Qantas to charge passengers extra for exit row seats

[Dave Noble]

That would be quite fine by me - I don't do DONE4, I don't fly around the USA for the sake of status. I give Qantas at least 16 long haul sectors a year (some years more), with another 30-40 short haul QF sectors a year on average (plus around 60 'normal' oneworld sectors a year) already planned for the next 3-4 years. That's despite my not even living in Australia.

I think it would be a sensible way of measuring value too. Measure value of customer specifically to spend on QF rather than in relation to flying bizarre routes on other carriers just for the sake of status

Dave

 

[AnonymousCoward]

Hi,

Just read the second linked article, and the sums mentioned seemed compelling - for 1 x daily A380 flight SYD-LHR, that's $3.8 million yearly if they can sell all the extra leg-room seats for $160.

I doubt there are many WPs that fly long-haul that are in economy that generate that much profit for QF.

Personally, even though it will probably disadvantage me, I agree that QF would be better off moving to a system that benefited those that deliver the most profit to QF (though the PPS scheme isn't quite that - it rewards more expensive cabins, and only on SQ, rather than profit per se).

That would probably not make those jetting around the US on KUPP/YUPP fares happy, but those simply don't generate the revenue for QF that someone flying in J/F SYD-LAX does.

That said, maybe I won't be too badly off - 8 long haul sectors in J that past 12 months, and 0 in Y (thank goodness). Though I suspect that the next 12 months will include more long haul Y (shudder)

 

[Dave Noble]

Personally, even though it will probably disadvantage me, I agree that QF would be better off moving to a system that benefited those that deliver the most profit to QF (though the PPS scheme isn't quite that - it rewards more expensive cabins, and only on SQ, rather than profit per se).

Even just measuring revenue to QF and , unlike SQ, including economy spend would show a spend level with QF and be a better measure of "value" than ability to find the cheapest high SC earning routes

a QF PPS scheme could work well to reward those that spend with QF

Dave

 

[AnonymousCoward]

Even just measuring revenue to QF and , unlike SQ, including economy spend would show a spend level with QF and be a better measure of "value" than ability to find the cheapest high SC earning routes

a QF PPS scheme could work well to reward those that spend with QF

Dave

I have no doubt that any scheme isn't going to be perfect, but I agree in principle that a revenue or profit based scheme is probably a better system for determining status.

However I imagine there will be significant challenges (e.g. apportioning revenue or profit) from holiday packages or OW fares etc.

A profit system would indicate your "worth" to QANTAS, but revealing how much profit you make QF might compromise their internal revenue management models.

And lastly does a revenue system reflect frequent flying? There's probably some correlation, but still not a perfect correlation. If you fly on a single $30k fare, are you as frequent a flier as someone who does 100 x $300 SYD-MEL (or vv) fares?

 

[notzac]

I have no doubt that any scheme isn't going to be perfect, but I agree in principle that a revenue or profit based scheme is probably a better system for determining status.

Self-interest tells me that would be an awful system (for me at least) - but then, I'm one of those filthy WPs that employs "cheAAts" to get status.

Leave things as they are please!

 

[Dave Noble]

And lastly does a revenue system reflect frequent flying? There's probably some correlation, but still not a perfect correlation. If you fly on a single $30k fare, are you as frequent a flier as someone who does 100 x $300 SYD-MEL (or vv) fares?

a single $30k fare would probably make you of more valuable a customer than the 100 * $300 passenger

May not be a frequent traveller , but a valuable one.

Dave

 

[oz_mark]

I was lead to believe that one of the things that they could do with Altea was to work out a (profit) value to Qantas of your overall relationship. I suspect (but can't prove) that it may feed into tie-break scenarios.

 

[medhead]

a single $30k fare would probably make you of more valuable a customer than the 100 * $300 passenger

May not be a frequent traveller , but a valuable one.

Dave

I'd say the $30k would be a more profitable pax rather than valuable. They are paying a big premuium for one or two flights on one or two days. Yep great profit. But QF have planes to fill every day of the year. Someone flyinh 100 times a years maybe isn't contributing very much to the profit, but they are making 100 flights get 1 seat closer to a profit.
Even if filling up the cheap seats they are pushing one more person into a more expensive seat.

IMO it is like the Australian TV industry. My parents had a Rank Arena for 20 years, perfect. But having them spend a lot of money on one TV hasn't stopped Rank Arena from disappearing. By comparison my Panasonic TV is half dead after 6 years.

 

[AnonymousCoward]

a single $30k fare would probably make you of more valuable a customer than the 100 * $300 passenger

May not be a frequent traveller , but a valuable one.

I agree.

But it's called the QANTAS Frequent Flyer scheme, not the QANTAS Most Valuable Passenger scheme (aka what AS calls their scheme).

In either case, those flying AA fares, or doing LHR-DXB-LHR in a day to maximise SCs on a DONEx are probably not flying QF

 

[Evan]

If i can't select my rows they i suddenly care less about what carrier i fly simply as that. Sure i may do an xONEx now and then but that is for my pleasure, and all the work travel in whY if not rewarded i may as well just fly who is more comfortable and that will not be QF if i cannot select my seat.

As it happens that is never exit rows, only bulkhead or like row 40 or 41 in the 744's

Not impressed ! but i realise where it comes from and if it happens will simply see loss of my regular and probably my high value business from them. I don't even live in Australia, i can fly *A RTW's instead in possibly better seats...

 

[AnonymousCoward]

If i can't select my rows they i suddenly care less about what carrier i fly simply as that. Sure i may do an xONEx now and then but that is for my pleasure, and all the work travel in whY if not rewarded i may as well just fly who is more comfortable

As a WP you have access to a range of published benefits (e.g. FC lounge access, additional baggage allowance, ability to checkin in any line, 100% bonus on miles flown, etc). I don't see how you are "not rewarded". That's plain hyperbole

and that will not be QF if i cannot select my seat.

Who says you can't select your seat? As a WP you can select your seat online when booking according to a new proposed system (maybe it won't apply to exit row seats). There is no suggestion that a WP can't ring up and request an exit row seat.

 

[dajop]

a QF PPS scheme could work well to reward those that spend with QF

Dave

Perhaps a more apt descrption would be a QF "velocity" scheme. That includes economy travel.

Oh now that my initial anger has subsided, one other thought. Wonder if they'll charge this for allocating a seat in row 16 on a 747???

 

[Flashback]

Initial reports seem to suggest whY only. I guess their thinking would be most people travelling J would already have the ability to get exit rows through WP...

 

[jaffa]

Sorry if i'm missing something here but,

Is not there some sort of saftey rules about who can sit in exit rows.
I always thought there was.

How is QF going to handle it if an obeese, disabled, non english speaking, sick or medicated person pay's for an exit row and dosen't meet the requirements when they check in.

Will QF refund on the spot. I bet you they won't.
How Will QF make sure they are ok for the seat when they can't even see the person before they turn up at the airport.
Will they refuse a person with a paid ticket.

Am l missing something here, or am l just behind the times.
I did not think they could blindly sell the exit rows.

 

[dajop]

As a WP you have access to a range of published benefits (e.g. FC lounge access, additional baggage allowance, ability to checkin in any line, 100% bonus on miles flown, etc). I don't see how you are "not rewarded". That's plain hyperbole

Looking at these benefits (and speaking only for my situation)

1) Ability to checkin in any line is worth it's wait in gold. I wonder if they've thought of charging regular punters $25 to use the premium lines.
2) FCL access nice, but QP is still OK, and I find travelling frequently my airport patterns usually see me arrive with minimal spare time anyway. Mainly good connecting in foreign ports (although I'm over the SIN FCL, which is not a foreign port for me now anyway)
3) 100% bonus is good, but then again for me it just keeps QF on par with the 25% status bonus I get in SQ's program - as the burn rates are often a lot higher with QF. For people doing mainly shorthaul domestic (eg MELSYD), it is of no value.
4) Baggage allowance - In 10 years, twice I've had 22kg and once I think I made it to about 33kg (when I relocated to SIN from MEL). Had much more benefit from exit row seat allocation

I'd put the unpublished exit row benefit between 1) and 2) in the above list.

 

[Commuter]

Is not there some sort of saftey rules about who can sit in exit rows.
I always thought there was.

Yes there are.

How is QF going to handle it if an obeese, disabled, non english speaking, sick or medicated person pay's for an exit row and dosen't meet the requirements when they check in.

It causes quite a lot of problems to carriers that are 'selling' exit row sears. I do know this for the fact. It becomes quite emotive.

Will QF refund on the spot. I bet you they won't.
How Will QF make sure they are ok for the seat when they can't even see the person before they turn up at the airport.
Will they refuse a person with a paid ticket.

They would also make the person tick the box that he is able bodied and can speak English and is prepared to help in the event of an emergency when booking an exit row seat.

I guess they'd have to change their seats and refund the money if the person subsequently develops a problem (e.g. breaks a leg after booking an exit row seat). Whether they would need to refund the money if the person made a false declaration is another matter though (it happens more often than you think).

 

[Commuter]

The $80 is pure profit. Are you saying you deliver $20,000-$32,000 in profit to QANTAS per year that you'd take somewhere else because of this? That's a lot flying, especially in economy...

No, just revenue, not profit (but not including tax, fees and charges).

However, given that an empty seat still has operating cost involved in it, they would be better off having revenue from me than not.

The simple solution to this, as far as I am concerned, as soneone suggested somewhere, would be to ensure that WPs have the priority over everyone else (except CLs) on exit row seat request. Exit row seat request can be handled in just the same way as points upgrade request, except that it can also be done on money.

That way, QF will make the extra profit as well as keeping my custom. I don't really care if I need to pay $80 or $160 per sector - I'd pay more than that if needed. I don't like my Platinum benefit reduced by needing to pay for exit row seats, but if that's how it has to be, I can live with it. I just do not want my level of access to exit row seats reduced.

 

[drron]

Whilst you have been arguing those wonderful journalists over at News have been able to turn this into a real QF bashing story-
Qantas to charge tall passengers extra fees | The Courier-Mail

 

[Groundfeeder]

Looks like there's going to be extra heavy demand for row 4 on 738's.:evil:

 

[Flashback]

Looks like there's going to be extra heavy demand for row 4 on 738's.:evil:

And there hasn't been already? Note it says trans-tasman isn't included in this new charge, so I can't see it being any different on those routes.