Qantas Project Sunrise goes ahead, 12 new A350-1000s ordered

[justinbrett]

BNE gate 24 is A350-1000 capable. It can handle max wingspan 65m and max length 71m

 

[sevenfourtyseven]

And 400s after that

Wish they were still around!

 

[Himeno]

In any case they will need 3 of the new aeroplanes to be able to start SYD-LHR or SYD-JFK and another 3 to do the other one of these.

The sunrise flight time from SE AU to LHR is around 21 hours. It is possible to do daily flights with 2 aircraft, but it depends on the airport slots.

 

[evanb]

The sunrise flight time from SE AU to LHR is around 21 hours. It is possible to do daily flights with 2 aircraft, but it depends on the airport slots.

Slots and curfews on both ends. It's certainly possible to do daily SYD-LHR-SYD with two aircraft but not when you only have two of the type and still working on EIS, hence why they'll wait until the third.

On the slots and curfews, it'll require a fairly significant reshaping of their London flights. We did some analysis on it a few weeks back:

Qantas's Project Sunrise: Heathrow slots & Sydney curfew

Project Sunrise has been in the news again with Qantas updating us on their plans to start non-stop flights from Sydney to London and New York.

www.analyticflying.com

 

[SYD]

Slots and curfews on both ends. It's certainly possible to do daily SYD-LHR-SYD with two aircraft but not when you only have two of the type and still working on EIS, hence why they'll wait until the third.

On the slots and curfews, it'll require a fairly significant reshaping of their London flights. We did some analysis on it a few weeks back:

Qantas's Project Sunrise: Heathrow slots & Sydney curfew

Project Sunrise has been in the news again with Qantas updating us on their plans to start non-stop flights from Sydney to London and New York.

www.analyticflying.com

Unless they use WSI at one end at least…it’s even slightly shorter distance to/from LHR!

 

[GDSman]

But as noted above, the 787 is a lot smaller than the A350. The 787 wingspan is 60.1m, slightly less than the A330 (60.3m). Since Qantas has A330 gates at domestic terminals those can likely accommodate the 787. And the 787-9's length of 62.8m is similar to the A330-300 at 63.4 (though not sure if the -300's are/were ever used at domestic gates?).

The A350's wingspan at 64.75 and length of 73.9 m (for the -1000) is a substantially larger plane, and only the A380 has a larger wingspan - I suspect you'll find A350-1000's primarily using A380 gates as a result.

Absolutely take your point...I was really just telling an anecdote...

 

[thebmw]

SYD and PER domestic can accommodate 747-300s as QF used them domestically in the 2000s

Not any more, according to the charts. I don't know if anything has physically changed to stop it, but the largest capacity gate at SYD Dom is A333 (7A, 10, 11, 13) and PER T3/4 is A333 (12 - 14, 15A) and B789 (17A, 18A, 20A).

 

[evanb]

Unless they use WSI at one end at least…it’s even slightly shorter distance to/from LHR!

WSI-STN! Nobody saw it coming

 

[markis10]

Not any more, according to the charts. I don't know if anything has physically changed to stop it, but the largest capacity gate at SYD Dom is A333 (7A, 10, 11, 13) and PER T3/4 is A333 (12 - 14, 15A) and B789 (17A, 18A, 20A).

Just means the NIGS/VDGS is not currently certified for anything else, no point keep certification for types no longer used.

 

[Quickstatus]

Unless they use WSI at one end at least

Problem is as discussed the onward connections into the QF domestic network

 

[evanb]

Problem is as discussed the onward connections into the QF domestic network

Think it was meant as a joke

 

[elanshin]

It would be one way to get WSI to be used

 

[justinbrett]

Not any more, according to the charts. I don't know if anything has physically changed to stop it, but the largest capacity gate at SYD Dom is A333 (7A, 10, 11, 13) and PER T3/4 is A333 (12 - 14, 15A) and B789 (17A, 18A, 20A).

SYD gate 10/11 is rated for 789.

They may well still be capable of 744s but since they're no longer in the fleet no point in putting that on the charts. I suspect they still are.

 

[dajop]

On the slots and curfews, it'll require a fairly significant reshaping of their London flights. We did some analysis on it a few weeks back:

I haven’t at all thought it through, but when they have four aircraft would a SYD-LHR-MEL-LHR-SYD make scheduling any easier?

 

[mviy]

The sunrise flight time from SE AU to LHR is around 21 hours. It is possible to do daily flights with 2 aircraft, but it depends on the airport slots.

Maybe if things run perfectly and you can avoid the curfews at both ends. But there has to be some allowance for delays, planes needing to be taken out of action for maintenance etc.

 

[Quickstatus]

it was meant as a joke

Yes.

The other problem is the operational consequences of a delay. This is a 20hr flight. Most other flights can tolerate a few hrs delay as maximum crew time is in excess of the mission time. I don't know how much delay such flights can tolerate before it is cancelled or diverted somewhere - PER?

Potentially delays out of LHR can be accommodated by positioning sunrise crew at short notice from SYD to PER and diverting the flight to PER (assuming that it does not bump up against any curfew).

Alternatively the airline would want the evening scheduled arrival of Sunrise into SYD to make the evening curfew with whatever maximum crew time they have up their sleeve. So if they have 2hrs to play with they would want a scheduled arrival to be 2100hrs otherwise any delays would mean a cancellation or diverting to as per above.

.....

Will Sunrise allow the kangaroo route to be more punctual because an intermediate stop is removed?

 

[evanb]

I haven’t at all thought it through, but when they have four aircraft would a SYD-LHR-MEL-LHR-SYD make scheduling any easier?

It depends if they can swap some LHR slots for earlier, and that'll be incredibly difficult to do.

 

[mviy]

I haven’t at all thought it through, but when they have four aircraft would a SYD-LHR-MEL-LHR-SYD make scheduling any easier?

They would need at least five for that.

Also I think being SYD-centric QF will want to do SYD-LHR and SYD-JFK before starting MEL flights

 

[justinbrett]

I haven’t at all thought it through, but when they have four aircraft would a SYD-LHR-MEL-LHR-SYD make scheduling any easier?

I suspect SYD-LHR-SYD-JFK-SYD would be easier.

 

[evanb]

I suspect SYD-LHR-SYD-JFK-SYD would be easier.

Unless they're going to overnight the A350 at SYD that's not going to work. Problem is if LHR gets into around 5 or 6pm, anything departing for JFK from 7:30pm gets in at midnight. And then they're into curfew. SYD-JFK will need to be a morning departure.