Qantas reciprocal relationship with KLM/Air France (2020 onwards)

[pks]

Hi all,

We've booked DUB-BLQ via AMS with KLM in Y. I'm QF Gold and was wondering if I c an seat select via QF rather than pay e10 per seat booking on the KLM site? I was able to add our QF numbers and I’m LTG so was hoping to select seats - should I be able to do this?

thanks for your help

 

[Sof]

I have tried to use the klm-air france qantas partnership twice with no success. I have messaged both KLM, air france and qantas about this yet no one on the ground is applying it and klm/air frances systems reject the partnership (despite it seeming to accept other one world agreements like JAL).



I flew with klm from amsterdam the 10th feb

I flew with air france from cdg the 17th feb



Both times I had to message them to get them to add my qff number to my booking as I could not on their website (which I have complained to them about but have received a ‘non-answer’ from them). No priority lane, no priority bording, no extra baggage and no seat selection. I even showed the staff the qantas website but they did not believe me at all.



(I did think though when I booked the air france flight I managed to book my seat and add my qff when I booked it, but the seat selection and qff since dissapeared from the booking so I dont know what went on there!)

 

[SeatBackForward]

I was under the impression the partnership is only for certain routes, not a blanket application for all routes.

 

[Sof]

I was under the impression the partnership is only for certain routes, not a blanket application for all routes.

That was not qantas’s reply to me:

“our partnership has already taken effect since December 2019. You can check this link:https://www.qantas.com/au/en/frequent-flyer/partners/klm.html?tabId=tier-recognition, for information regarding the conditions and partnership. As a gold member you're entitled to get the following: extra checked baggage allowance,
priority airport check-in, priority boarding. preferred seating and priority baggage handling. However, lounge access is not part of the agreement with them.”

I also gained points for both the flights

 

[Sof]

This is the partnership from 2019 - the one for 2018 is just on codeshares that you can book with a qff number - the 2019 one is for all (hence why we can now book air france or klm flights as reward bookings - although not sure they are worth it)

 

[Tad]

I flew recently from KRK via AMS and CGT (Jakarta) to Sydney on KLM ticket. All flights on KL code and only CGT-SYD on Garuda. Others on KLM flights. I am lifetime QF Silver.

My experience with the new QF-KLM arrangements:

- No linkage between KLM and QF systems where I could change FF number or select seats. I was able to add QF FF only by phoning KLM o/s office. AU KLM office does not have a phone number to call; only social media access, which I have no access to. I was able to buy preferred seats on KLM site. I could see my booking on QF site, but no changes were possible.
- None of the flights offered any extras (baggage, boarding) for QF status members; probably because "noone knows" as was stated many times earlier.
- QF FF points did not appear automatically. I had to claim missing points. Points for KL flight on Garuda were rejected by QF.
- KLM has pathetic computer linkage with other airlines too. I flew out of AU on Etihad. Checkin took almost an hour as "systems" allowed baggage check-in only to AUH (Abu Dhabi) not the final destination. Moreover this lack of interaction between the airlines does not allow seat purchase either on KLM or Etihad sites. You get what you get and no on-line check-in at all.

 

[Danger]

I've been trying to find out the 'additional baggage allowance' for QF FFers but KLM doesn't seem to know (Specifically I'd like to know if intra-europe fares, where you normally have to pay €25-30 per bag, come with a free bag).

Did you ever get an answer? I'm interested in the AF luggage allowance, especially considering AF sells Lite fares with no baggage.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Did you ever get an answer? I'm interested in the AF luggage allowance, especially considering AF sells Lite fares with no baggage.

Nope Same outcome via different answers: 'please refer to the Qantas website for Qantas benefits'. 'Qantas is not a partner of KLM, elite benefits apply to Flying Blue and Skyteam', 'contact Qantas for Qantas frequent flyer benefits', 'the new partnership allows Flying Blue members to earn points on Qantas'.

I have no idea even where to take this next!

 

[ja1]

I have no idea even where to take this next!

CEO of Qantas FF ?

Or for amusement value, twitter, tagging them to announce that this arrangement doesn't actually exist at all and QAN need to rescind it before an ACCC complaint for false advertising.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

CEO of Qantas FF ?

Or for amusement value, twitter, tagging them to announce that this arrangement doesn't actually exist at all and QAN need to rescind it before an ACCC complaint for false advertising.

The problem dun seem to be Qantas... it's KLM At least for front-line staff. I guess the issue is to try and get is escalated to someone more senior.

 

[ja1]

You have zero chance of working it from the KLM side as you've already pointed out, their care factor is zero. it's a Qantas agreement / benefit you want to access which you can only access as a result of Qantas signing an agreement.. and Qantas need to pursue it.. it's literally something they are paying for and not getting.. as you have no direct commercial relationship with KLM and QAN do!

So yeah.. despite the frustration it's still a QAN issue to sort out. If they are paying KLM/AF for something and then decide not to bother to actually get what they pay for.. that turns out to be a different issue :-(

And as a customer you can ask them to provide this or you can make a decision when booking to specifically avoid AF/KLM and to give Qantas feedback in this process which they can't ignore. e.g. "Yeah no, I know what your announcement says but it's not real. You have no agreement with KLM. KLM told me this so please stop providing fake information until KLM fix this for you.."

Just my $0.02. Amazingly frustrating..

Have had this at minor levels in various airports and it's never fun because after a while you know the default position is that no matter when you're right or wrong, today you are wrong while standing here and you aren't getting in the lounge and if it turns out you were right later.. that doesn't matter too much since you aren't getting in the lounge now when it matters..

 

[MEL_Traveller]

You have zero chance of working it from the KLM side as you've already pointed out, their care factor is zero. it's a Qantas agreement / benefit you want to access which you can only access as a result of Qantas signing an agreement..

i agree on that front. Yet KLM/AF also benefits through their members being able to get points and benefits when flying QF. You'd think there'd be some sort of 'how to guide' for reciprocal arrangements

 

[Danger]

Nope Same outcome via different answers: 'please refer to the Qantas website for Qantas benefits'. 'Qantas is not a partner of KLM, elite benefits apply to Flying Blue and Skyteam', 'contact Qantas for Qantas frequent flyer benefits', 'the new partnership allows Flying Blue members to earn points on Qantas'.

I have no idea even where to take this next!

Oh, jeez. How pathetic.

 

[ja1]

i agree on that front. Yet KLM/AF also benefits through their members being able to get points and benefits when flying QF. You'd think there'd be some sort of 'how to guide' for reciprocal arrangements

Yes but no.. one of these things is KLM getting what it wants from QAN. The other is KLM needing to give things to QAN. There is an advantage to KLM in getting and not giving. Your options are to educate QAN to get what it is paying KLM for.. or alternately to embarrass QAN into the same position. There is nothing you can to educate KLM or embarrass them in this situation.

Not a fan of putting QAN in the corner but sometimes there is no option if they aren't listening.

 

[Danger]

On my first look at redeeming points on AF, I'm definitely not seeing the value.

It seems for the privilege of bringing along a 23kg bag, I have to fork out CHF24 and 14K Qantas points.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Totally not good value in many cases. AMS-FRA 10K QFFF points and €102.80. Actual fare €98.98 (plus the bag, but that should in theory be free )

The only cool thing I learned about KLM flights - not sure if this also applies to AF - is that when online check-in opens, you can actually select any unsold inventory in any class and pay an on-the-spot upgrade. On the spot upgrades for short flights like LON/FRA/ZRH etc are around €59, and include bag, lounge access and all other benefits. So a fairly cheap way of upgrading to EuroBusiness. Doing some research show long hauls can be equally cost-effective, like AMS-JFK for €340 one way.

 

[AFF Editor]

Just as a follow-up, we contacted Qantas about a month ago to ask about the partnership with KLM/Air France. We were promised a response but obviously other things got in the way and they never did get back to us.

 

[Danger]

Last month, while trying to flee Europe as COVID-19 was escalating quicker than alcohol orders at an AFF lounge meet, I went about trying to get answers as to the reciprocal benefits. I made three separate calls to QFF on the same day, asking about benefits when travelling as a Platinum in revenue Y. All were answered by the Asian call centre.

Agent 1 told me I would have lounge access in Paris but only when travelling on QF flight number. Points and SCs are earned on an AF flight number.

Agent 2 told me I "definitely have lounge access". I would also have priority seating and baggage. I then asked specifically what the baggage allowance was for a non-Americas flight. The agent asked me the specific route. I said Geneva to Casablanca. He said I would have an additional 50kg on any Y ticket. I confirmed this, twice. 50kgs extra on any Y ticket – regardless of the fare bucket, which would make the baggage allowance more generous than what Qantas provides to its own elites on its own metal. I then asked if there is any lounge access? “Yes, definitely.” I confirmed: “So if Air France has a lounge at GVA, I would be able to access it travelling in Y, provided I present my QF card, is that correct?” It was a clear “Yes”.

Agent 3 began by listing the same five benefits that are outlined on the QF website for travel on AF. I specifically asked what the extra baggage allowance is. She looked and said 50kg total (not extra). I confirmed that this was in any class on any ticket, including deep discount Y. She said it was. I then asked if I had lounge access. She said it would depend where. I said Paris CDG and GVA. She said at CDG I could access the AA lounge and the CX lounge and in GVA the BA lounge. I confirmed with her that I would have access to those lounges even though I am flying with AF. She said yes.

With the possible exception of the 50kg total baggage allowance, I'm 100% confident that the information provided by the three agents is 100% wrong.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Thanks. The additional baggage allowance is of interest to me - especially buying a 'lite' euro fare - which traditionally come without baggage and will cost €25 a bag for an ultra short haul flight. With AA it's no issue. I wish KL would be the same.

 

[AFF Editor]

We now (finally) have some answers about the specifics of this partnership. I hope this clarifies things!

After we reached out to Qantas, Air France & KLM also sent a reminder to their staff about the QFF partnership.

Qantas Clarifies Air France, KLM Tier Benefits

Last year, Qantas introduced a new frequent flyer partnership with Air France & KLM.

www.australianfrequentflyer.com.au