Qantas & Jetstar reduce capacity

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Well a big thank you to Geoff Dixon et al at the rude roo - you have just totally screwed Cairns.

No more QF international from CNS...

People here are livid.

:evil::evil::evil::evil::evil:

Of course that has been the QF plan for CNS ever since the (failed) introduction of Australian Airlines some years back. That one failed. Question is, will this? I think that with the 2 class service and more "funky" marketing of JQ, QF think it can work.

Is it the reduction in services that is the issue, or the loss of the Premium brand into CNS and the cache that goes with it that has people livid?
 
Of course that has been the QF plan for CNS ever since the (failed) introduction of Australian Airlines some years back. That one failed. Question is, will this? I think that with the 2 class service and more "funky" marketing of JQ, QF think it can work.

Is it the reduction in services that is the issue, or the loss of the Premium brand into CNS and the cache that goes with it that has people livid?

Both. Qantas is trying to sell a marketing strategy that suits it, not its markets into Cairns. Future moves by CX, CO and NZ and any others could be the nail in the international market coffin or the lifeline. When you add in inappropriate and ill-conceived campaigns by the regional, state and national tourism authorities, a lack of willingness to change by a number of local operators and a rising Aussie dollar you have a very sad situation which will cause a serious blow to employment and development of the region. Like Platy, feeling very bruised this morning.
 
Is it the reduction in services that is the issue, or the loss of the Premium brand into CNS and the cache that goes with it that has people livid?

Both.

Here's some context and further info...

Recently, Qantas stopped flying the CNS-DRW-SIN route with a 2-class 767-300 and replaced it with an all economy Jetstar Asia aircraft (with no domestic leg CNS-DRW allowable). They shortly after replaced a 2-class 737-800 domestic CNS-DRW service with 717-200. The net capacity loss on the CNS-DRW is 50%, CNS-SIN 40% AND no more business class!!!

Now they are removing something like 100,000 seats per year on the CNS-NRT route (two daily 767-300s, one ex BNE and one ex SYD replaced by one Deathstar) meaning a potential loss of business to tourism in CNS of estimated $100 million PLUS the domestic capacity of the domestic legs to BNE and CNS (with the decent international business class config).

PLUS Cairns will lose the Nagoya/Osaka pax currently serviced by Deathstar.

So thanks to QF Cairns is losing potentially 100,000 pax through DRW and another 100,000 pax from NRT plus maybe another 40,000 to eastern Japan cities.

So the impact on local business is calculated at well over $100 million per year on a city of just 150,000 population, which depends on tourism for its prosperity.

Apart from the obvious job losses at QF (pilots, ground crew etc moved or out of work), the knock on effect to the tourism industry will destroy some businesses and many jobs.

SIGNIFICANTLY, local government and tourism leaders here obviously had no idea that QF was going to be so extreme in its cuts - there apparently had been no communication with key local bodies.

There needs to be an integrated marketing campaign to unite the efforts of airline(s) and local business with government backing as appropriate. This isn't happening and obviously QF doesn't givea stuff about the community that has both supported it and relies upon it.

What annoys me is that the airline will cry poor to the Fed Gov to garner protectionism on key routes (Oz-US) and play the patriotism card in branding, but make blatantly self interested business decisions without any regard to the interests of their staff, the nation or local communities.

And no, I don't think they have done their homework in terms of their market reserach.



:evil::evil::evil::evil::evil:
 
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The question I guess then, is if the market supports QF as it claims, why is QF finding it so hard to make a profit on the routes?
 
The question I guess then, is if the market supports QF as it claims, why is QF finding it so hard to make a profit on the routes?

IMHO you would need to sanity check whether they have the right:

1. product
2. price
3. brand/marketing

On product, clearly, they have no idea about the Japanese market. Many folk here said that the LCC wouldn't work for that market. QF have a history of trying to dumb down product in/out of Cairns, both domestically (they tried removing domestic business class a few years ago) and internationally (the Australian Airlines experiment) and now their products are so totally confused it's no wonder they can't market a clear message.

They have also been running ageing 767s with inferior international business class service (old Dreamtime seats). There's nothing classy like a Skybed to get you to your 5 star Sheraton Mirage, or Lizard Island resort.

Why remove BOTH daily QF flights - why not leave one and see what happens???

On price the rules are simple. You have to price any product at a price the market will withstand. When your product is over-priced it doesn't sell. Jetstar is over-priced and has a reputation for unreliability and bad customer service. It is failing on many routes. Similarly, QF is over-charging for its business class on many routes (eg to Japan) for an inferior product (old aircraft and seats) - there's no point is flying with empty seats if you could have sold them by lowering the price!!!!!

On brand/marketing, the QF service is being run on old aircraft with tired cabins. The full service product is blurring into the LCC product.

Crucially, QF is failing to work WITH local business/industry to create unified messages to lure customers. The two should go hand in hand. People won't travel to Cairns unless it's assets are attractively branded/marketed AND there are seats to fly on!

I also think that local business could be doing more - I don't see that they have an integrated campaign to promote the city/region. Recent government marketing campaigns have also been lacklustre (the infamous Lara Bingle one for example).

I also think it is just part of the QF grand scheme. They want to emasculate the full sevice brand on all but the most profitable routes in favour of Deathstar (which is principally about screwing staff onto lower wages, he most recent deals being 25% more hours for 30% less pay). The fuel price has provided the excuse they have been waiting for to destroy the Cairns services. We know that Deathstar is the favoured child, after all it's getting the new 787s first!!!

Hand in hand with that goes QFs very shortsighted concept of a "holiday destination" - the mindset is that once a place is so defined the only possible product is LCC, which is nuts given that many places offer upmarket options (see discussions on Deathstar failure to Honolulu)!!!!!

QF is so obsessed with short term profit it is talking itself into very simplistic strategies, which clearly (based on Deathstar's failing routes) are shortsighted in the extreme. It also has a complete disregard for the impact of its decisions on other people and businesses, which could come back to bite it in many ways.

IF it really is all about fuel costs, they might as well just run a few premium routes and forget the rest since they will easily talk themselves into deciding everything just became unprofitable rather than making the effort to get the price, product and brand/marketing correct. (Talk about giving up - look at the KL route being dumped just when AirAsia is taking up the fight to the rude roo).

QF have been losing the plot for some time and now with a little pressure the cracks are wide open...
 
I also booked JQ Syd => KUL for this december (Xmas),
what do you think will happen because at the moment
QF also use JQ for this route.

Will they give me

1. refund (worst outcome)
2. let QF take over that route again ? (highly unlikely)
3. book me QF SYD => SIN then JQ SIN=>KUL (unlikely as well)
4. book me on Malaysian airline ?
 
I also booked JQ Syd => KUL for this december (Xmas),
what do you think will happen because at the moment
QF also use JQ for this route.

Will they give me

1. refund (worst outcome)
2. let QF take over that route again ? (highly unlikely)
3. book me QF SYD => SIN then JQ SIN=>KUL (unlikely as well)
4. book me on Malaysian airline ?

You missed to most likely option:

SYD-DRW-SIN-KUL on JQ
 
You missed to most likely option:

SYD-DRW-SIN-KUL on JQ

Well that's option 5 for them, but that would means that
I will occupy three of their legs during the most busiest / profitable time of the year.... ;)

Also, if they just want to give me a refund, can I say no ?
and insist on the alternatives ? Options 2-4 ?
 
I also booked JQ Syd => KUL for this december (Xmas),
what do you think will happen because at the moment
QF also use JQ for this route.

Will they give me

1. refund (worst outcome)
2. let QF take over that route again ? (highly unlikely)
3. book me QF SYD => SIN then JQ SIN=>KUL (unlikely as well)
4. book me on Malaysian airline ?

I would imagine that over the next short period, there will be publication of a re-accommodation policy to deal with the affected routes. Until that time, while people can have some quite educated guesses based on past practices, anything is really just speculation.
 
I suspect it will also depend on how important you are to them... if important you may see SYD-SIN-KUL as an option, if less important you may get somthing less appealing.
E
 
I just realised that QF Link and Jetconnect seemed to have come out unscathed... I was a little suprised - given Jetconnect are flying older aircraft but I guess their operating costs are lower than mainline....

What do people think?
 
I just realised that QF Link and Jetconnect seemed to have come out unscathed... I was a little suprised - given Jetconnect are flying older aircraft but I guess their operating costs are lower than mainline....

What do people think?

I think QF link are pretty profitable - they seems ot be able to charge quite high fares and run fuel efficient turbo props.

Most of the cust etc that were announced were pretty much in the pipeline and there isnt to much of a drop in capacity as a lot of the routes are ebing moved to Jetstar.

It just works that it ties intot the time of the enginners dispute and high oil prices that they can get away with it (ie SYD-OOL etc)
 
One side effect of moving QF services to JQ is the reduction of one-world routes. And another piece of trivia, is that OOL, one of the top 10 busiest airports in Australia (6 or 7?) is no longer going to be a one-world destination (but it is a star alliance destination - who would have thought that there is going to be a major airport in Aus that is a * destn but not a one-world destn?)
 
And another piece of trivia, is that OOL, one of the top 10 busiest airports in Australia (6 or 7?) is no longer going to be a one-world destination (but it is a star alliance destination - who would have thought that there is going to be a major airport in Aus that is a * destn but not a one-world destn?)
Indeed, plus http://www.qantas.com.au/flightinfo/dyn/pdas the qantas website lists its top routes as -

Sydney- Melbourne
Brisbane- Sydney
Brisbane- Melbourne
Gold Coast- Sydney
Melbourne- Adelaide
Melbourne- Gold Coast
London- Sydney
Perth- Melbourne
Singapore- Sydney
London- Singapore
Adelaide- Sydney
Sydney- Perth
Cairns- Sydney
Auckland- Sydney
Cairns- Brisbane
Melbourne- Singapore
Singapore- Perth
Melbourne- Perth (sic)
Melbourne- Hobart
Los Angeles- Sydney
To be fair, I think Qantas is more interested in what Tiger will do in South East Queensland, rather than Air New Zealand. And I would probably agree. (Although OOL remains a OneWorld destination via codeshare!)

i.e. Tiger will have to hub somewhere is SEQ, so Qantas needs strong competitive options ready to swing into force in BNE & OOL. Tiger's strategy will likely be to avoid a hub in Sydney, and concentrate on using any/all its slots (when it enters that market) to feed into its bases/hubs in SEQ & MEL, and connect Sydney passengers out/in through its system that way. I would anticipate this as a much larger threat to Qantas than anything Star Alliance might throw at it in SEQ.

Specifically in regards to NZers, it is not unusual to hear quite a few Kiwi accents on JQ (domestic) Queensland flights. Generally most seem happy about transferring onto JQ! (One imagines it won’t be too long until we see more JQ services in/to NZ, once Qantas sures up its CityFlyer/TransTasman brand there.)
 
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Cairns airport is the 5th busiest for international passengers and 6th busiest airport overall in Australia and will now not be serviced by Qantas (internationally). :confused:

Absolutely disgusting - I hope the federal government instigates an open air policy and other airlines such as Tiger or Viva Macau can fly into Cairns (and beyond?) :evil:
 
Cairns airport is the 5th busiest for international passengers and 6th busiest airport overall in Australia and will now not be serviced by Qantas (internationally). :confused:

Absolutely disgusting - I hope the federal government instigates an open air policy and other airlines such as Tiger or Viva Macau can fly into Cairns (and beyond?) :evil:

I agree. The Fed Gov should retract all anti-competitive support for the rude roo forthwith. Even local State MP Desley Boyle is now saying this publicly.

Emirates have previously announced an intention to fly into both Cairns and Darwin using 777s.
 
I would anticipate this as a much larger threat to Qantas than anything Star Alliance might throw at it in SEQ.

Oh I don't think I was implying that Star Alliance was going to be a threat to Qantas in SEQ!! (unless of course they enlist DJ). Just a little piece of trivia, that's all. And really the absence of the ability to use OOL in many one-world products is not significant either, given the proximity to BNE.
 
What I find most interesting is the fact the QF OOL-SYD service only recently became profitable after more than 10 yrs.

TG
 
Both.

Here's some context and further info...

Recently, Qantas stopped flying the CNS-DRW-SIN route with a 2-class 767-300 and replaced it with an all economy Jetstar Asia aircraft (with no domestic leg CNS-DRW allowable). They shortly after replaced a 2-class 737-800 domestic CNS-DRW service with 717-200. The net capacity loss on the CNS-DRW is 50%, CNS-SIN 40% AND no more business class!!!

Now they are removing something like 100,000 seats per year on the CNS-NRT route (two daily 767-300s, one ex BNE and one ex SYD replaced by one Deathstar) meaning a potential loss of business to tourism in CNS of estimated $100 million PLUS the domestic capacity of the domestic legs to BNE and CNS (with the decent international business class config).

PLUS Cairns will lose the Nagoya/Osaka pax currently serviced by Deathstar.

So thanks to QF Cairns is losing potentially 100,000 pax through DRW and another 100,000 pax from NRT plus maybe another 40,000 to eastern Japan cities.

So the impact on local business is calculated at well over $100 million per year on a city of just 150,000 population, which depends on tourism for its prosperity.

Apart from the obvious job losses at QF (pilots, ground crew etc moved or out of work), the knock on effect to the tourism industry will destroy some businesses and many jobs.

SIGNIFICANTLY, local government and tourism leaders here obviously had no idea that QF was going to be so extreme in its cuts - there apparently had been no communication with key local bodies.

There needs to be an integrated marketing campaign to unite the efforts of airline(s) and local business with government backing as appropriate. This isn't happening and obviously QF doesn't givea stuff about the community that has both supported it and relies upon it.

What annoys me is that the airline will cry poor to the Fed Gov to garner protectionism on key routes (Oz-US) and play the patriotism card in branding, but make blatantly self interested business decisions without any regard to the interests of their staff, the nation or local communities.

And no, I don't think they have done their homework in terms of their market reserach.



:evil::evil::evil::evil::evil:

Just came back from Cairns/Port Douglas over the weekend, and I saw the front page news of QF cutting services on Cairns Post. Lots of people complaining and claiming their business is going to close down because of this .....

But the newspaper also claims that the Queensland government only cares the SEQ and TNQ in terms of promotion, and also claims that Cairns/Port Douglas needs to do a image workover as people are thinking that it is tired and old and not as much excitment as Gold Coast ...... I have to agree on this as this is my second time coming to Cairns and somehow this time I feel a bit bored staying at Cairns and Port Douglas .......

Whilst I had a lot of fun at Great Barrier Reef, my only worry is that the activities at Cairns and Port Douglas are actually quite expensive, and people would decide to just go overseas (like Thailand) where activities costs are cheap, especially now that there are plenty of LCCs servicing Asia, as well as strong Australian dollar. May be they really need to somehow reduce their charges on hotels/activities etc, otherwise I can see Cairns/Port Douglas really lose out. Afterall, not many people go to Cairns/Port Douglas for business.

I am suprised that for a city that is so dependent on tourism they have not formed stronger body to provide a stronger voice at government level and QF senior management level. They could have done so much more.
 
Am surprised to see that there are no CBR routes on the top ten list. Always thought it was a contender for one of the busier routes, particularly the CBR-SYD return.
 
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