Qantas Project Sunrise goes ahead, 12 new A350-1000s ordered

[JohnK]

You do realise people actually live in Perth? So for folks in Perth looking to get to London it's incredibly convenient. Suspect that's why it's so successful.

Sure but why add-on MEL-PER leg? Not enough PER passengers to make it work?

Anyway good luck to anyone that can spend that long in a cramped economy cabin.

 

[NM]

Sure but why add-on MEL-PER leg? Not enough PER passengers to make it work?

Anyway good luck to anyone that can spend that long in a cramped economy cabin.

Got to get the aircraft from east coast to west coast some how.

 

[exceladdict]

Got to get the aircraft from east coast to west coast some how.

Yeah, I'm not sure how the rotation will work when the MEL leg drops shortly - possibly something in tandem with the syd/per/FCO and CDG flights which are retaining the tag flights. Where are the crews based?

 

[jrfsp]

Sure but why add-on MEL-PER leg? Not enough PER passengers to make it work?

Anyway good luck to anyone that can spend that long in a cramped economy cabin.

Was a good way for PER pax to connect onto QF93 too.

All mute now with the MEL tag being axed.

 

[wandering_fred]

You do realise people actually live in Perth? So for folks in Perth looking to get to London it's incredibly convenient. Suspect that's why it's so successful.

Perhaps it is the lousy QF connections from PER to SE Asia (and SIN in particular)?
If you are willing to fly JQ maybe the newly scheduled flights later in the year will "help"
Though I doubt the QF/JQ combination will ever compete with SQ/Scoot/Air Asia for the mass market.
Happy wandering?
Fred

 

[downgraded]

Was a good way for PER pax to connect onto QF93 too.

All mute now with the MEL tag being axed.

Interesting how much of QF9/10 traffic is from MEL? I imagine it'll plummet once it only goes from PER. Not starting a flight to LHR with a 737 leg.

 

[elanshin]

Interesting how much of QF9/10 traffic is from MEL? I imagine it'll plummet once it only goes from PER. Not starting a flight to LHR with a 737 leg.

Not significant enough would be my guess. Remember QF has all this data. they don't need to speculate how this will go - they already know and made a decision based on that.

 

[pm3207]

Not having a same plane service from MEL to LHR is an absolute travesty. Shows how poor fleet planning has been. Would agree that traffic out of MEL to LHR will go via other means.

 

[RSVKanga]

Not having a same plane service from MEL to LHR is an absolute travesty.

This issue could easily be fixed by removing the QF 787 from HNL services. I find HNL as an insignificant and irrelevant destination for such a premium aircraft - should stick to JQ and the QF A330s.

 

[elanshin]

This issue could easily be fixed by removing the QF 787 from HNL services. I find HNL as an insignificant and irrelevant destination for such a premium aircraft - should stick to JQ and the QF A330s.

Funny that QF disagres with you. They pulled that aircraft from SYD -HND to run the route to HNL.

Also I'm not sure if the 787s could be called a premium aircraft. Boeing's QA woes started with the 787s for the most part (before the max was even out of the design books).

 

[Himeno]

This issue could easily be fixed by removing the QF 787 from HNL services. I find HNL as an insignificant and irrelevant destination for such a premium aircraft - should stick to JQ and the QF A330s.

Can a 737-800 get to HNL via Fiji? Maybe they can send 737s to HNL and use the widebodies for Asia

 

[RSVKanga]

why the add-on MEL-PER leg?

The add on MEL-PER leg wasn’t a choice, it was apparently a requirement until recently due to slot constraints and restrictions on QF.


Australian Parliament - 4 September 2023 - House of Representatives Hansard



Remarkably just a few weeks after this speech was made in Parliament on 4 September, QF was able to axe the MEL-PER 787 leg and announce new regular services to Paris, addressing those two issues outlined in the speech which have prolonged for years and years.

QF is still a very disadvantaged airline when it comes to the AU-UK corridor and almost non-existent in the AU-EU corridor, hopefully Project Sunrise, improved relations with PER and the Government keeping QR at bay will increase the frequency, availability and number of destinations for QF in EU/UK over the next three years.

 

[MooTime]

Not significant enough would be my guess. Remember QF has all this data. they don't need to speculate how this will go - they already know and made a decision based on that.

To just say QF have the data and by that they know what they doing is a little plain silly.

Cutting the MEL leg is of course not beneficial.
Yes they have the data on how many pax originate from Mel, but hardly to be considered full proof. How's much of that has incorporated TK arriving. You can bet other ME Airlines may increase their offerings/ lower prices at the time.

All business decisions based on data, yet many things fail, many failings on QF's part in the past, yet with data.

Once you plan for the future there's always speculation to some degree.

 

[dajop]

Not having a same plane service from MEL to LHR is an absolute travesty. Shows how poor fleet planning has been. Would agree that traffic out of MEL to LHR will go via other means.

Other means being Qf37/1 and Qf2/36 of course. It makes sense to direct passengers to helping fill QF 1/2 in the SIN/LHR sectors.

Also the timing into MEL of QF10 was shockingly bad for QF - whose passengers vastly prefer to arrive on the east coast first thing in the morning. Because no one except QR, EK, CX, SQ, MH, TK and TG passengers like arriving early evening

 

[elanshin]

To just say QF have the data and by that they know what they doing is a little plain silly.

Cutting the MEL leg is of course not beneficial.
Yes they have the data on how many pax originate from Mel, but hardly to be considered full proof. How's much of that has incorporated TK arriving. You can bet other ME Airlines may increase their offerings/ lower prices at the time.

All business decisions based on data, yet many things fail, many failings on QF's part in the past, yet with data.

Once you plan for the future there's always speculation to some degree.

The point isnt that data is foolproof. But I would say however it is much more statically likely that the data they have is better than our armchair deliberations on whether a route will succeed or fail based on anecdotal feelings.

 

[Himeno]

The add on MEL-PER leg wasn’t a choice, it was apparently a requirement until recently due to slot constraints and restrictions on QF.

Australia has open skies with the UK. There is nothing limiting the amount of flights an Australian airline can send to the UK. There may be onward 5th freedom limits at selected midpoints throughout Asia and the European mainland.

The LHR issue is slot based. Qantas has 4 slot pairs at LHR, 2 of which are currently leased to BA. Without advising BA that they need those slots back, and waiting for BA to release them back with the next seasonal schedule change, QF is limited to 2 LHR slots.

 

[wandering_fred]

Can a 737-800 get to HNL via Fiji? Maybe they can send 737s to HNL and use the widebodies for Asia

737-800 nominal range is about 3500 miles with NAN-HNL being about 3200.....
So practically speaking -probably not.
JQ A321-neo/LRs would have a range of 4400 plus. And the XLR variant over 5000
But then VA seems to be willing to push the limits, so you knows where a narrow body will see you wandering.
Fred

 

[RSVKanga]

Would the economics stack up for an QF A350 PER-LAX nonstop service?

Since QF have committed to using the A350 on PER-LHR from 2026, one would wonder if there might be an A350 base in Perth with aircraft operating LAX-PER-LHR-PER-LAX. It has also been mentioned a couple of times in local WA papers.

 

[Must...Fly!]

There is no way QF can make PER-LAX work.

 

[elanshin]

Would the economics stack up for an QF A350 PER-LAX nonstop service?

Since QF have committed to using the A350 on PER-LHR from 2026, one would wonder if there might be an A350 base in Perth with aircraft operating LAX-PER-LHR-PER-LAX. It has been mentioned a couple of times in local WA papers.

No. Even if the economics could demand it, from a fleet utilisation POV it won't work until there is a glut of airframes.

QF will still be running a380s until the 2030s. They need to keep the 380s filled up and thus funnelling people into SYD/MEL to fly to LAX.

They also don't have spare a350s to run something like PER - LAX.
They would need aircrafts for SYD - LHR, SYD - JFK and possibly MEL - LHR /JFK or SYD - ORD / DCA before considering PER - LAX.