Qantas - what will Coronavirus mean in the medium term?

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Please remind us?
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And just when the low loads meant better upgrade chances!

In terms of aviation impacts - 9/11 - completely changed the industry, many airlines went bankrupt or forced mergers, some nationalised (eg Air New Zealand)
In terms of financial impacts - the 2007 Financial crisis, largest stock market crash since the great depression
In terms of pandemics, the 2009 swine flu, resulting in up to 500,000 deaths all around the world.

We need a less hysterical media.
 
In terms of aviation impacts - 9/11 - completely changed the industry, many airlines went bankrupt or forced mergers, some nationalised (eg Air New Zealand)
In terms of financial impacts - the 2007 Financial crisis, largest stock market crash since the great depression
In terms of pandemics, the 2009 swine flu, resulting in up to 500,000 deaths all around the world.

We need a less hysterical media.
You don't think you're calling this a bit early? I mean, it has really only been going on for a month or so...
But I hope you're right - I hope you can sit back in 6 months or so and laugh at everyone that totally overreacted. Oh no! Eggs on our faces and too much toilet paper in the garage.... I hope you're right
 
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In terms of aviation impacts - 9/11 - completely changed the industry, many airlines went bankrupt or forced mergers, some nationalised (eg Air New Zealand)
In terms of financial impacts - the 2007 Financial crisis, largest stock market crash since the great depression
In terms of pandemics, the 2009 swine flu, resulting in up to 500,000 deaths all around the world.

We need a less hysterical media.
You don't think you're calling this a bit early? I mean, it has really only been going on for a month or so...
But I hope you're right - I hope you can sit back in 6 months or so and laugh at everyone that totally overreacted. Oh no! Eggs on our faces and too much toilet paper in the garage.... I hope you're right
 
In terms of aviation impacts - 9/11 - completely changed the industry, many airlines went bankrupt or forced mergers, some nationalised (eg Air New Zealand)
In terms of financial impacts - the 2007 Financial crisis, largest stock market crash since the great depression
In terms of pandemics, the 2009 swine flu, resulting in up to 500,000 deaths all around the world.

We need a less hysterical media.
And goodbye Ansett!
 
Well, I was half joking with the cleaning comment above, but...
Qantas has been ordered to improve how it cleans its aircraft after a damning SafeWork NSW report said it may be putting passengers and staff at risk of infectious disease, such as coronavirus.

The workplace safety watchdog issued an improvement notice to Qantas last week, saying cleaners has been seen wiping tray tables and other surfaces with the same cloth and handling items such as used tissues without proper equipment.
 
Well, I was half joking with the cleaning comment above, but...
Qantas has been ordered to improve how it cleans its aircraft after a damning SafeWork NSW report said it may be putting passengers and staff at risk of infectious disease, such as coronavirus.

The workplace safety watchdog issued an improvement notice to Qantas last week, saying cleaners has been seen wiping tray tables and other surfaces with the same cloth and handling items such as used tissues without proper equipment.

Personal view, but I really don't think the cleaning of aircraft is an issue that has any importance whatsoever for planes and corona transmission - the threat is from pax on board who are busily expelling billions of virus spores during their trip. I suspect that you are far more likely to catch it from a pax on your own flight than someone who was on the previous one.

Having said that, hygiene in aircraft is almost an oxymoron - has anyone ever dropped something behind/into their flash lay-flat seat and had a good look in the crevices with a torch? You can find remnants of peanuts from the last century in most...
 
Personal view, but I really don't think the cleaning of aircraft is an issue that has any importance whatsoever for planes and corona transmission - the threat is from pax on board who are busily expelling billions of virus spores during their trip. I suspect that you are far more likely to catch it from a pax on your own flight than someone who was on the previous one.

Having said that, hygiene in aircraft is almost an oxymoron - has anyone ever dropped something behind/into their flash lay-flat seat and had a good look in the crevices with a torch? You can find remnants of peanuts from the last century in most...
Not too sure about your confidence @juddles.Evidence from other corona viruses suggest they remain infectious for up to 9 days on inaminate surfaces.
“Human coronaviruses can remain infectious on inanimate surfaces at room temperature for up to 9 days. At a temperature of 30°C [86°F] or more, the duration of persistence is shorter. Veterinary coronaviruses have been shown to persist even longer for 28 d[ays].”
 
Not too sure about your confidence @juddles.Evidence from other corona viruses suggest they remain infectious for up to 9 days on inaminate surfaces.
“Human coronaviruses can remain infectious on inanimate surfaces at room temperature for up to 9 days. At a temperature of 30°C [86°F] or more, the duration of persistence is shorter. Veterinary coronaviruses have been shown to persist even longer for 28 d[ays].”

Yeah, sure, they can remain and infect. But would you prefer to travel to travel on a "clean" plane but with a pax who is active coronoavirus, or on a plane that was not cleaned and who held no active corona pax?
 
Yeah, sure, they can remain and infect. But would you prefer to travel to travel on a "clean" plane but with a pax who is active coronoavirus, or on a plane that was not cleaned and who held no active corona pax?
First you wouldn't know there was a patient that had active corona virus anyway but if that pax was in the last 3 rows of Y and I was in F I would rather that plane than the one who had an active corona virus patient in F in the last 3 days but the plane hadn't been cleaned properly.
 
Would you prefer to be on a plane that had been cleaned, but now filled with pax from Iran and Italy, or a plane that was not "cleaned" and was full of pax from Rarotonga?
 
Hi all - does anyone have an actual list of cancelled flights/dates that Qantas announced yesterday? Cant find anything. Thanks!
 
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(5) Although I feel the era of travel restrictions will vanish within months once it is a global pandemic, perhaps the severe economic effects of the whole thing will cause a massive drop in general travel that lasts for many months to years?

People have short memories. These "flu-like" outbreaks are concerning of course, but not that uncommon.

In mid-2009, we had the H1N1 (swine flu) pandemic which lasted for around a year, until mid-2010. The number of confirmed deaths was 18,500, but some estimated the number to be as high as 575,400. Then we also have the H5N1 (bird flu) case.

For those of us who remember these times, the worldwide reaction was certainly much more subdued and people seemed much less concerned than with COVID-19. I think that this is one step on a worrying trend towards reactionary extremism that we see in today's society that's so clearly reflected in today's politics.

Much of it is because of the rise of 24/7 social media where we're just continually inundated with increasingly negative news stories, and of course, it's also due to the media's transition away from a subscription model to a "pay-per-click" model where they have to come up with increasingly controversial and sensationalist headlines to make people click on their articles and please their advertisers.

Anyway, I think that we're currently in a frenzy right now, which will shortly end when everyone's attention span wanes. Remember when we had the bushfires this summer and the entire news cycle was dominated by news of the fires? Those in fire affected regions (like myself) will know that the media stopped reporting on it long before the fires stopped burning - once people were bored of the stories, the reporting moved on.

My guess is that there will continue to be travel restrictions and bans to certain areas, but as the "novelty" of the entire situation wears off, people will just begin to go back to their normal lives. When people see that after a few months of sensationalist news, people are not just dropping dead around them, they'll see that a lot of the initial fears were not realised.

There's also a lot of hope that as most of the heavily infected areas in the northern hemisphere enter their hottest months, the number of cases will begin to fall, just like the flu. The bad news for us is that we're moving towards the colder months. I just hope that people will begin to calm down and assess the risks rationally. Most of the people who are worrying the most about dying from COVID-19 have no fears about dying in a traffic accident or an accidental fall (both of which are far more probable at the moment).
 
...My guess is that there will continue to be travel restrictions and bans to certain areas, but as the "novelty" of the entire situation wears off, people will just begin to go back to their normal lives. When people see that after a few months of sensationalist news, people are not just dropping dead around them, they'll see that a lot of the initial fears were not realised...

oirets, if this continues for 'a few months', it can affect many employees and business incomes negatively.

That said, given your predictions, would you advise it's rational to book trips to Europe, Asia or USA for say September onwards?
 
oirets, if this continues for 'a few months', it can affect many employees and business incomes negatively.

That said, given your predictions, would you advise it's rational to book trips to Europe, Asia or USA for say September onwards?

It already has begun affecting many employees and businesses. I'm an academic at a major university and we're already starting to feel the effects of not having the cash flow in from Chinese students who are currently stuck overseas. Classes have been cut, employees asked to take leave...etc.

I don't really know enough about what will happen, but it's probably best not to book anything too far in advance. Right now, I would say that the risks aren't really high enough to be altering travel plans unless they're to areas where there's been massive outbreaks.
 
oirets, if this continues for 'a few months', it can affect many employees and business incomes negatively.

That said, given your predictions, would you advise it's rational to book trips to Europe, Asia or USA for say September onwards?

Melbournian1, permit me to answer that question from my own point of view, which I think is well aligned with oirets in many regards..

I fear the non-medical effects of Corona far more than the actual COVID-19 - a stance that is definitely enabled by my personal situation (if I was over 70 and had other conditions and a weak respiratory system then I would be much more afraid of the actual bug)

My fear has been of the economic effects, the panic effects driven by media, and above all, in a travelling sense, the sudden and dramatic things that have been occurring in efforts to "contain" the virus. I would have no problem travelling to Wuhan or Italy or Iran tomorrow, if it was not for the likelihood of the associated repercussions that are not specifically about my well-being - ie the cancellation of flights, the possibility of being denied crossing a border, the perfectly acceptable requirement that I would have to isolate myself upon return.

Most of these travel risks are only existent in this period before the virus is recognized to be a pandemic - then these restrictions will vanish over the next few months...

Given that the virus has succesfully already reached every corner of the globe, and that localized spread only takes a few weeks to a few months, I would be very surprised if by "September" there is any reason not to travel anywhere. I am personally waiting to see if I can get any cheap fares across the globe for exactly things from about Sept onwards :)

BUT, a lingering risk, especially to older persons that face far higher medical risks from this virus, is that I suspect it will be quite some time before travel insurance will be covering you for any hiccup that could be linked to Corona.
 
It already has begun affecting many employees and businesses. I'm an academic at a major university and we're already starting to feel the effects of not having the cash flow in from Chinese students who are currently stuck overseas. Classes have been cut, employees asked to take leave...etc.

I don't really know enough about what will happen, but it's probably best not to book anything too far in advance. Right now, I would say that the risks aren't really high enough to be altering travel plans unless they're to areas where there's been massive outbreaks.
Yes. We work with Universities and the impact is huge. March will be ok, but we are not looking forward to the period April through July at all. The Taxman is going to feel a big pinch from our business. GST revenue for them will be going down the toilet let alone any company profit tax.
 
but as the "novelty" of the entire situation wears off, people will just begin to go back to their normal lives.

The novelty will wear off as people they've got as much a chance of catching it from their boss colleague, teacher or classmate,

As from travelling overseas.
 
It already has begun affecting many employees and businesses. I'm an academic at a major university and we're already starting to feel the effects of not having the cash flow in from Chinese students who are currently stuck overseas. Classes have been cut, employees asked to take leave...etc.

I don't really know enough about what will happen, but it's probably best not to book anything too far in advance. Right now, I would say that the risks aren't really high enough to be altering travel plans unless they're to areas where there's been massive outbreaks.

Maybe Australian universities should have a business model that caters for Australians, rather than offshore students. No different to all the lobster / abalone / tuna / specialised exporters of meat and select F&V.
 
Maybe Australian universities should have a business model that caters for Australians, rather than offshore students. No different to all the lobster / abalone / tuna / specialised exporters of meat and select F&V.

And too many eggs in one basket the mainland Chinese one. But unis not alone in this.
 
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