Qantas rolls out Classic Plus Flight Rewards

[downloadingdata]

Some observations:

- Qantas has completed dozens of surveys and focus groups and has decades of customer feedback on the topic, spent god-knows how much on big4 consulting firm fees -- and Classic Plus is the best they could come up with. Let that sink in, on how disconnected management are.
- Nobody in QF management has experience working for any other airline in the past 2 decades (excluding Cam Wallace - who worked for a smaller version of Qantas).
- QF has more 'CEO's' than the worlds largest airlines, all whom are paid more than some of the worlds most high profile airline CEOs.
- QF Loyalty has 15M+ members, all competing for the same restricted inventory, whereas, other airlines, like SQ, have 7M+ members competing for more intl premium seats.
- Everyone wants more seats for premium cabin intl classic award redemptions, yet Qantas, isn't even in the top 5 intl airlines for capacity in/out of Australia. Take out New Zealand, and they're barely in the top 10.
- QF Loyalty is battling against QF Airline Co for profitability. Neither is willing to take a hit. Loyalty will inevitably lose out, and thus, points will never increase in value.

I suspect what will come out of this is:

- Pressure from financial institutions on QF to lower (again) the cost per points (This will transpire as increased cost for classic awards, or less inventory, or both).
- A short-term increase in redemptions, mostly people trying to 'cash out' their points. Not members embracing the new product, but members burning in protests to get out.
- In 18-24months from now, due to the pressures of the above, classic awards will either increase in price, taxes+fees will increase, or begin to be phased out entirely.
- QF/Banks etc will be hauled in by some Gov committee about their use of terminology around "Fly to X from Y points" being deceptive since the number of actual seats on those sectors being almost non-available at that points price.
- Bank loyalty programs become more attractive versus transferring those points into airlines. More power to banks...awesome, just what the average credit card holder wants in their life!

Sadly, QF has painted itself into this situation.

And what is probably the best way to help QF get out of this situation (and bring more value back to the program), is to stop flying qantas, stop transferring credit card points into qf loyalty, and to stop feeding a broken system.

Virgin isn't any better.

All this raises a very valid point - are frequent flyer programs for Australians who don't travel internationally at least 3-4 times a year worth the investment?

Qantas is trying to make the most of the position they're in, using the same thinking that got them into this mess.
Over-hyping the classic plus launch is proof of this -- just read the comments from normal people on afr/news/reddit/flyertalk/aff etc... overwhelmingly negative.

Now might be a good time to take stock of what points you collect, and why.

I dont know how and why people are only just coming to the realisation that every change they make is going to be nothing but another devaluation in disguise. What's good for the frequent flyers are bad for Qantas and their shareholders and vice versa. We are playing a zero sum game here and QF holds all of the cards. You are correct this is the best they can come up with, and it's a great change for Qantas, just not the people flying with them. I warned here long ago that this is just a move towards dynamic award pricing and CR+ is just a more expensive CR without additional SCs, but people were blindly optimistic.

 

[encryptededdy]

Functionally with such a large proportion of the Australian population as QFF members, Qantas (the airline part) can never offer enough premium class reward seats to fulfil everyone's aspirational travel demands at Classic Reward (non-plus) rates. Their partners offer some inventory, however since COVID many airlines (not just Qantas partners, but Qantas partners included) have started restricting many seats to their own FFPs.

Virgin is doing better (especially to Europe), and I certainly hope it stays that way, however I'm not optimistic for the future given their total reliance on partners for this.

Anyway, for now I will continue collecting QFF points, keeping enough in my account (~300k) for 2 upcoming trips at a time. So far I've been able to redeem multiple J trips to my usual destinations of Japan/HK/Taiwan/Singapore per year with no problem, but if that dries up and my balance grows higher, then I will start moving on.

Unfortunately other than ANA, Virgin's coverage of Asia isn't great. Maybe I need to get onto that HSBC/Aeroplan card.

 

[MooTime]

Unfortunately other than ANA, Virgin's coverage of Asia isn't great. Maybe I need to get onto that HSBC/Aeroplan card.

What about that other VA partner SQ?
They do ok in the Asian region, no?

 

[RichardMEL]

Unfortunately other than ANA, Virgin's coverage of Asia isn't great. Maybe I need to get onto that HSBC/Aeroplan card.

SQ?

 

[exceladdict]

Functionally with such a large proportion of the Australian population as QFF members, Qantas (the airline part) can never offer enough premium class reward seats to fulfil everyone's aspirational travel demands at Classic Reward (non-plus) rates. Their partners offer some inventory, however since COVID many airlines (not just Qantas partners, but Qantas partners included) have started restricting many seats to their own FFPs.

I mean, there are other options including growing as an airline (thus having more seats available) or working with partners to include reward seats as a part of their JVs/codeshare arrangements.

 

[encryptededdy]

What about that other VA partner SQ?
They do ok in the Asian region, no?

SQ?

Yeah, you're right, I totally forgot about that. I guess I always just used KrisFlyer miles for SQ redemptions, so using Velocity for that was never on my mind.

 

[RooFlyer]

This might be a very good chance to try another airline/alliance. Although I will miss F Lounge in SYD, I think it's not worth the cost in either points or $ to fly QF.

Yes, an ideal time to try it. I assure you, once you settle into the lounge of your chosen airline (or a quiet corner in a concourse cafe) and contemplate the nice flight ahead, all thoughts of missing the QF Flounge with the hackneyed S&P squid and cheap 'decanted' booze will disappear. Been there, done that.

Once I switched to VA for my domestic travel after a status match, I retained it after about 8 months and it served me well internationally.

(I do confess however, in having lunch in the Flounge in between ADL-MEL-DOH flights on QR. )

And while we are all chattering about this, along comes the following for Qantas to sneak in:

Qantas Raising Seat, Baggage & Lounge Fees​

Qantas will raise many of its service fees next week, with prices for seat selection, excess baggage and Qantas Club membership all going up.​

You shock me! Amazed!

 

[stm1sydney]

Unfortunately other than ANA, Virgin's coverage of Asia isn't great.

In my experience, VA's partner SQ has excellent coverage of Asia and usually has reward flight availability. VA SG/WPs also get very good lounge access in Australia and Asia even if flying SQ Y.

 

[Doctore1003]

A solid explainer for the masses about the latest changes.

But I found the last three paras most interesting:

“In all this, there is the question I raised last week about what will pay for all this extra availability. The answer, as I explained, is probably that the points earn rate from companies and on cards, and especially bonus points, will be slashed as Qantas progressively puts a higher price on higher-engagement points.

But another query leaps out at me, having typed all these technicalities today: do we need three Qantas frequent flyer schemes?

The original two, at the cheapest and most expensive ends of the spectrum, for now, remain unchanged. But they could well be next for design changes. Or even ditching.“

How to game Qantas’ new frequent flyer program

The airline’s new frequent flyer scheme is now open for business, so here’s how to make the most of the system.

www.theage.com.au

 

[elanshin]

A solid explainer for the masses about the latest changes.

But I found the last three paras most interesting:

“But another query leaps out at me, having typed all these technicalities today: do we need three Qantas frequent flyer schemes?

The original two, at the cheapest and most expensive ends of the spectrum, for now, remain unchanged. But they could well be next for design changes. Or even ditching.“

How to game Qantas’ new frequent flyer program

The airline’s new frequent flyer scheme is now open for business, so here’s how to make the most of the system.

www.theage.com.au

p+p is adopted not just for flights and us now correctly placed and inline with other qff ways to spend qff points (like in marketplace). You use the function at the checkout phase rather than the purchase (calculator is there if you want to see).

CR changing is ultimately the main fear of this thread and a future "enhancement" with the start of C+.

Again in all honesty, if you didn't expect CR to change at all in the future, you're probably deluding yourself. Most programs have been devaluing or changing and US leads the way in this.

It ultimately is and always will be use what you can, abuse what you can and find something else when the status quo changes.

Maybe it'll all be luxury hotel points in 5 year time instead.

 

[PineappleSkip]

We are bitterly disappointed too. We need a new toaster, and there is nothing in the announcement about additional toaster options .

cheers skip

 

[KSC]

We are bitterly disappointed too. We need a new toaster, and there is nothing in the announcement about additional toaster options .

cheers skip

P1s & CLs will first be allocated additional toasters, followed by a sporadic random release for the rest, when Qantas needs a PR boost.

 

[RichardMEL]

P1/CL's also grt those fancy extra width toasters on request - for those extra thick crumpets (and egos)

 

[Clayton]

I deal with Qantas points by using them where they are good value, such as domestic and Oceania travel, and potentially intra-Europe flights. Occasionally they are useful for JAL and CI bookings, but I've had zero success travelling QF internationally, and no longer even both to look. Instead I use Avios for QR and Air Canada for SQ, or transfer bank points to KrisFlyer when Australia/Singapore travel awards are tight.

 

[clifford]

but people were blindly optimistic.

Not me, as most people would know.

And I'm still not (and not remotely "blind").

Thank you.

 

[kamchatsky]

We are bitterly disappointed too. We need a new toaster, and there is nothing in the announcement about additional toaster options .

cheers skip

Isn't what redeeming gift cards are for? Then you can buy any kind of toaster you wanted?

 

[Danger]

I don't understand this.

In the first attachment (a PDF, because I couldn't get what I wanted to show in an image that also showed the date), the Jetstar PER-SIN flight (bottom of page two) is available for 18K. This in the "Cash" view. When you switch to "Rewards" view, however, that exact same flight is now 20.3K.

What have I missed?

 

[CaptJCool]

I don't understand this.

In the first attachment (a PDF, because I couldn't get what I wanted to show in an image that also showed the date), the Jetstar PER-SIN flight (bottom of page two) is available for 18K. This in the "Cash" view. When you switch to "Rewards" view, however, that exact same flight is now 20.3K.

What have I missed?

nothing

I saw one of these the other day too.
seems there's different prices in cash/reward viewes

 

[encryptededdy]

I don't understand this.

In the first attachment (a PDF, because I couldn't get what I wanted to show in an image that also showed the date), the Jetstar PER-SIN flight (bottom of page two) is available for 18K. This in the "Cash" view. When you switch to "Rewards" view, however, that exact same flight is now 20.3K.

What have I missed?

20,300 is the Qantas price, whereas 18,000 is the Jetstar price. Seems like a bug.

If you continue through the booking process, hopefully it realises and displays the 18,000 price.

 

[Gold Member]

Theage.com.au has an article discussing CR+ and how to ”game it” - How to game Qantas’ new frequent flyer program

The Author writes:

“Last week, the cheap-flight chat rooms were abuzz with talk of a bulk seat-release – timed for the launch of Classic Plus – of Classic Rewards. They were unexpectedly replenished and if you’re quick, you may still get a nearer-term fabulous deal.”

Since when were we a cheap-flight chat room? We’re not all sniffin AvGas while swiping right on Tindr!

And then we’re lumped with others as an award seat checking tool website:

“It will be important to keep watch. (Note there are myriad sites and services that will do this for you, and on airlines all over the world, usually for a fee or subscription. These include australianfrequentflyer.com.au, seats.aero, ExpertFlyer and iflyflat.com.)”

Ultimately, the article otherwise does a good job at highlighting the obvious Classic reward as best value, but more importantly questions the longer term intention of Qantas with three Levels of rewards.