Qantas industrial action again today [23Sep11]

[Jack Melon]

Believing a union official is the same believing a polictian! oh wait aren't half of them politicians now!

I am not here to joke around, i am providing a quote from the head of the TWU who has been in war with Qantas for 9 months +.

 

[travelislife]

I am not here to joke around, i am providing a quote from the head of the TWU who has been in war with Qantas for 9 months +.

The thing is jack if you are going to provide an opinion with a quote you have to actually reference the quote rather than just provide it as your own opinion with no basis.

 

[nlagalle]

I am not here to joke around, i am providing a quote from the head of the TWU who has been in war with Qantas for 9 months +.

No joking in relation to what i said - they all grandstand.

you are quick to jump on the unions side because it is against Qantas. Would you still be behind the union if it was Virgin (knowing they are already paid less than their fellow QF staff?)

 

[MiLK_MaN]

Is anyone else getting jacked off with the union offering people to work overtime in place of the striking workers, and then saying it's all Qantas' fault for not accepting the offer?

Don't they already have an overtime ban as it is? Seriously, both the unions and Qantas are as stubborn as each other...

 

[medhead]

Is anyone else getting jacked off with the union offering people to work overtime in place of the striking workers, and then saying it's all Qantas' fault for not accepting the offer?

Don't they already have an overtime ban as it is? Seriously, both the unions and Qantas are as stubborn as each other...

No I'm not jacked off at all. If you understand the offer properly it is actually a good idea. It provides a means for qantas to not disrupt passengers. IF it was accepted, it would cost qantas - no problem from me that qantas don't accept the offer. Basically the union offer is a way to hurt qantas but not the passenger.

The overtime ban is irrelevant, as it is an offer for workers to be available on their day off. As in cross the "line" without being called scabs. So not really overtime.

 

[dfcatch]

No I'm not jacked off at all. If you understand the offer properly it is actually a good idea. It provides a means for qantas to not disrupt passengers. IF it was accepted, it would cost qantas - no problem from me that qantas don't accept the offer. Basically the union offer is a way to hurt qantas but not the passenger.

The overtime ban is irrelevant, as it is an offer for workers to be available on their day off. As in cross the "line" without being called scabs. So not really overtime.

It's not negotiation when a gun is held to your head.

I know you and I have differing views on this medhead - but IMHO, sack the shop stewards, dock the pay of the strikers, and offer higher raises to workers who have a track record of not striking.

Legal or not - that's how I would reward this union belligerency.

IMHO of course

 

[medhead]

It's not negotiation when a gun is held to your head.

I know you and I have differing views on this medhead - but IMHO, sack the shop stewards, dock the pay of the strikers, and offer higher raises to workers who have a track record of not striking.

Legal or not - that's how I would reward this union belligerency.

IMHO of course

I don't think I said anything about negotiation. But to take up your point it is negotiation when both sides are holding a gun to each others head.

Qantas management are just as belligerent based in public reporting. But unless you are sitting in the room with them it is not possible point fingers at either side.

 

[dfcatch]

I don't think I said anything about negotiation. But to take up your point it is negotiation when both sides are holding a gun to each others head.

Qantas management are just as belligerent based in public reporting. But unless you are sitting in the room with them it is not possible point fingers at either side.

I know I know - I'm just winding you up medhead

The second last thing I would do is defend QF management.

That also follows our other general discussions regarding the lack of morale at QF etc etc.

However - the last thing I would do is defend the union. And that really says it all.

If the union wants my support as a member of the public, then:

1/ don't inconvenience me (and no, I really couldn't care less about your dispute. I'm traveling, don't inconvenience me).

2/ work like you don't need the money. AKA - deliver my bags in a prompt manner

 

[medhead]

But the union offer re off duty workers means you don't have to be inconvenienced if qantas accepted the offer.

Note I'm not suggesting qantas should accept the offer and not defending the union. Just mentioning that there is an option to not inconvenience passengers. It strikes me as an interesting union tactic. A financial cost but still helping them operate. also letting members cross the picket line. That is very interesting IMO

 

[dfcatch]

But the union offer re off duty workers means you don't have to be inconvenienced if qantas accepted the offer.

Note I'm not suggesting qantas should accept the offer and not defending the union. Just mentioning that there is an option to not inconvenience passengers. It strikes me as an interesting union tactic. A financial cost but still helping them operate. also letting members cross the picket line. That is very interesting IMO

I agree.

But for some reason I just don't see QF being interested in taking up the "offer".

 

[Sprucegoose]

Believing a union official is the same believing a polictian! oh wait aren't half of them politicians now!

Some of them even have authentic Scottish, heavy northern pommie accents!!

How good is that!!

They should all be sent home, along with the PM.

 

[Pushka]

Husbands flight was 45 minutes late out from Melbourne last night. He does a lot of interstate travel and we cannot risk him not getting there for our business. We will be seriously looking at Virgin now, especially with the matched privilege and now, free lounge access. Dont care who is responsible for all this, the bottom line is that we need to travel to run our business. Qantas needs to fly on schedule to run theirs.

 

[Sprucegoose]

Husbands flight was 45 minutes late out from Melbourne last night. He does a lot of interstate travel and we cannot risk him not getting there for our business. We will be seriously looking at Virgin now, especially with the matched privilege and now, free lounge access. Dont care who is responsible for all this, the bottom line is that we need to travel to run our business. Qantas needs to fly on schedule to run theirs.

Yep that's why we love free markets, we all have a choice in life.

Too much inconvenience and we start making changes.

 

[Jack Melon]

No joking in relation to what i said - they all grandstand.

you are quick to jump on the unions side because it is against Qantas. Would you still be behind the union if it was Virgin (knowing they are already paid less than their fellow QF staff?)

No, because virgin have a good management, have good staff and are on the good side of the unions, just got a pay rise and best of all... they have job security! Oh my god, so much to ask. They don't care if they are paid less because they have a good company to work for, and fellow staff and unions are happy with them and the unions.

Let me just say this:
1. John Borghetti knows how to run an airline smartly and efficiently. He keeps the staff happy, and actually responds to staff complaints and suggestions. As other virgin cabin crew have said, they are not afraid to send him an email at 1am in the morning over a complaints or a bad day or something else, and get a reply t 8am the next morning.
2. Alan Joyce only cares about money, and couldn't give a fat rat's about his staff. The management is s***, Olivia Wirth needs to get out, and it just seems that they don't get it.

Enjoy Qantas while you can.

 

[straitman]

No, because virgin have a good management, have good staff and are on the good side of the unions, just got a pay rise and best of all... they have job security! Oh my god, so much to ask. They don't care if they are paid less because they have a good company to work for, and fellow staff and unions are happy with them and the unions.

Jack,
I'm trying to say this in the nicest possible way but that is one of the more naive comments I have ever heard about unions, employers and employees. It just does not work that way in reality :!:

Let me just say this:
1. John Borghetti knows how to run an airline smartly and efficiently. He keeps the staff happy, and actually responds to staff complaints and suggestions. As other virgin cabin crew have said, they are not afraid to send him an email at 1am in the morning over a complaints or a bad day or something else, and get a reply t 8am the next morning.
2. Alan Joyce only cares about money, and couldn't give a fat rat's about his staff. The management is s***, Olivia Wirth needs to get out, and it just seems that they don't get it.

Enjoy Qantas while you can.

No real disagreement here though.

 

[dfcatch]

Jack,
I'm trying to say this in the nicest possible way but that is one of the more naive comments I have ever heard about unions, employers and employees. It just does not work that way in reality :!:

No real disagreement here though.

Agreed - 10,000%


FWIW Jack - DJ doesn't have the industrial "baggage" that QF has.

Whilst I don't blindly defend QF here, but industrial 'leftovers' are significant reasons why QF felt it necessary to do things such as Jetconnect and JQ.

QF woud love to start from a blank page again but can't.

Unions need to realise that if they don't let QF restructure, downsize, and improve their cost base - then they put AJ and QF management into a corner where they are forced to send routes to other operations such as JQ and Jetconnect and others. It's no small reason why AJ talks down portions of the company.

So - by all means guys - push hard for further increases, unreasonable job security and extra perks. But don't then be surprised when you are made redundant because QF shuts down entire sections of operations as a result.

 

[Sprucegoose]

What's is driving it from my perception is that Qantas international is actually or perceived to be losing money. Apparently from some time and they refuse to view the whole operation, but split the results to suit the purpose of becoming Asainised (read a LCC- LOWER cost airline).

I see a national airline like I see the army navy air force, hospitals and schools etc. The capability to move many people quickly. And I am not a socialist!!

The rest is just process to get the costs down. It's a shame because Qantas pilots are probably the best in the world and they don't grow on trees.

 

[mannej]

Jack,

I agree with others here that the comments you have made are fairly naive. Union officials in my experiences are not the most truthful, and can be a bit creative with the truth. That is my experience towards the end of the bargaining at my company.

Olivia Wirth is paid to do PR, it is her job. Although not saying that she is the most honest (i.e pushing the company line), she is no better or no worse than the likes of Steve Purvinas.

The position of DJ is a little bit different to that of QF's. Willie Walsh and BA have been through similar problems in recent history, so it is not something that is unique to QF. Yes Borghetti seems to be making all the right moves, but is it sustainable in the long term? Time will tell. Will QF be around for a while, yes I believe they will be. Is competition good, yes. Will DJ/VA go through similar times, yes indeed they will. That is the nature of the industry.

 

[nlagalle]

No, because virgin have a good management, have good staff and are on the good side of the unions, just got a pay rise and best of all... they have job security! Oh my god, so much to ask. They don't care if they are paid less because they have a good company to work for, and fellow staff and unions are happy with them and the unions.

Let me just say this:
1. John Borghetti knows how to run an airline smartly and efficiently. He keeps the staff happy, and actually responds to staff complaints and suggestions. As other virgin cabin crew have said, they are not afraid to send him an email at 1am in the morning over a complaints or a bad day or something else, and get a reply t 8am the next morning.
2. Alan Joyce only cares about money, and couldn't give a fat rat's about his staff. The management is s***, Olivia Wirth needs to get out, and it just seems that they don't get it.

Enjoy Qantas while you can.

Jack, as the others have pointed out here, you have made some very naive comments, which show your lack of understanding of the work place and industrial relations in general. If you really think they don't care that they are paid less, you are wrong.

BTW the same union that caused issues on Friday night threatened the same to VA last year:

Virgin Blue engineers plan industrial action

So despite what you think, VA is just another company that has to deal with the same unions as QF, making the same threats when EBA's are due.

p.s. I'll continue to enjoy Qantas when I fly them - they'll be around for a long time yet.

 

[Pushka]

p.s. I'll continue to enjoy Qantas when I fly them - they'll be around for a long time yet.

Shouldnt that read: "I'll continue to enjoy Qantas when they fly?"