QANTAS "Loyalty"? lol

[ntn001]

This complaint has sat with me for nearly a year. I am a small business owner who is a lifetime gold FF member. I make this point because I personally made the decision that me, my staff and subcontractors would fly QANTAS since July 2000 when I began my business and August 2003 when I joined the program. Added to this, my family fly QANTAS for our holidays. Until recent years this was beneficial to us all and, of course, rewarded and seemingly appreciated by QANTAS.

These decisions are made by me. I could choose to fly Ansett and then Virgin and accumulate points and status on Star Alliance.

Lately, it would appear all of the preferential treatment, the business class seats, the upgrades are full of FIFO staff who work for large corporations who have no loyalty to QANTAS. They spend no money with QANTAS and only fly QF because their employer has made a deal with QANTAS for them to do so.

My 21+ years of loyalty and advocacy for QANTAS, the money I have chosen to spend with the company has been completely disregarded.

To my issue, on 20 January last year (2023) I booked my flight to London to attend the RWC2023 pretty much as soon as the flights became available. I also applied for a class upgrade immediately on booking my ticket (ie First in First served type of thing). Finally, when I could select my seat, I paid for my preferred economy class seats (exit rows to give easy access and leg room) as a fall back should I not be granted an upgrade. In the months following, I erroneously believed that being a Gold QFF member (and Lifetime no less) would give me some privilege. I was smugly confident.

In the days prior to departure, I was informed that my points upgrade request for QF51 Bne-Sin leg had been successful.

Then, to my horror, at 9:59pm on 21 Sept (12 hours before my scheduled departure) I was notified my flight had been cancelled .

That’s ok. These things happen.

HOWEVER, I was required to sit on the phone from 10pm Thursday evening until 2am Friday morning and was finally offered an alternative for my Friday morning flight: a flight via Melbourne then London ... departing SUNDAY evening. That’s outrageous! I needed to be in London and then France for the weekend.

Whilst the agent was providing me with excuses and unacceptable plans, I actually logged onto QANTAS.com to find that economy seats on QF1 out of Sydney on FRIDAY MORNING were still available and I directed the agent to book me on that. I then had to pay for my own Bne-Syd flight to meet this (my Bne-Mel would have been free mind you).

Of course I lost my business class upgrade as well as my exit row window seat preference.

Then, and this is the real kick in the guts, when I settled into my seat I discovered I was surrounded by Brisbane based travellers who were automatically rerouted and booked on QF1 ex-SYD ... and none were Gold QFF nevermind LIFETIME Gold. So much for honouring loyalty.

During the flight I wandered over to what would have been my economy seat on the Sin-LHR leg and asked when the woman sitting there had reserved it, she said it was allocated overnight. I continued to fume and loudly tell those around me what abysmal treatment I received.

This week I tried to book a short Italian holiday for my wife and I, but there are no Classic Rewards seats available and neither am I able to use points to upgrade.

This tipped me over the edge and I wrote and forwarded this complaint. In response, I received 7,000 Qantas Points as compensation. I specifically stated I didn’t want compensation, only to discuss the issue and raise the problem.

Unfortunately I (and my wife) have 650,000+ OneWorld FF points that we cannot use. This gift of 7,000 points is another white elephant to be valued but unable to be used.

I am now advocating for opening Australia’s airways to competition. I will be writing about my experience to all politicians I can think of to ensure more airlines can fly in and out of the country.

Futile I’m sure, but I have to do something to alleviate my frustration and anger.

Perhaps one day service and loyalty will be returned to this market - or in the least we’ll all stop pretending service is something QANTAS has aspirations to, and we customers will stop expecting to receive it.

 

[pyramidforce]

It is pretty rich of you to expect preferential treatment on account of your lifetime status and decades of spending with the airline. Australia is an egalitarian society and paying more money, such as for exit row seats or a business class upgrade, doesn't mean you get better seats or treatment on the airplane. Everyone is treated equally (poorly).

/s

As a dear and valued friend on the AFF community, I am more than happy to receive your 650,000 points if you no longer have a use for them.

 

[jase05]

I do get you pain but to your bit about FIFO’s, the companies are spending millions with QF so QF should be looking after their better customers and as sad as it sounds your spend with the airline is quite minimal in comparison. QF and OW also has many more people with far higher status that are therefore entitled to better perks aswell

Unfortunately I (and my wife) have 650,000+ OneWorld FF points that we cannot use. This gift of 7,000 points is another white elephant to be valued but unable to be used

Just because you can’t find the exact flights you want it doesn’t mean the points are unable to be used. There might not be a heap of reward availability ex Australia but there is stacks of availability on many other routes around the world and 650k of points would get you some very good flights if you are willing to be flexible and do some research

 

[aikman]

My 21+ years of loyalty and advocacy for QANTAS, the money I have chosen to spend with the company has been completely disregarded.

Sad but true. The huge numbers of Platinums out there outrank you I'm afraid.

 

[Mwenenzi]

Lately, it would appear all of the preferential treatment, the business class seats, the upgrades are full of FIFO staff who work for large corporations who have no loyalty to QANTAS. They spend no money with QANTAS and only fly QF because their employer has made a deal with QANTAS for them to do so.

Do you have credible verifiable evidence of that? QF internal documentation?
Some FIFO workers fly a lot and have top QF status. Many people fly with tickets paid by others people/business money. All $$ have the same color and value.

Whilst the agent was providing me with excuses and unacceptable plans, I actually logged onto QANTAS.com to find that economy seats on QF1 out of Sydney on FRIDAY MORNING were still available and I directed the agent to book me on that. I then had to pay for my own Bne-Syd flight to meet this (my Bne-Mel would have been free mind you).

Of course I lost my business class upgrade as well as my exit row window seat preference.

Did you contact QF again to be accommodated. Unsure why you chose to pay for BNE-SYD. Did you ask the QF agent for BNE -SYD-SIN?

Then, and this is the real kick in the guts, when I settled into my seat I discovered I was surrounded by Brisbane based travellers who were automatically rerouted and booked on QF1 ex-SYD ... and none were Gold QFF nevermind LIFETIME Gold. So much for honouring loyalty.

Do you have credible verifiable evidence of that? QF internal documentation? Why did you not press QF phone agent for a seat on a BNE-SYD flight originally. [Or is "agent" your travel agent?] Did you cancel QF51 BNE-SIN or (request?) change SYD-SIN. When cancellations ~ disruptions happen always better to look online first and then suggest replacement flights to QF phone agents. Can be 100's of people being re-accommodated at the same time

During the flight I wandered over to what would have been my economy seat on the Sin-LHR leg and asked when the woman sitting there had reserved it, she said it was allocated overnight. I continued to fume and loudly tell those around me what abysmal treatment I received.

How was it your "my economy seat" when booked QF51 BNE-SIN. The seat allocation for your booked QF1 SIN-LHR? Many seats are allocated in the 24hrs before a flight. When disruptions can be more seat allocation changes.

Unfortunately I (and my wife) have 650,000+ OneWorld FF points that we cannot use. This gift of 7,000 points is another white elephant to be valued but unable to be used.

No such thing as Oneworld ff points. Need to be accurate.
People here on AFF have suggested paid flights to Asia and than Aisa - UK/EU QF business class awards. Are way more people looking for (long haul) awards than availability. Are many millions of QF points in ff accounts.

I am now advocating for opening Australia’s airways to competition. I will be writing about my experience to all politicians I can think of to ensure more airlines can fly in and out of the country.

Looked at how many (non Australian) airlines fly into and out of Australia? 50 - 100? Look at the airport web sites. By world standards AU is very liberal aviation policy. [compare with USA & EU] And you can join the freq flyer programs of those airlines, if they have a ffp. Some allow you to credit QF flights (earn ff miles/points/avios)

If Australia had EC261 type legislation may have some compensation and/or reimbursement

 

[levelnine]

Never understood why someone feels loyalty to a corporation. A corporation feels no loyalty to you. You are just a number on their spreadsheet, and not even a significant number at that.

 

[muppet]

I could choose to fly Ansett and then Virgin and accumulate points and status on Star Alliance.

Those Ansett points would have vanished into thin air on 13 September 2001 and Virgin has never been part of Star Alliance.

HOWEVER, I was required to sit on the phone from 10pm Thursday evening until 2am Friday morning and was finally offered an alternative for my Friday morning flight: a flight via Melbourne then London ... departing SUNDAY evening. That’s outrageous! I needed to be in London and then France for the weekend.

Whilst the agent was providing me with excuses and unacceptable plans, I actually logged onto QANTAS.com to find that economy seats on QF1 out of Sydney on FRIDAY MORNING were still available and I directed the agent to book me on that. I then had to pay for my own Bne-Syd flight to meet this (my Bne-Mel would have been free mind you).

A legitimate complaint, QF should have re-routed you on its next available service at no additional cost to you.

During the flight I wandered over to what would have been my economy seat on the Sin-LHR leg and asked when the woman sitting there had reserved it, she said it was allocated overnight. I continued to fume and loudly tell those around me what abysmal treatment I received.

Wow. This is where you lost me, we all need a vent and whinge from time to time, and i’m no exception - but this is childish.

 

[TheInsider]

This week I tried to book a short Italian holiday for my wife and I, but there are no Classic Rewards seats available and neither am I able to use points to upgrade.

This tipped me over the edge and I wrote and forwarded this complaint. In response, I received 7,000 Qantas Points as compensation. I specifically stated I didn’t want compensation, only to discuss the issue and raise the problem.

Of course you can use points to upgrade on international fares (excl sale and something else)? What do you mean?

A complaint that is 18 months old, may time to move on.

 

[justinbrett]

Gold may actually be a higher status than lifetime gold, as those pax are currently spending enough to requalify, where as LTG may not be spending much at all. Of course the perks are the same but when it comes to ranking pax other factors like these come into play.

QF doesn't care who is paying for a pax to fly - whether that's a wealthy corporation, small business or personal. There's also plenty of members on here that have QF status that quite clearly have no loyalty to QF. That's not how it works.

 

[TheInsider]

I am now advocating for opening Australia’s airways to competition. I will be writing about my experience to all politicians I can think of to ensure more airlines can fly in and out of the country.

How many more airlines do you want to fly into the country, there are already a LOT. Quite a pointless exercise writing to all politicians when you don't seem to understand why some can/can't.

 

[thrillho]

Not sure this is how old mate OP expected to be received when writing this thread, but it seems he misread the situation, much like in his experiences

 

[elanshin]

I feel sorry that you had this interaction.

I do have to say though, as with everything in life knowing how the game works is far more important. Just like you may have every in and out of your business figured out, knowing how QFF works in 2024 and airline industry in general often leads to much better results overall.

 

[RichardMEL]

How many more airlines do you want to fly into the country, there are already a LOT. Quite a pointless exercise writing to all politicians when you don't seem to understand why some can/can't.

Well now that you mention it, I do think there's room for LOT to come in and fly the highly underserved MEL-xMNL-WAW route.....

 

[p--and--t]

I continued to fume and loudly tell those around me what abysmal treatment I received.

Just lovely. Made everyone else's long flight a real joy I'm sure

DYKWIA

/sarcasm in case anyone misses it/

 

[RichardMEL]

Well, that was certainly an entertaining rant and I enjoyed the read. I personally feel there's some misplaced anger here, mixed with clearly understandable frustration, but just a hint of entitlement and also a bit of a lack of knowledge (which is fair enough too). So like others, I'll put my two bob's in for what it's worth (since you posted for a reaction...).

I'm not sure why you have sat on this for so long - specially before contacting QF? At least that's how it reads. Perhaps I'm misunderstanding that aspect of it.

I feel your ire at the FIFO workers is really not fair. Many fly every two weeks (or so) to and from the minds, and often they can be transcon flights. That activity adds up and they would have higher status. Why be angry about that? That's travel for their jobs. Indeed, I also find it ironic since you mentioned you decided to fly your staff and subcontractors QF. So, those folks were flying on your company dime and may have achieved status as part of that.. yet others do the same thing and now somehow it's unfair? I'm a bit confused.

You also say you(and family) well looked after and you enjoyed what you got out of the engagement up until recently. So for twenty odd years it worked for you. Great.

Now, OK, so you booked BNE-SIN-LHR, and then BNE-SIN was cancelled. That's unfortunate. I agree with you, and everyone else, you should have been automatically moved to BNE-SYD-LHR. Why weren't you? Don't know. Perhaps you got onto the (poor) phone agent before that processing was done and they didn't do the obvious thing (or perhaps, since they flights were being rebooked, they saw no availability - this may explain why they didn't put you on BNE-SYD - but even that makes no sense. Still, this is going back over a year so really that seems like an agent screw up somehow which is really not good).

However, I would say this regarding "your" exit row seat. In your original booking, you had booked BNE-SIN-LHR, ie QF1 SIN-LHR. I am willing to bet that when you were rebooked to SYD-LHR on the QF1, of course that SIN-LHR sector was cancelled, and your exit row seat with it of course (and I assume you got that payment refunded - though you didn't say). At that point, it became open, and clearly was allocated to the person who ended up to it and within T-24. That's unfortunate, but that can happen with irrops unfortunately. That you admit to fuming about it for that flight says more about you though. The sequence of likely events that led to this are quite understandable. I know how it looks, but it does seem you overreacted a tad. I certainly hope you didn't take your anger out on the flight crews - because absolutely all of that was well out of their control.

Did you follow up immediately post flight? 7k points does seem to be not the best compensation, although you did (through your proactive action with the agent) end up getting to LHR on time to make the Rugby (and the teachable lesson from this experience is to put a couple of days buffer for long haul travel and important events one wants to be there for, because Stuff Happens).

However, you then go on to comment about your (and wife's) 650,000 "oneworld" points. Not a thing. I assume you mean QFF points - which can be used on both oneworld partners, and other QF partners (such as Emirates, Air France, etc). Further you comment not being able to get reward seats for an holiday in Italy. It can be hard, but it can also depend how flexible you are/were with looking, how far ahead you tried and so on (remembering QF's FCO service is seasonal, and other reward options would likely be on EK - which yes, one can't upgrade with QFF points).

Gold is a good status to have. Many feel it is the "sweet spot" of the program, but the reality is that there are folks with higher status levels - Platinum, P1 etc, those on higher fares and the like. That's the way it is. Yes, you had an unfortunate experience resulting from a cancelled flight, but what pushed you over the edge seemingly was inaility to secure reward seats to Italy (with scant detal on that)? That's fine to be frustrated and annoyed, but there are some parts of this that seem a little over the top tbh.

I hope you get better treatment from the next airline group you choose to take you bat and ball.. I mean business.. to... (but you can still use those onew...QFF points for any number of things I'm sure - just try to be a bit more flexible with your searching and expectation)..

Now you have that off your chest, I hope you have a nice weekend, crack open a vino or two and as the song says "let it go" Life's too short to hold on to things like this that you can't do much about now. I hope venting has helped!

 

[ntn001]

Do you have credible verifiable evidence of that? QF internal documentation?
Some FIFO workers fly a lot and have top QF status. Many people fly with tickets paid by others people/business money. All $$ have the same color and value.


Did you contact QF again to be accommodated. Unsure why you chose to pay for BNE-SYD. Did you ask the QF agent for BNE -SYD-SIN?

Do you have credible verifiable evidence of that? QF internal documentation? Why did you not press QF phone agent for a seat on a BNE-SYD flight originally. [Or is "agent" your travel agent?] Did you cancel QF51 BNE-SIN or (request?) change SYD-SIN. When cancellations ~ disruptions happen always better to look online first and then suggest replacement flights to QF phone agents. Can be 100's of people being re-accommodated at the same time

How was it your "my economy seat" when booked QF51 BNE-SIN. The seat allocation for your booked QF1 SIN-LHR? Many seats are allocated in the 24hrs before a flight. When disruptions can be more seat allocation changes.


No such thing as Oneworld ff points. Need to be accurate.
People here on AFF have suggested paid flights to Asia and than Aisa - UK/EU QF business class awards. Are way more people looking for (long haul) awards than availability. Are many millions of QF points in ff accounts.


Looked at how many (non Australian) airlines fly into and out of Australia? 50 - 100? Look at the airport web sites. By world standards AU is very liberal aviation policy. [compare with USA & EU] And you can join the freq flyer programs of those airlines, if they have a ffp. Some allow you to credit QF flights (earn ff miles/points/avios)

If Australia had EC261 type legislation may have some compensation and/or reimbursement

Sorry I didn't mean to offend you. Clearly you don't make the decision of who to fly and enjoy your status courtesy of an employer. You miss my point, quite intentionally it appears, that the myth of loyalty is no longer real.

"Did you contact QF again to be accommodated." Not sure what you mean. Yes! I sat on the phone from 10pm until 2am negotiating to be accommodated to fly to London.

"Do you have credible verifiable evidence of that? QF internal documentation? Why did you not press QF phone agent for a seat on a BNE-SYD flight originally. [Or is "agent" your travel agent?] Did you cancel QF51 BNE-SIN or (request?) change SYD-SIN. When cancellations ~ disruptions happen always better to look online first and then suggest replacement flights to QF phone agents. Can be 100's of people being re-accommodated at the same time" Do you work for QF?

"Do you have credible verifiable evidence of that?" I spoke with everyone in the two rows surrounding my seat and polled people. Unfortunately, I didn't expect to provide this evidence on this forum. Next time I'll be more aware.

I have been very clear throughout I seek no compensation but the opportunity to vent about how my loyalty has been considered. Where once a GoldFF was considered a valued customer, nowadays it appears not.

 

[ntn001]

Well, that was certainly an entertaining rant and I enjoyed the read. I personally feel there's some misplaced anger here, mixed with clearly understandable frustration, but just a hint of entitlement and also a bit of a lack of knowledge (which is fair enough too). So like others, I'll put my two bob's in for what it's worth (since you posted for a reaction...).

I'm not sure why you have sat on this for so long - specially before contacting QF? At least that's how it reads. Perhaps I'm misunderstanding that aspect of it.

I feel your ire at the FIFO workers is really not fair. Many fly every two weeks (or so) to and from the minds, and often they can be transcon flights. That activity adds up and they would have higher status. Why be angry about that? That's travel for their jobs. Indeed, I also find it ironic since you mentioned you decided to fly your staff and subcontractors QF. So, those folks were flying on your company dime and may have achieved status as part of that.. yet others do the same thing and now somehow it's unfair? I'm a bit confused.

You also say you(and family) well looked after and you enjoyed what you got out of the engagement up until recently. So for twenty odd years it worked for you. Great.

Now, OK, so you booked BNE-SIN-LHR, and then BNE-SIN was cancelled. That's unfortunate. I agree with you, and everyone else, you should have been automatically moved to BNE-SYD-LHR. Why weren't you? Don't know. Perhaps you got onto the (poor) phone agent before that processing was done and they didn't do the obvious thing (or perhaps, since they flights were being rebooked, they saw no availability - this may explain why they didn't put you on BNE-SYD - but even that makes no sense. Still, this is going back over a year so really that seems like an agent screw up somehow which is really not good).

However, I would say this regarding "your" exit row seat. In your original booking, you had booked BNE-SIN-LHR, ie QF1 SIN-LHR. I am willing to bet that when you were rebooked to SYD-LHR on the QF1, of course that SIN-LHR sector was cancelled, and your exit row seat with it of course (and I assume you got that payment refunded - though you didn't say). At that point, it became open, and clearly was allocated to the person who ended up to it and within T-24. That's unfortunate, but that can happen with irrops unfortunately. That you admit to fuming about it for that flight says more about you though. The sequence of likely events that led to this are quite understandable. I know how it looks, but it does seem you overreacted a tad. I certainly hope you didn't take your anger out on the flight crews - because absolutely all of that was well out of their control.

Did you follow up immediately post flight? 7k points does seem to be not the best compensation, although you did (through your proactive action with the agent) end up getting to LHR on time to make the Rugby (and the teachable lesson from this experience is to put a couple of days buffer for long haul travel and important events one wants to be there for, because Stuff Happens).

However, you then go on to comment about your (and wife's) 650,000 "oneworld" points. Not a thing. I assume you mean QFF points - which can be used on both oneworld partners, and other QF partners (such as Emirates, Air France, etc). Further you comment not being able to get reward seats for an holiday in Italy. It can be hard, but it can also depend how flexible you are/were with looking, how far ahead you tried and so on (remembering QF's FCO service is seasonal, and other reward options would likely be on EK - which yes, one can't upgrade with QFF points).

Gold is a good status to have. Many feel it is the "sweet spot" of the program, but the reality is that there are folks with higher status levels - Platinum, P1 etc, those on higher fares and the like. That's the way it is. Yes, you had an unfortunate experience resulting from a cancelled flight, but what pushed you over the edge seemingly was inaility to secure reward seats to Italy (with scant detal on that)? That's fine to be frustrated and annoyed, but there are some parts of this that seem a little over the top tbh.

I hope you get better treatment from the next airline group you choose to take you bat and ball.. I mean business.. to... (but you can still use those onew...QFF points for any number of things I'm sure - just try to be a bit more flexible with your searching and expectation)..

Now you have that off your chest, I hope you have a nice weekend, crack open a vino or two and as the song says "let it go" Life's too short to hold on to things like this that you can't do much about now. I hope venting has helped!

You have taken this in the spirit with which I intended. I wanted to rant. I realise as Canute failed, so will I. Yes, I fully understand Oneworldpoints don't exist, I don't know why I wrote it, perhaps because I was sick of writing Qantas.

I take no aim at FIFO workers. It is the rod QF has created for their own back. However, I understand (correct me if I am wrong) Government workers get no FF benefits from the relationships.

Anyway, this was a rant and given the duopoly, there is nothing to be done.

 

[Pushka]

Where once a GoldFF was considered a valued customer, nowadays it appears not.

Sadly this is true. And it isn't just a Qantas issue. No one values loyalty. Once you accept that you can move on. And use that knowledge for your own benefit where possible.

I ran into a similar issue a few months ago where as Business passengers we were removed from our seats because two tech staff needed to fly and under their award they must fly business. Two WP with one being LTG. Meant diddly squat. The CSM however was mortified and looked after us beautifully.

 

[ntn001]

Just lovely. Made everyone else's long flight a real joy I'm sure

DYKWIA

/sarcasm in case anyone misses it/

Nah. I overstated that. We all talked and agreed on the discomfort and it was over before we left the mainland. Not sure why I wrote it other than I was in the groove (this is 12months later). And of course, I never made the staff feel my pain - it is only the lowest of humans who mistreat service staff.

 

[p--and--t]

Sadly this is true. And it isn't just a Qantas issue. No one values loyalty. Once you accept that you can move on. And use that knowledge for your own benefit where possible.

Isn't it more that Gold has several levels above it for people that are more loyal and spend a lot more such that some golden triangle flights greater than 30% of passengers are "statused". Also there are far less J seats on any one flight that statused passengers and on every flight there will be contention for what is available.

Perhaps the "barriers" for status are too low and the whole scheme too popular such that loyal lower spend passengers don't have a look in.