Qantas surveying members about spend-based status attainment

[Himeno]

They should just give status based on profitability haha

That would mean that people who self fund travel will never get to gold.

 

[Catweazle]

At this rate, we might do more roadtrips and spend points on hotels...

 

[MEL_Traveller]

That would mean that people who self fund travel will never get to gold.

Or the reverse! Someone who self funds a trip to the USA in business class - who doesn’t currently get status - would do so under a spend-based program.

 

[Lynda2475]

If someone only does 1 J trip to SYD/MEL to LAX return a year I'd argue they are not a frequent flyer and given J fares come with lounge access and extra luggage they don't really have a need for higher status.

Whereas to get to Gold flying SYD-MEL in Y requires 30 return trips a year, at which point lounge access makes a real difference to ones travelling comfort if for no other reason for access to barista coffee before that 6am flight and access to a clean toilet pre-flight.

 

[kangarooflyer88]

Having been a United Premier Gold refugee from them moving from an entirely BIS (butt in seat) elite program to now a mostly $$$ based program, I think moving the program over to entirely $$$ spend will turn a lot of people off. It's one thing if they offer an option to members to attain status based on spend whilst retaining the existing quasi-distance based status credit system. After all, there probably are a certain portion of members who spend thousands or even tens of thousands on short haul flights on Qantas but have little to show for it given the lack of recognition for spend.

However, moving to a loyalty system based strictly on spend will cause travel behaviour Qantas probably isn't expecting. After all, if you have to spend tens of thousands to get any meaningful recognition on Qantas, then why bother remaining loyal to them? Why not get all the benefits (and then some) of elite status by flying business class on whichever carrier has the best price, schedule and service (here's a hint: Qantas rarely wins on those categories)? The other concern I have is it would send a strong signal to Qantas elites not to fly Qantas on international trips. After all, why fly Qantas whose elite status accrual is based on spend whereas flying AA or British Airways it'll be based on distance again. Remember every carrier that has moved to a $$$ based system for elite status be it United, Delta or AC have carve outs for their partners because they cannot know how much you spend with their partners. For instance, it is well known for United's elite status that discount business (P) fares on a partner like Air Canada can be a very lucrative way of earning status with United.

-RooFlyer88

 

[MEL_Traveller]

If some one only does 1 J trip to SYD/MEL to LAX return a year I'd argue they are not a frequent flyer and given J fares come with lounge access and extra luggage they don't really have a need for higher status.

Whereas some to get to Gold flying SYD-MEL in Y requires 30 return trips a year, at which point lounge access makes a real difference to ones travelling comfort if for no other reason for access to barista coffee before that 6am flight and access to a clean toilet pre-flight.

Sure, but is that person flying weekly contributing the same or greater profit than the one off flyer?

As I said, it would be great if there was some sort of balance recognising the two. And of course the person flying once in business to LAX might also have a couple of domestic flights a year in the main cabin… why not extend lounge access?

 

[MEL_Traveller]

…

However, moving to a loyalty system based strictly on spend will cause travel behaviour Qantas probably isn't expecting. After all, if you have to spend tens of thousands to get any meaningful recognition on Qantas, then why bother remaining loyal to them? Why not get all the benefits (and then some) of elite status by flying business class on whichever carrier has the best price, schedule and service (here's a hint: Qantas rarely wins on those categories)? The other concern I have is it would send a strong signal to Qantas elites not to fly Qantas on international trips. After all, why fly Qantas whose elite status accrual is based on spend whereas flying AA or British Airways it'll be based on distance again. Remember every carrier that has moved to a $$$ based system for elite status be it United, Delta or AC have carve outs for their partners because they cannot know how much you spend with their partners. For instance, it is well known for United's elite status that discount business (P) fares on a partner like Air Canada can be a very lucrative way of earning status with United.

-RooFlyer88

I think the opposite… you remain loyal to QF because there is no real competition domestically. VA’s economy is LCC model. You even have to pay for bags given the ‘lite’ fare design include them. Their business is a premium economy at best. Their IFE and wifi is unreliable.

Qantas is streets ahead… free bags, wifi, IFE, snacks, beer and wine…

 

[jase05]

I think moving the program over to entirely $$$ spend will turn a lot of people off.

Doubtful.
Many would be QF loyalists and besides when their main competitor in Australia is doing the same it doesn’t give you a lot of options.
Seems to be the way they are all going

 

[MooTime]

I think the opposite… you remain loyal to QF because there is no real competition domestically. VA’s economy is LCC model. You even have to pay for bags given the ‘lite’ fare design include them. Their business is a premium economy at best. Their IFE and wifi is unreliable.

Qantas is streets ahead… free bags, wifi, IFE, snacks, beer and wine…

Everytime I fly VA I receive free bags, wifi very rarely an issue. I'd imagine it may be occasionally not reliable on QF, could be wrong, maybe it's perfect on QF.

Do QF provide beer & wine for all ?

 

[Lynda2475]

Sure, but is that person flying weekly contributing the same or greater profit than the one off flyer?

Well they depends whether the buy sale fares or last minute or flex fares.

The Golden triangle is very profitable because each plane flies the route multiple times a day, catering is minimal with most offering only a snack, and plenty travelling HLO. Similarly domestic J fares can be more expensive thant international J on a distance basis due to demand.

As I said, it would be great if there was some sort of balance recognising the two.

I'd argue this balance already exists in the current system, with SCs awarded based on a combination of distance, fare type (discount, flexible) and class of travel.

Someone travelling domestic whY on a sale fare is going to have to do significantly more flights to get the same status as someone flying international full fare J.

This system allows one to plan travel knowing the minimum earn on any route, and leverage DSCs if they want to fast track.

Moving to pure spend base will very much disadvantage the frequent domestic flyers who do an awful lot of BIS flying; and if they lose their SG lounge access might just go to VA where they will also have no lounge access but cheaper fares.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Everytime I fly VA I receive free bags, wifi very rarely an issue. I'd imagine it may be occasionally not reliable on QF, could be wrong, maybe it's perfect on QF.

Do QF provide beer & wine for all ?

Not if booking a ‘lite’ fare. Out of my close to 100 VA flights in a single year, wifi rarely worked and IFE was 50/50. I had a run if 6 out of 8 flights IIRC where one or both weren’t working. My feedback resulted in a ‘IFE is only on select routes and select planes’. On QF I’ve had a single flight where wifi wasn’t working, and that was on the 717 to LST.

Yes, beer and wine to all pax after midday, and after 9am for flights longer than 2 hours.

…


I'd argue this balance already exists in the current system, with SCs awarded based on a combination of distance, fare type (discount, flexible) and class of travel.

Someone travelling domestic whY on a sale fare is going to have to do significantly more flights to get the same status as someone flying international full fare J.

This system allows one to plan travel knowing the minimum earn on any route, and leverage DSCs if they want to fast track.

Moving to pure spend base will very much disadvantage the frequent domestic flyers who do an awful lot of BIS flying; and if they lose their SG lounge access might just go to VA where they will also have no lounge access but cheaper fares.

A dual threshold could work… either 700 SCs to get gold, or spend $10k. That way both the frequent flyer and the one-off business class flyer to LA get rewarded. Same for platinum… 1200SCs or spend $20k.

There is room for both!

 

[MooTime]

Not if booking a ‘lite’ fare. Out of my close to 100 VA flights in a single year, wifi rarely worked and IFE was 50/50. I had a run if 6 out of 8 flights IIRC where one or both weren’t working. My feedback resulted in a ‘IFE is only on select routes and select planes’. On QF I’ve had a single flight where wifi wasn’t working, and that was on the 717 to LST.

Yes, beer and wine to all pax after midday, and after 9am for flights longer than 2 hours.



A dual threshold could work… either 700 SCs to get gold, or spend $10k. That way both the frequent flyer and the one-off business class flyer to LA get rewarded. Same for platinum… 1200SCs or spend $20k.

There is room for both!

you had extroadinary badluck for your wifi to "rarely" work. Or did it just not work compared to your home NBN speed?
It's been noted that VA is upgrading all their planes with wifi, it doesn't happen overnight.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

you had extroadinary badluck for your wifi to "rarely" work. Or did it just not work compared to your home NBN speed?
It's been noted that VA is upgrading all their planes with wifi, it doesn't happen overnight.

Not installed, or installed but not working. IFE was more consistent, but plenty times it wasn’t working either.

 

[bmcc]

How is Oneworld partner spend going to factor into a spend-based model for QF?

I probably spend AU$40k or more on Oneworld travel, but less than AU$1k on QF, just enough to get my 4 squiggles.

 

[33kft]

They could probably just increase SC earn in premium cabins for non-sale fares and get the same outcome

Why make it purely revenue based when you have a proxy for revenue in booking class already

 

[tdimdad]

And that proxy for revenue works quite ok. It's predictable and takes into account fare types and distance (in a categorical way).

 

[clifford]

I imagine that the bean counters at Qantas have looked at what VA is doing and have liked it.

I fully expect Qantas to announce a pure revenue based model within the next 12 months.

Anyone prepared to bet against it?

 

[33kft]

Anyone prepared to bet against it?

What's the wager, first