Qantas industrial action again today [23Sep11]

[Rebekkap]

And is Virgin's safety record an issue? Air New Zealand?

It's not - or at least not to me - a matter of their record. It's a matter of whether they have a corporate culture that takes safety seriously.

I'd suggest that choosing to fly during the ash cloud - which as others have pointed out was the cheaper option- says a fair bit about their safety culture vs Qantas's safety culture.

It's about future safety, not past safety.

 

[Pushka]

It's about future safety, not past safety.

Well that raises interesting issues for Qantas then, doesn't it. As I said a few posts ago, if it really was dangerous to fly at all during the ash cloud, then why wasn't the air space closed by Australian authorities. If it was dangerous to fly, then all planes should have been grounded by regulatory authorities. End of story.

 

[mannej]

Well that raises interesting issues for Qantas then, doesn't it. As I said a few posts ago, if it really was dangerous to fly at all during the ash cloud, then why wasn't the air space closed by Australian authorities. If it was dangerous to fly, then all planes should have been grounded by regulatory authorities. End of story.

It is a bit simplistic view of things. However, this is the argument that occurred at the time of the ash cloud. You had people who defended the decision to stay put, whilst others complained about it.

I do remember when JQ and DJ decided to ground their flights from DPS (and possibly CGK) after the Indo Volcano started spewing its guts, however QZ and GA were seen as cowboys at the time.

As for regulatory groundings, the FAA knew that the DC10 had cargo door locking issues, and allowed it to stay flying. That soon changed after the Turkish DC10 accident...

Each to their own...

 

[Pushka]

So there is to be another stop work action on Friday.

 

[nlagalle]

Well that raises interesting issues for Qantas then, doesn't it. As I said a few posts ago, if it really was dangerous to fly at all during the ash cloud, then why wasn't the air space closed by Australian authorities. If it was dangerous to fly, then all planes should have been grounded by regulatory authorities. End of story.

I still don't get how you think staying grounded was cheaper for Qantas, unless you believe Ben Sandilands (who has the axe to grind with QF). There was also points where all airlines were grounded. They all chose to fly again at different times.

 

[amaroo]

So there is to be another stop work action on Friday.

Looks like Qantas staff are not the only ones striking - AQIS are also downing tools in the coming days.

This will affect all airlines the same way. No matter if it's QF or VA or whatever.

 

[JohnK]

But that can happen on any airline you fly on. What happens if your Virgin flight is cancelled? Same spot. It's one of the things of air travel.

They put you on the newly created flight 15 minutes later.

Not quite. It did happen yesterday but it does not always end up that way with cancelled flights.

 

[medhead]

It's not - or at least not to me - a matter of their record. It's a matter of whether they have a corporate culture that takes safety seriously.

I'd suggest that choosing to fly during the ash cloud - which as others have pointed out was the cheaper option- says a fair bit about their safety culture vs Qantas's safety culture.

It's about future safety, not past safety.

What do we conclude about safety culture from qantas putting staff and pax onto AirNZ flights at the time? Safe on ANZ planes but not on qantas planes?

As for regulatory groundings, the FAA knew that the DC10 had cargo door locking issues, and allowed it to stay flying. That soon changed after the Turkish DC10 accident...

Each to their own...

If air crash investigation is to be believed there was a gentleman's agreement to fix the problem. They relied on the goodwill of the company. What changed is how they regulate and now that change has been made the lack of grounding for DC10s back then is a poor indicator of current practice.

 

[TheInsider]

What do we conclude about safety culture from qantas putting staff and pax onto AirNZ flights at the time? Safe on ANZ planes but not on qantas planes?

.

When/where did this happen though?

 

[Undercover Brother]

When/where did this happen though?

During the ash cloud drama, QF moved their staff stuck in NZ back to Aus via Air NZ. Have a look through these forums of maybe crikey for exact details, but from what I can recall they had to get their staff back home to stop them getting paid allowances, so they just put them on some ANZ flights.

In terms of people starting the ash cloud safety debate again, please it's been done to death.

 

[medhead]

In terms of people starting the ash cloud safety debate again, please it's been done to death.

totally agree! I guess those events are illustrative for this debate to highlight that it is risky to unquestioningly accept the line of most organisations when there is some level of conflict and debate. Spin is used by everyone, unions and employers.