Qantas. Perth Airport head to court

[codash1099]

This dispute seems to have been simmering for a while.

https://www.watoday.com.au/business...1m-in-unpaid-runway-fees-20181217-p50msn.html

 

[33kft]

$27.8m in runway fees seems like a fair chunk of change to charge one airline over a quarter, especially considering it is Perth. It's one of what I'd suggest would be a fair few fees for QANTAS to operate from the airport. Certainly puts it into perspective.

 

[AustraliaPoochie]

Under 6 landings a day, 2 to take off and landing for the one to LHR, and 2/4 per take off and landing for the one to SIN.
Does QF still only do one set (1 take off and one landing for SIN or is there 2 sets)?
Aud$27.8m per quarter, x 4 for a year, is a huge tidy sum of earnings for PER airport, I can see why QF is not too pleased.

 

[Danger]

"We are willing to pay fair and reasonable charges but want to ensure that our customers are not paying more in airport charges than is absolutely necessary."

Oh this is hilarious. Just too funny. Because Qantas never price gouges or ups (or keeps) fuel fines when fuel drops. No, no. Qantas, you're 100% for the customer. Yep. Absolutely.

 

[flying_double]

Under 6 landings a day, 2 to take off and landing for the one to LHR, and 2/4 per take off and landing for the one to SIN.
Does QF still only do one set (1 take off and one landing for SIN or is there 2 sets)?
Aud$27.8m per quarter, x 4 for a year, is a huge tidy sum of earnings for PER airport, I can see why QF is not too pleased.

You do realise that Qantas is Australia’s biggest domestic airline group and has a significant presence in Perth via Qantas, QantasLink and Jetstar, which it also has to pay the airport for?

Also if I’m being picky about your attempt at maths to justify the outrage, the $27.8m relates to 1 July to 31 October, which is a 4 month period, not 3 (so it’s 33.3% more than a quarter).

Qantas should ask the good people of Perth, particular West Coast Eagles fans, what they think of airline behaviour. Qantas, the great protector of consumers. Laughable.

 

[Comoman]

Under 6 landings a day, 2 to take off and landing for the one to LHR, and 2/4 per take off and landing for the one to SIN.
Does QF still only do one set (1 take off and one landing for SIN or is there 2 sets)?
Aud$27.8m per quarter, x 4 for a year, is a huge tidy sum of earnings for PER airport, I can see why QF is not too pleased.

QF has way more than 6 movements per day. 6 international flight movements maybe. Could easily be around 100 for QF group as a whole per day.

QF have taken the airport fees in the ticket as movement charge etc.

 

[oz_mark]

There's per passenger charges, and there's per tonne charges. Certainly the per passenger charges are passed on.
A landing and take off is charged in the order of about $8 per tonne (MTOW or landed weight as the case may be). That can add up . It's also why the airlines sometime derate their aircraft to a lower MTOW.

 

[**TBA**]

You do realise that Qantas is Australia’s biggest domestic airline group and has a significant presence in Perth via Qantas, QantasLink and Jetstar, which it also has to pay the airport for?

Qantas doesn't pay Jetstar's airport charges.. They have completely different charges.

I would argue that airports have much higher profit margins than airlines do.. At least MEL / SYD etc.

 

[33kft]

Qantas doesn't pay Jetstar's airport charges.. They have completely different charges.

The article does specify that the new levies were imposed on Qantas Group entities (Qantas, QantasLink and Jetstar) so it is entirely likely for the purpose of journalists giving a big round number that they have specified the cost to the entire group, but without going into more detail I don't see clarification of the distinction between the airline and the corporate entity in the article.

 

[**TBA**]

The article does specify that the new levies were imposed on Qantas Group entities (Qantas, QantasLink and Jetstar) so it is entirely likely for the purpose of journalists giving a big round number that they have specified the cost to the entire group, but without going into more detail I don't see clarification of the distinction between the airline and the corporate entity in the article.

You're right! i read an article yesterday that said all other airlines (including Jetstar) had come to an agreement, but looks like that was incorrect and it is Qantas Group. Interesting.. Well they have more bargaining power doing it together I guess.

 

[cosi]

QF side of the augment

https://thewest.com.au/news/aviatio...egal-stoush-with-perth-airport-ng-b881053137z

 

[kevrosmith]

There's per passenger charges, and there's per tonne charges. Certainly the per passenger charges are passed on.
A landing and take off is charged in the order of about $8 per tonne (MTOW or landed weight as the case may be). That can add up . It's also why the airlines sometime derate their aircraft to a lower MTOW.

Airports tend not to use MTOW charges for domestic and international Regular Passenger Transport (RPT) services. Some General Aviation and Freight services are charged using MTOW.

All the standard per passenger charges are published on each Airport's website. e.g.
Melbourne: Melbourne Airport - Facilities for Airliners at Melbourne Airport | Melbourne Airport
Sydney: Operating at Sydney Airport
Brisbane: Aviation Services and Charges - Brisbane Airport
Perth: Perth Airport - Corporate | Airport charges

Without an individual Airlines Services Agreement (ASA), which is mentioned in the article and apparently Perth Airport has been trying to re-negotiate with QF the last 18 months, the airport will just charge its standard rack rates, which is obviously what they are doing now that QF has failed to agree on individual ASA rates. The indivdual ASA rates are usually commericial-in-confidence, and often have incentive-driven price points for encouraging passenger growth. (e.g. the rates will fall if certain targets are reached throughout the life of the agreement).

Make no mistake, QF push their heavy weight around when it comes to negotiating these rates at airports. Airports are not the big-bad bullies that people accuse them of being. Airports are capital-intensive businesses which require a lot of cash to build, operate and maintain. QF are obviously just trying to play the game here to get a better rate. From the airline's perspective, while they do pass the charge directly onto the passenger, higher airport fees/taxes obviously reduces their profit margin on the fare they advertise (which includes fees and taxes). They just want their cake (advertise lower fares) and eat it too (make higher profit margins).

Air Services Charges, which are charges by Air Services Australia, are different, and still tend to be based on aircraft MTOW. Aviation charging | Airservices

 

[AustraliaPoochie]

QF has way more than 6 movements per day. 6 international flight movements maybe. Could easily be around 100 for QF group as a whole per day.

Ah, I should have elaborated, yep, meant to say that the numbers I mentioned were to be QF international flight related only, but if we do take their domestic services, yes, it would be a lot of planes per day/week/month.

 

[Hvr]

Airports are not the big-bad bullies that people accuse them of being.

Maybe not always, but they're by no means clean skins in the extortionate charging game. Paid for a car park recently?

 

[JohnK]

Business vs Business. None of my business. Let them fight it out....

 

[dajop]

Business vs Business. None of my business.

Unless business passes cost on to customer, and its a few more $$ to your commute .....

 

[pauly7]

Have a review of the major airports historical margins versus our major airlines historical margins and then see who you feel sorry for . I know what I would rather own!

 

[kevrosmith]

Keep in mind that most of us probably already own parts of all the airports around Australia, as many Superannuation funds heavily invest in capital-intensive industries, such as Airports. So from that perspective, people are often happy when their superannuation balances increase, but don't often equate that to the actual investments made by those funds and the profits which need to be made in order for that increase to be realised.

 

[JohnK]

Unless business passes cost on to customer, and its a few more $$ to your commute .....

They have already. Domestic airfares are at their highest in my time. Can it get worse?

 

[Bagpuss]

Maybe not always, but they're by no means clean skins in the extortionate charging game. Paid for a car park recently?

I have at Perth Airport. Taking I only live 20 minutes from the airport if I am going away for a weekend it is cheaper to park at the airport than use Uber/a taxi.

Perth Airport does offer 1 hour free parking too, so I have no issues with the Perth Airport parking charges.