Qantas getting read the riot act on Facebook

[gumpy]

I worked out that all my flights this year were worth $150-200k to Qantas. If someone came up to me in the street and asked me for $200k, I certainly want to know what I was getting out of the deal.

QF are offering an exclusive status for people like you to get...

I'd love to get to that level but I can't. But with the amount you spend you'd get their easily.

Before this change you got very little after the 2400sc... I thought it was nice QF are thinking about you guys and coming up with something...

 

[dk4]

People keep going on about how "if you don't like it then change your travel patterns". If you actually read either the posts here or the comments on facebook you will see that many of us who are disgruntled are doing exactly that.

Some will do so quietly, gradually reducing QAN flying and loyalty.

Some will do it noisily (hoping that QF will back down, but without the QAN board mounting a blindside against the current CEO & Chair that is unlikely).

And others, who are opinion leaders within their groups/associates, will do it by dragging a whole swag of others along behind them.


loyalty=trust=loyalty

 

[drewbles]

1. Can you see that QFF people are acting like engineers who are threatening to strike?

Hardly threatening. A lot of us have started to vote with our wallets and go elsewhere. Moving airlines takes time, and corporate policies can make things even more difficult

2. With the latest batch of changes the only bad thing is the Loyalty bonus (for some people), everything else is a positive and they haven't taken away anything from anyone, just improved PS and SG.

And by doing so, have even further de-valued WP. 1400SC's vs 700SC's to get what amounts to a 25% bonus on points earn in Y, a J or F lounge instead of a QP or J lounge, and supposedly other small features. Please tell me how double the amount of flying can justify such a small increase in benefits, or am I missing something obvious?

3. Far too many whingers, QF could have not changed a thing and people would be continue on fine and dandy but they decided to give PS and SG more and give uber flyers something to aim for.

As I mentioned above, it's not about the PS and SG, good for them, it's about WP's not actually getting something that the others get. SG = double PS. SG = 75% bonus, PS =50%. WP = 4 x PS yet only 50% more points. How is that fair? The system was based around double to qualify, double the benefits. Now, it's no where near that.

My comments were purposely written in away to mirror the whingers so they can have a look at themselves. I did read the posts, you need the ability to take a step back and see the juxaposition...

You've just re-inforced my initial thoughts that QF really doesn't give a rats about the 1200-2200SC WP's, and only cares for the 2400-3600 ones.

 

[gumpy]

Hardly threatening. A lot of us have started to vote with our wallets and go elsewhere. Moving airlines takes time, and corporate policies can make things even more difficult


And by doing so, have even further de-valued WP. 1400SC's vs 700SC's to get what amounts to a 25% bonus on points earn in Y, a J or F lounge instead of a QP or J lounge, and supposedly other small features. Please tell me how double the amount of flying can justify such a small increase in benefits, or am I missing something obvious?


As I mentioned above, it's not about the PS and SG, good for them, it's about WP's not actually getting something that the others get. SG = double PS. SG = 75% bonus, PS =50%. WP = 4 x PS yet only 50% more points. How is that fair? The system was based around double to qualify, double the benefits. Now, it's no where near that.


You've just re-inforced my initial thoughts that QF really doesn't give a rats about the 1200-2200SC WP's, and only cares for the 2400-3600 ones.

The engineer reference was about that fact they should pull their heads out and stop demanding stupid things and acting like chlidren.

2ndly you're sad because other levels are getting more than before... so instead of being happy for them you selfishly get angry you didn't get a benefit... Again me me me... They don't give a rats cough? we get a 100% bonus J dom access and flounge and priority for seating and upgrade requests. If anything they're just recalibrating the status marks...

 

[serfty]

... If anything they're just recalibrating the status marks...

Exactly.

Due to the differential WP used to well worth striving for, for me this was even as a Lifetime SG. There is no longer such a clear cut case with these announced changes.

 

[gumpy]

Exactly.

Due to the differential WP used to well worth striving for, for me this was even as a Lifetime SG. There is no longer such a clear cut case with these announced changes.

Personally based on the differences I feel that yes SG is better than before but I would prefer to be WP over SG. Personally I put a lot of value on the Flounge benefit, better seats, upgrades and most of all priority treatment when there are delays. Yes there will now be a small subset ahead of me with the CL and WP1 folk but still rather WP SG any day.

I secretly hope heaps of people go to DJ so that the Flounge is less busy but in reality people will still be flying QF to the WP level...

 

[pshepvic]

I wonder if QF are thinking this way:

Any WP who flies domestically for work and switches to DJ, JQ or (amusing thought) TT as a result of these changes will pretty soon be back with QF when they get sick of ringing their business contacts to say "my flight has been delayed / cancelled and I will now be with you at x time instead of the time we previously arranged".

It is my opinion that DJ, JQ and TT are aimed at price-sensitive travellers. If you are a time-sensitive traveller domestically then you really have no viable alternative to QF, based on my personal experience. (And I'm not saying QF is perfect either).

My company has a deal with Virgin so I have to fly them almost exclusively for work. Overall they are pretty good, only two things I have an issue with: 1. Their rock hard seats (personally I can't stand leather seats on a plane, but I guess they're easier to hose out) and 2. Their on time performance and cancellations.

I hope these two things are too be fixed, and I have noticed somewhat of an improvement in number 2 recently. I known they're sticking with leather seats with the new configuration, I just hope they're a bit more comfy.

 

[serfty]

Personally based on the differences I feel that yes SG is better than before but I would prefer to be WP over SG. ...

So would I, however:

• I am NZ *E
• I have QFF Lifetime Gold status
• I have (comped) DJ Gold
• All my travel costs these days comes out of my own pocket.

I will be closely watching the DJ/NZ alliance and how it pans out for Status earning, lounge access, etc..

With the now rather narrower gap betwixt WP/SG bennies I am not sure WP will be worth the cost of pursuing in the future.

There is one caveat on this - yesterday Red Roo indicated there may be a significant change in upgrade process for WP when compared to SG/PS.

Currently an NZ *E can have a confirmed upgrade up to 355 days out for standby rates. This can be on any fare, even awards. If QFF match this for WPs, my interest will be heightened.

 

[Robert K]

People are acting like qantas broke into their house and stole from them.

The FF program was a reward given to people that fly a lot. You're paying to fly, and all that other stuff is just icing on top. The icing on the top might not be as thick as it was before, but that wasn't what you were paying for in the first place.

Qantas has all the good time slots (for international flights anyway) so unless you want to fly at ungodly hours you don't have much choice.

 

[serfty]

...
Qantas has all the good time slots (for international flights anyway) so unless you want to fly at ungodly hours you don't have much choice.

I don't believe Qantas is the "only choice" at the "good time slots" ...

 

[Robert K]

but then i guess it depends on the definition of 'good' to the individual

 

[drewbles]

The engineer reference was about that fact they should pull their heads out and stop demanding stupid things and acting like chlidren.

2ndly you're sad because other levels are getting more than before... so instead of being happy for them you selfishly get angry you didn't get a benefit... Again me me me... They don't give a rats cough? we get a 100% bonus J dom access and flounge and priority for seating and upgrade requests. If anything they're just recalibrating the status marks...

You couldn't be further off. I'm happy for those on PS or SG. Good on them. No problems with that they're getting.

The problem I do have is that WP = 1400SCs, *double* that of SG. The differential in benefits between the two tiers is not worth the extra 700/600SC's required to attain/retain WP.

The different between PS and SG is still large, and it's reflected in the different earn in SC's required to attain/retain it.

I was PS for close on 8 years, and I would have loved to have had such generosity back then (I frequently had 500-600SC's a year without maximising my earn as I did not know about this site back then).

The most prevalent comment about the changes seems to reflect my comment above. The current benefits of WP != 2 x the flying of PS. I have many friends who are PS and SG, and they're thrilled, as they should be

 

[drewbles]

The FF program was a reward given to people that fly a lot. You're paying to fly, and all that other stuff is just icing on top. The icing on the top might not be as thick as it was before, but that wasn't what you were paying for in the first place.

Qantas has all the good time slots (for international flights anyway) so unless you want to fly at ungodly hours you don't have much choice.

That's the thing. They have started to reward the less-frequent flyers more than the truly frequent flyers (WP).

Sure, they have PG/50k points/limo or parking vouchers at 2400 SC's which is nice, but there's a lot of people between 1200 and 2400 still.

If RR's comment about upgrade changes for WP's comes true (say, confirmed at time of booking) then yes, that's a massive monumentally big improvement over PS or SG. That, is rewarding frequent travellers.

 

[gumpy]

You couldn't be further off. I'm happy for those on PS or SG. Good on them. No problems with that they're getting.

The problem I do have is that WP = 1400SCs, *double* that of SG. The differential in benefits between the two tiers is not worth the extra 700/600SC's required to attain/retain WP.

The different between PS and SG is still large, and it's reflected in the different earn in SC's required to attain/retain it.

I was PS for close on 8 years, and I would have loved to have had such generosity back then (I frequently had 500-600SC's a year without maximising my earn as I did not know about this site back then).

The most prevalent comment about the changes seems to reflect my comment above. The current benefits of WP != 2 x the flying of PS. I have many friends who are PS and SG, and they're thrilled, as they should be

How many loyalty programs, both airlines and hotels have a linear loyalty.

 

[connieguy]

...it's all Me memememememememem me what about me? it isn't fair...

Yup. 100% correct. It is MY dollar being exchanged for MY benefits that I pay for and that reduce MY cost of flying.

When QF alters the cost benefit that I have in my travel budget, then please explain why I do not have a right to voice my concerns and if my concerns are not addressed, to place my business elsewhere?

So lets be very clear here, as a WP who just had 3,200 SCs washed off, I have PAID for my benefits by sending over $100k last year with QF/JQ/OW carriers. When QF now says to me spend more money this year but get less benefits because I'm not a corp customer who buys J and F tickets, well sorry mate but I will speak up and ask questions.

Here is the Matrix. I sit as WP who flies discount Y.

http://www.australianfrequentflyer....ing-qantas-frequent-flyer-changes-qfmiles.jpg

Very clear QF think my business spend with them is not worthy of increasing the bonus miles that every other matrix position has been granted.

So a Gold who spends $20k, to get 600 SCs, flying discount Y, gets 50% more bonus miles awarded to them, while I spend around $110k, to get 3,200 SCs, flying discount Y and receive no additional bonus mile rewards for my over 5 times increased spend. You don't need to be very smart to fully understand the message QF is sending me and all the other WP discount Y flyers.

But you are right. I have voiced by issues and voted by deciding with who I will now exchange my money for flights and benefits with. QF to maintain WP and F Lounge access, AA for Exp and SQ for Gold and PPS Club. Will cost me what obtaining WP1 would have cost me and will deliver much more value than WP1 will ever do.

 

[Robert K]

You're paying to fly. Points are just a bonus.

 

[medhead]

but then i guess it depends on the definition of 'good' to the individual

I don't know, a flight every day to both Singapore and Hong Kong from ADL is much better regardless of the time, compared to 3 weekly to Singapore on Qantas.

 

[gumpy]

Here is the Matrix. I sit as WP who flies discount Y.

http://www.australianfrequentflyer....ing-qantas-frequent-flyer-changes-qfmiles.jpg

Very clear QF think my business spend with them is not worthy of increasing the bonus miles that every other matrix position has been grant

They are providing and incentive additional incentive to all people to fly premium cabin because it's more profitable for them if more people do so.

As a WP you're more valuable for them than any SG, PS etc but less so compared to the WP who fly J. That's just reality.

What you're doing is correct. Very few loyalty programs are linear so getting the sweet spot level across all of them is probably better than just being uber in one. But I notice that you will be going for WP for QF indicating that you still feel WP is worth it compared to SG. This is something I agree with also. Yes they didn't move it by 25% but I'd still much rather be WP...

As for WP1, the benefits might be really good... I mean to fly WP three times there must be very few people there... QF an afford to really pamper these people and should... they are flying to the point where I'd want to kill myself... Might be some really good stuff in there which may sway you to stay with QF until that mark. They've openly said this is the objective of bringing in WP1. I think we should watch this space.

150k points + ATA + guaranteed upgrades at the time of booking + Partner WP + CL access? That might sway you...

 

[connieguy]

You're paying to fly. Points are just a bonus.

With respect I run a business and fly as part of my business. I use points / miles to reduce my cost of flying. It is MY money I spend and I will spend it with who ever gives me the best reduction in my cost of flying by their offer of the best miles / lowest burn rate for the best earn rate that I can later use for free / lower cost flights to reduce my overall cost of flying.

Lounges are nice but all airlines give them to high mileage FF. If I never was given QF F lounge again, it would not cause me any heartache. While the QF F lounge is the best I have even had the pleasure to visit, any lounge is better than waiting at the departure gate.

Airplanes are just long and boring air taxi rides. They are not the reason I fly. They just get me to where I need to be quicker than any other means of transport.

Why anyone would look at what airlines offer as other than that is beyond me. We BUY the miles with our payment for the flights. The airlines GIVE you nothing that you have not already paid for. Their reward schemes are there to BUY your loyalty / spend by giving you back a small percent of what YOU spend so you will send even more with them.

QF have made, in my opinion, a big error in thinking their high SC earning WPs that fly -Y have negative value to them compared to all the other Cabin/Status members in their bonus miles matrix.

http://www.australianfrequentflyer....ing-qantas-frequent-flyer-changes-qfmiles.jpg

Why QF thinks that a Gold who earns 600 SCs a year and flys -Y deserves a 50% increase in bonus mile earned (which reduces their cost of flying and earning the 600 SCs), while a WP who earns 3,200 SC a year (over 5 times what the Gold earns and spends) and flys -Y (like the Gold does) deserves no miles bonus increase (no decrease in their cost of flying for earning the 3,200 SCs yet spends over 5X what the Gold spends on the same -Y service) is beyond my understand.

But no matter, it is not my place to question or winge about the QF decision but only to react to it. End of April 2011, QF wiped off the 3,200 SCs I earned last year. This year I would have earned at least 4,000 SCs. Fair enough it is QF's call as to how they reward / give back to me some of what I spend with them. This year, as a direct result of the QF "Enhancement" of their policy toward WPs who choose to fly -Y, I will earn QF WP, AA EXP, SG Gold, SG PPS Club and maybe DJ Gold so I can learn now other airlines help their FFs to reduce their cost of flying by giving back to them some of what they pay the airlines.

The bottom line is NO airline give you back ANYTHING they have not gained from your business with them, either directly or indirectly.

 

[connieguy]

150k points + ATA + guaranteed upgrades at the time of booking + Partner WP + CL access? That might sway you...

For what I think it will cost me to gain QF WP1, I can get QF WP, AA EXP, SG Gold, SG PPS Club and maybe DJ Gold. No way will QF WP1 be worth that combination.

I suspect when the big Star arrived in Oz, probably around 4th Qtr 2011, the S**T will hit the fan. Hey isn't that when QF plans to release the WP1 benefits details? I'm sure the 2 event are not related........:shock: