Qantas surveying members about spend-based status attainment

[mviy]

So should we just give up with the status and points game then

Well if you get LTG and no longer intend to go for WP or above it would actually be in your interest for it to be harder for people to achieve SG. There would be less incentive to devalue status benefits if fewer benefit from them.

All QF needs to do is make sure that QFF remains relatively the most attractive program for most Australians. Even just a little bit more attractive than other programs would be enough for them.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

So should we just give up with the status and points game then

Well no… because you still want your flight rewards? Or your toasters, or whatever else people aspire to.

Even if you don’t have status, you’ll still do grocery shopping, and spend on credit cards, phone plans, insurance, pet care, utilities… you name it. And even if you want to go all out switching from QFFF to VAFF, you’ll still likely be ‘in the game’ with one of the two.

And if you have picked one of them, your flights are likely to be with the associated airline. I’d guess it’s unlikely that if you lose your qantas status, you’ll continue to earn points at woollies, and put all your other points on QFFF, but fly VA.

 

[Gremlin]

So should we just give up with the status and points game then

Entirely up to you. No one’s forcing loyalty upon you. And if it doesn’t meet your needs, then the rational decision is to give up on it. But a disproportionate number of customers act irrationally enough that loyalty programs are wildly profitable.

With a duopoly domestically, you have the illusion of choice.

 

[levelnine]

There's a misconception in this thread that a move to revenue-based earning will empty out the lounges, decimate the elite ranks & end gaming behaviour.

It doesn't do any of that. Instead, it switches the cohort that attains elite status, fills the lounges & games the program. The program switches from rewarding the person able to game status runs to rewarding the person able to game the airline's on-the-ground partners.

To take a simple example, if you want to earn elite status cheaply and easily on Qantas, your best bet is to status run on Qantas and partner airlines.

If you want to earn elite status cheaply and easily on a US airline, your best bet is to game its credit card and shopping portal partners.

To give just one example, in 2024 my partner and I earned over 500,000 Loyalty Points (well in excess of what's required for both of us to acquire the AA equivalent of Platinum One) at $0 cost and without crediting a single flight to American. All through gaming. This happens all the time in the US.

It'll also happen with BA. There is going to be even more gaming of the holiday package program than currently occurs. Not to mention the gaming of the TPs you'll earn from credit card spend.

It'll happen with Qantas once it switches as well. We saw a sneak preview of it last year with the Qantas holiday promotion where you could earn 5K points with any stay. People exploited it by booking $2 Bali stays. But instead of just earning points, under the new scheme you'll also earn status by taking advantage of these loopholes.

Importantly, the very best loopholes are not shared in public because they get shut down if they hit critical mass. So what I'm mentioning is really just the tip of the iceberg.

Airlines need these on-the-ground partners because they are the main way for their loyalty businesses to grow.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Agree, the ‘gamification’ is still there… you can still churn and earn your business class award ticket to Europe. You just might not have the status to use the F class lounge on a $79 jetstar ticket.

I thought the BA proposal had limits on the spend related to credit cards that go towards status?

 

[levelnine]

I thought the BA proposal had limits on the spend related to credit cards that go towards status?

2.5K TPs.

 

[qreality]

Domestically that may be true, but internationally? Good luck.

Very true indeed. And this may be why QF will make the switch because QF has strong domestic market share.

However, if Qantas changes to spend-based status, Qantas will have to up their game with their product offerings; if they are just marginally better than LCC (which is the situation currently), and with higher prices, those who gain status through domestic flights (which I suppose many QFF are) will indeed switch to LCC carriers as status is no longer attainable.

 

[qreality]

There's a misconception in this thread that a move to revenue-based earning will empty out the lounges, decimate the elite ranks & end gaming behaviour.

It doesn't do any of that. Instead, it switches the cohort that attains elite status, fills the lounges & games the program. The program switches from rewarding the person able to game status runs to rewarding the person able to game the airline's on-the-ground partners.

To take a simple example, if you want to earn elite status cheaply and easily on Qantas, your best bet is to status run on Qantas and partner airlines.

If you want to earn elite status cheaply and easily on a US airline, your best bet is to game its credit card and shopping portal partners.

To give just one example, in 2024 my partner and I earned over 500,000 Loyalty Points (well in excess of what's required for both of us to acquire the AA equivalent of Platinum One) at $0 cost and without crediting a single flight to American. All through gaming. This happens all the time in the US.

It'll also happen with BA. There is going to be even more gaming of the holiday package program than currently occurs. Not to mention the gaming of the TPs you'll earn from credit card spend.

It'll happen with Qantas once it switches as well. We saw a sneak preview of it last year with the Qantas holiday promotion where you could earn 5K points with any stay. People exploited it by booking $2 Bali stays. But instead of just earning points, under the new scheme you'll also earn status by taking advantage of these loopholes.

Importantly, the very best loopholes are not shared in public because they get shut down if they hit critical mass. So what I'm mentioning is really just the tip of the iceberg.

Airlines need these on-the-ground partners because they are the main way for their loyalty businesses to grow.

Very interesting observation indeed.

And quite clever, unfortunately.

Using US-based scenario as an example, it seems that those who will gain status will be most likely NOT frequent flyers, but instead, either
(1) those who fly not that often but managed to gain status credits or tier points through ground-based spending, or
(2) those who fly marginally frequent enough but in premium cabins.
Of course, there may be those really really really frequent flyers in economy class that can still attain status, but will be a extremely small minority I suppose.

While this may not mean a significant reduction in lounge access (depending how serious the gamification may take shape), I bet this now cohort of customers who managed to gain status would be fewer and may hit the sweet spot for airlines to maximise their lounge profit.

Lounge cost per customer will be lower overall: while these customers can access the lounge as often as they want, their behaviours mean that they don't travel that much anyway. I suppose this is what airlines prefer: make lounge access so restrictive, stroke the egos for those who still qualify, but they jsut don't use the facility that often. Elitist - but may work!

Another stinger - I bet some PR rep will try to package this into some sort of 'fly less - be more green' kind of publicity. Less carbon emission as a company - even better PR publicity.

Just one issue (all very hypothetical of course): sounds like this will reduce overall revenue, especially if those economy flyers jsut move on to other airlines. Though margin per ticket will be quiet healthy overall. Still a gamble move after all?

 

[Kiwi_Flyer]

Interesting thread. I haven't seen any mention of the NZ program, for which status is heavily revenue based (and also has the problem for us of a captive market/limited real competition especially domestic).

NZ isn't a pure revenue status model but a lot closer than QF is currently.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I don’t think this segment of economy flyers will move to another airline.

FF programs are an intricate web of cross-earning.

If I swap from qantas to virgin I have to change my supermarket, my insurances, my credit cards, my petrol station, my utility providers.

People who weren’t doing some or all of the above probably took the cheapest fares anyway and weren’t tied to an airline to start with (so not much change there).

Even if I’m working for government where I don’t get the points… I’m still going to want to fly qantas. I get free beer and wine, a hot meal or cold snack, and have working IFE and wifi. VA doesn’t offer the former two, and doesn’t have a great track record in providing the latter.

If you are a genuine flyer and only fly economy, it might be time to invest in Qantas club membership. If you are gaming the system, you’ll still earn heaps of points, just won’t get status.

 

[mviy]

If you are a genuine flyer and only fly economy, it might be time to invest in Qantas club membership. If you are gaming the system, you’ll still earn heaps of points, just won’t get status.

QANTAS Club is not as good as having status, especially if flying internationally or overseas on partner airlines.

 

[Lynda2475]

The USA programs where status is tied heavily to ground spend don't get you domestic lounge access.

If Qantas already manage lounge access quite well by put black out periods on CC passes during peak periods, and in dom lounges stocking cheap coffee (Vittoria), mostly low end wines, non premium beers and not offering coughtails.

Switching to ground based spend for status in Australia likely to make lounge over crowding much much worse given the crazy number of points partners QF has.

If the goal is to reduce elites (and id say their goal is not this but rather to increase program participation so they can make more selling more points to ground partners), then there are easier levers to pull such as not running DSC and increasing the Qantas segments one needs to fly.

Keeping status tied to bum in seat flying (class and ticket type), but boosting points earn with ground partners will make one sticker than ignoring the flying bit altogether.

Also Qantas holiday packages tend to appeal more to non frequent flyers, price sensitive customers as you generally can't choose your airline (sometimes you can pay ahefty surcharge to do so), with IME most of the deals being on non OW airlines.

Short 1 week all inclusive package details are vastly more popular in UK where the destinations in Spain or canary Islands etc are short flight away. And in US where they get much less annual leave. Whereas most Aussies tend to try and cram more into their international holidays due to the distances we need to fly.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

QANTAS Club is not as good as having status, especially if flying internationally or overseas on partner airlines.

Agree. But there was some comment earlier in this thread that some very frequent economy flyers - for work domestically - may find they lose status. A potential solution to that would be QC membership.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

The USA programs where status is tied heavily to ground spend don't get you domestic lounge access.

If Qantas already manage lounge access quite well by put black out periods on CC passes during peak periods, and in dom lounges stocking cheap coffee (Vittoria), mostly low end wines, non premium beers and not offering coughtails.

Switching to ground based spend for status in Australia likely to make lounge over crowding much much worse given the crazy number of points partners QF has.

If the goal is to reduce elites (and id say their goal is not this but rather to increase program participation so they can make more selling more points to ground partners), then there are easier levers to pull such as not running DSC and increasing the Qantas segments one needs to fly.

Keeping status tied to bum in seat flying (class and ticket type), but boosting points earn with ground partners will make one sticker than ignoring the flying bit altogether.

Also Qantas holiday packages tend to appeal more to non frequent flyers, price sensitive customers as you generally can't choose your airline (sometimes you can pay ahefty surcharge to do so), with IME most of the deals being on non OW airlines.

Short 1 week all inclusive package details are vastly more popular in UK where the destinations in Spain or canary Islands etc are short flight away. And in US where they get much less annual leave. Whereas most Aussies tend to try and cram more into their international holidays due to the distances we need to fly.

I don’t think the goal is to reduce the number of elites. It’s just to make sure that all elites are turning a healthy profit in the program.

And if all the elites are turning a healthy profit, maybe some of the lounge shortcomings you mention will improve?

 

[aus_flyer]

To give just one example, in 2024 my partner and I earned over 500,000 Loyalty Points (well in excess of what's required for both of us to acquire the AA equivalent of Platinum One) at $0 cost and without crediting a single flight to American. All through gaming. This happens all the time in the US.

Do you have a US credit card? If not, how on earth did you manage to do this? I am intrigued!