... but again; I'd cope.

Ideally you'd want to hold lifetime elite status on all the alliances so that no matter who you fly in coach you'll be treated well.

Ideally, but not that important for me, as it's unlikely I would be flying coach on a non-OW carrier, and if I didn't have the choice, I'd probably just pony up for all the extras

 

[serfty]

I don't find the carrier charges on QF J classic awards anywhere near the cash ticket price, 10% max. Whereas QR and EK carrier charges can be 3-4 times the QF ones.

Or not at all on AA / AS. I recently booked a Qantas multi city award starting and ending in AKL with stops at LAX SEA MIA JFK DFW where there were NO carrier surcharges.

 

[Seat0B]

Nearly, but not quite for those flying in J. Some of the WP benefits that are not available to an LTG flying J include the ability to get onto the Hobart call centre (or any call centre in a reasonable wait time), access to F check in for international, access to F Lounge for international and on arrival access to Dom Business Lounge - all of which are pretty attractive to me, and benefits that I do use.

Oh and way better treatment during delays, re-scheduling etc - note I say better treatment, not objectively good treatment as any number of threads on here will attest

 

[dajop]

That's a big factor I suspect. Outside of Australia QFF is nothing. There are (to my knowledge) no credit cards or other schemes that allow you to accumulate QFF points in other countries. Meanwhile attaining QFF status (half of the game) requires flying 4 segments with the Qantas Group of Airlines. Unless you are travelling to parts of Asia, Australia or New Zealand, that frankly ain't gonna happen.

I have two SIngapore based credit cards that I can transfer to QFF. But can also transfer to SQ Krisflyer at the same rate (in fact one of them I can transfer to CX, BA, EY, BR, AF/KL, QR, TG or TK also) , so I wouldn't bother transferring to QFF.

 

[kangarooflyer88]

Not quite - but a lot of it is there... some examples might be F lounge access when flying J, preferred seating, better access to customer care agents, higher FF points earning to use on redemptions, better access to rewards inventory... but again; I'd cope.

In that respect it really depends on the airline. But if you are travelling internationally where generally you have a choice, I would argue that much of the benefits you cite for having status (Flounge, preferred seating, better access to customer care agents) are things that are built-in to your J ticket. For instance if you are flying business on Air Canada you have access to a concierge who monitors your flight and is available at the airport to assist you. You can choose whatever seat you want in the J cabin free of charge. I will concede that the Flounge is probably better than the Signature Suite Lounge and certainly better than the Maple Leaf lounge, but one wonders is that alone worth tying so much spend to one airline?

In my case, I cannot be a chooser (I'm a beggar BTW). I'm often flying in cattle class on whatever is amongst the cheapest fares so for me having these perks makes a whole lot of sense, all else being equal.

-RooFlyer88

 

[encryptededdy]

There are (to my knowledge) no credit cards or other schemes that allow you to accumulate QFF points in other countries.

Citi ThankYou points and Amex MR in the US can transfer to QFF

In fact, Amex MR in many countries (Japan, UK, HK, SG, NZ) can transfer to QFF. I suppose if you're in Singapore, Japan, or NZ you can get 4 QF Group flights reasonably easily by flying Jetstar Japan/Asia/NZ. Of course, in most of these cases, there's other programs you can transfer to as well, so QFF is unlikely to be your first option unless you really wanted to redeem a QF flight.