Qantas Project Sunrise goes ahead, 12 new A350-1000s ordered

[NM]

I wonder if anything has considered doing SYD-LHR-JFK-SYD, and SYD-JFK-LHR-SYD and if that might work for utilisation and avoid any extended tarmac time waiting for slots/curfews?

Someone once said to me "Ahh, now you are thinking outside the box", and I looked them in the eye and said "What box?".

 

[mviy]

I wonder if anything has considered doing SYD-LHR-JFK-SYD, and SYD-JFK-LHR-SYD and if that might work for utilisation and avoid any extended tarmac time waiting for slots/curfews?

Someone once said to me "Ahh, now you are thinking outside the box", and I looked them in the eye and said "What box?".

They would probably only be allowed to fly passengers connecting to/from Australia if at all for LHR-JFK so wouldn’t have a commercial number of passengers. Not enough travellers book RTW tickets to make that work.

 

[mviy]

I suspect SYD-LHR-SYD-JFK-SYD would be easier.

That would still need at least 5 aircraft for that if there were no curfews. They probably would need 6 for that as SYD, LHR and JFK all have curfews.

 

[SYD]

They would probably only be allowed to fly passengers connecting to/from Australia if at all for LHR-JFK so wouldn’t have a commercial number of passengers. Not enough travellers book RTW tickets to make that work.

Not if it had approval at both ends as a 5th freedom flight (but I wouldn’t be holding my breath).

 

[markis10]

Not if it had approval at both ends as a 5th freedom flight (but I wouldn’t be holding my breath).

NZ are looking at LAX-LHR resumption and have suggested JFK-LHR is doable, no reason why QF cannot do similar

 

[SYD]

NZ are looking at LAX-LHR resumption and have suggested JFK-LHR is doable, no reason why QF cannot do similar

It’s probably a lot more competitive (ie not profitable) v LAX/SFO to/from Europe/UK.

 

[Himeno]

They would probably only be allowed to fly passengers connecting to/from Australia if at all for LHR-JFK so wouldn’t have a commercial number of passengers. Not enough travellers book RTW tickets to make that work.

Operating transatlantic flights is something I was about to post
They would require 5th freedom rights to do so, which IASC is sitting on and Qantas has used in the past.

 

[dajop]

Not if it had approval at both ends as a 5th freedom flight (but I wouldn’t be holding my breath).

For it to work commercially they'd have to join the AA/BA/AY/EI/IB JV arrangement you'd think. Otherwise would be challenging to generate a decent profit from the sector.

 

[Quickstatus]

SYD-LHR-JFK-SYD

Now would that be piece allowance or weight allowance

 

[justinbrett]

NZ are looking at LAX-LHR resumption and have suggested JFK-LHR is doable, no reason why QF cannot do similar

I thought it was LAX-LGW

 

[NM]

SYD-LHR-JFK-SYD

Now would that be piece allowance or weight allowance

If touching the USA, then its piece.

 

[Lucass]

I don't really understand the economics of Qantas's project sunrise flights. I don't see how they can make profit on such a long flight which needs so much fuel, modified aircraft, catering etc. Does anyone know what the operating costs for one of these flights will be?

 

[RooFlyer]

I don't really understand the economics of Qantas's project sunrise flights. I don't see how they can make profit on such a long flight which needs so much fuel, modified aircraft, catering etc. Does anyone know what the operating costs for one of these flights will be?

They are going to charge a premium for the flights. Over their existing premium!! Plus not landing/taking off on the way saves on fuel and landing charges.

 

[Lucass]

They are going to charge a premium for the flights. Over their existing premium!!

If they could fill their first/business seats that would be good for them, but I can't imagin to many in premium econ/economy wanting to pay a premium just to sit in a metal tube for 20 hours lol

 

[elanshin]

I don't really understand the economics of Qantas's project sunrise flights. I don't see how they can make profit on such a long flight which needs so much fuel, modified aircraft, catering etc. Does anyone know what the operating costs for one of these flights will be?

You don't need to understand, just Qantas does. They're not going to publicly share any of that data because it's commercial secrets.

But they went through extensive bidding, testing, regulatory hurdles, business case building and thought it will work. Remember they had plenty of time during covid to cancel the project.

Whether it'll work out eventually or not is to be proven, but at this point you sort of have to trust that Qantas knows what they're doing with this project from a numbers perspective.

 

[Daver6]

If they could fill their first/business seats that would be good for them, but I can't imagin to many in premium econ/economy wanting to pay a premium just to sit in a metal tube for 20 hours lol

Weren't people saying just this about PER-LHR? J and Y+ are chockers on those flights. Earlier this year, booking a month out, I couldn't get a Y+ seat on the day I wanted. The next 4 days were also booked out in Y+. Make of that what you will.

 

[elanshin]

If they could fill their first/business seats that would be good for them, but I can't imagin to many in premium econ/economy wanting to pay a premium just to sit in a metal tube for 20 hours lol

Have you ever looked into the load factors on QF9/10 (which is basically the test bed case for sunrise)? That might give you some insight.

 

[RooFlyer]

Weren't people saying just this about PER-LHR?

Nah, we knew Perth people have more money than sense.

 

[Lucass]

Weren't people saying just this about PER-LHR? J and Y+ are chockers on those flights. Earlier this year, booking a month out, I couldn't get a Y+ seat on the day I wanted. The next 4 days were also booked out in Y+. Make of that what you will.

Yes good point, however that route isn't going to be as long the project sunrise flights, but I suppose PER-LHR is a good indicator of potential success

 

[elanshin]

Yes good point, however that route isn't going to be as long the project sunrise flights, but I suppose PER-LHR is a good indicator of potential success

Also its about choice. It's one (eventual) daily flight a day. ~240 seats.

QF isn't about to stop flying xx_ - SIN - LHR or their PER- LHR. You can find someone that looks at 21hr in a metal tube and say "No way" but there are others that just as likely might say "yeh I'll take direct over having to hop off and back on".

The overwhelming number are going to do one stops (and not necessarily just with QF either) but there is likely to be a group that will want to fly direct for whatever reason as well.