QantasLink retains Lord Howe Island licence until 2025

[AussieJasmine]

LHI is on our bucket list, so glad QF keep the contract as it's out of the question as anything other than a reward flight - the fares are absolutely ridiculous. An intra-state flight costs more than a trans-continental... it must be a little gold mine for Qantas.

I agree the ATR S series seems like a shoe in for this route. Aside from the technical and regulatory hurdles, extending the runway on LHI would be a public opinion nightmare given the environmental status of the island. It'll be a brave govt than signs off on it.

The smaller Dash-8s are all getting old, so at some point QF is going to have to bite the bullet anyway, and the ATR-42 is the only western aircraft in volume production in that size range. Given Bombardier have sold off the Dash-8 programme and are effectively out of the civil aviation market now, the writing is pretty much on the wall for the model as a whole.

 

[jaceiondalen]

Good news for those who redeem QFF points for this very popular destination!

———
Nox Vidmate VLC

QantasLink To Continue Serving Lord Howe Island​

QantasLink, the regional airline of Australian flag carrier Qantas Airways, has received approval to continue air services to Lord Howe Island for the next three years, with the government stressing the importance of maintaining regional air connectivity.

QantasLink’s license extension for flight operations to Lord Howe Island will kick in from 30 March 2022 onwards, lasting three years, local media outlet Port News reports quoting the New South Wales (NSW) government.

Paul Toole, NSW deputy premier, says the air service is vital for keeping the island’s 350 residents connected to Sydney and to support the tourism industry.

“Around 16,000 Australian and international visitors travel to Lord Howe Island each year, so the extension of the licence will ensure they can continue to explore all it has to offer,” says Toole.

Australia’s QantasLink To Continue Serving Lord Howe Island – Smart Aviation Asia-Pacific

www.smartaviation-apac.com

The new ATR 42-600S should be able to do LDH. Not that QF would acquire them but another operator could.

 

[AussieJasmine]

The new ATR 42-600S should be able to do LDH. Not that QF would acquire them but another operator could.

I wouldn't rule QF out of acquiring ATRs, if not directly then through one of their subsidiaries under the QL umbrella. Their Dash-8s won't live forever and they need something in that size range for regional connections. The ATR is pretty much the only realistic option these days.

* ATR-42/72 family - Both 40-50 and 70-80 seat models on offer and in active production. Mature model, but has future development mapped out. S version offers respectable short field performance. Adaptable, with combi models available. Not very fast, but very economical and cabin has seen improvements with each generation. Proven track record in Australian market as VA operated them for years.

* Q400 - Production suspended. Bombardier has exited the civil aircraft business. Only the largest variant has been offered for years. New owner may or may not restart production and is unlikely to be able to offer future development. Fast and comfortable.

* Embraer new turboprop - Still at a very early concept stage. Likely a good decade away yet, if it happens. If it does, could be a good option further down the road, but it's a long and uncertain toad. The old EMB-120 turboprops have made good regional workhorses with Airnorth.

* Xian MA series and Ilyushin IL-114 are both extreme left-field options given they come from Chinese and Russian manufacturers, respectively. Can't see Canberra being too happy about either, and the older MA versions were called out for safety issues by NZ govt.

There isn't really isn't that much in the turboprop market at the moment, and the jets in the same size range are disappearing too.

 

[SydneySwan]

If only they released classic awards in non winter times to LDH....I'll be back in a flash!

I booked 2 classic rewards return tickets today from Sydney for departure on Feb 23 for 16k points + $160 pp. Certainly better deal than cash tickets north of $1400 return. Now to see if we can find accomodation …… looking bleak so far but at least our tickets are fully refundable If we don’t get lucky.

 

[Jacques Vert]

I booked 2 classic rewards return tickets today from Sydney for departure on Feb 23 for 16k points + $160 pp. Certainly better deal than cash tickets north of $1400 return. Now to see if we can find accomodation …… looking bleak so far but at least our tickets are fully refundable If we don’t get lucky.

Appears that Omicron has a silver lining after all.

 

[kpc]

I booked 2 classic rewards return tickets today from Sydney for departure on Feb 23 for 16k points + $160 pp. Certainly better deal than cash tickets north of $1400 return. Now to see if we can find accomodation …… looking bleak so far but at least our tickets are fully refundable If we don’t get lucky.

I could get 2 award seats 3-8 March Syd-Ldh rtn for similar. Unfortunately we both need to book further in advance to organise leave, cancel clinics etc so even 6 weeks advance notice is not enough for us. Good luck getting accomdation which won't be cheap and don't forget travel insurance as LDH accommodation providers won't provide refunds.

Edit: Couldn't find any accommation at LDH in Feb and Mar! So look for accommodation before booking those flights!

 

[kpc]

@SydneySwan ....any luck getting accomdation at Ldh?

 

[SydneySwan]

@SydneySwan ....any luck getting accomdation at Ldh?

In a word - NO! Best offer we have received so far is availability at Somerset from Mar 5 to 15. We are going to need someone to cancel.

 

[Simon Gunson]

I wouldn't rule QF out of acquiring ATRs, if not directly then through one of their subsidiaries under the QL umbrella. Their Dash-8s won't live forever and they need something in that size range for regional connections. The ATR is pretty much the only realistic option these days.

* ATR-42/72 family - Both 40-50 and 70-80 seat models on offer and in active production. Mature model, but has future development mapped out. S version offers respectable short field performance. Adaptable, with combi models available. Not very fast, but very economical and cabin has seen improvements with each generation. Proven track record in Australian market as VA operated them for years.

* Q400 - Production suspended. Bombardier has exited the civil aircraft business. Only the largest variant has been offered for years. New owner may or may not restart production and is unlikely to be able to offer future development. Fast and comfortable.

* Embraer new turboprop - Still at a very early concept stage. Likely a good decade away yet, if it happens. If it does, could be a good option further down the road, but it's a long and uncertain toad. The old EMB-120 turboprops have made good regional workhorses with Airnorth.

* Xian MA series and Ilyushin IL-114 are both extreme left-field options given they come from Chinese and Russian manufacturers, respectively. Can't see Canberra being too happy about either, and the older MA versions were called out for safety issues by NZ govt.

There isn't really isn't that much in the turboprop market at the moment, and the jets in the same size range are disappearing too.

I have operated the ATR-72. It does not have the runway performance, however the ATR-42 STOL version does. In 2021, I employed an aviation consultant to scope creating an airline in New Zealand. It would be cheaper to create a new airline than extend the runway.

The ATR-42 STOL can haul 48 passengers (5,500kg) from an 800 metre runway and fly 800nautical miles. It can also be converted to a combi freighter, configured for all freight, all passenger, or a mixed load.



This image above is the ATR-72 Freighter, but the ATR-42 Freighter is certified and flying
below is a diagram of the-42 Freighter

 

[Simon Gunson]

I wouldn't rule QF out of acquiring ATRs, if not directly then through one of their subsidiaries under the QL umbrella. Their Dash-8s won't live forever and they need something in that size range for regional connections. The ATR is pretty much the only realistic option these days.

* ATR-42/72 family - Both 40-50 and 70-80 seat models on offer and in active production. Mature model, but has future development mapped out. S version offers respectable short field performance. Adaptable, with combi models available. Not very fast, but very economical and cabin has seen improvements with each generation. Proven track record in Australian market as VA operated them for years.

* Q400 - Production suspended. Bombardier has exited the civil aircraft business. Only the largest variant has been offered for years. New owner may or may not restart production and is unlikely to be able to offer future development. Fast and comfortable.

* Embraer new turboprop - Still at a very early concept stage. Likely a good decade away yet, if it happens. If it does, could be a good option further down the road, but it's a long and uncertain toad. The old EMB-120 turboprops have made good regional workhorses with Airnorth.

* Xian MA series and Ilyushin IL-114 are both extreme left-field options given they come from Chinese and Russian manufacturers, respectively. Can't see Canberra being too happy about either, and the older MA versions were called out for safety issues by NZ govt.

There isn't really isn't that much in the turboprop market at the moment, and the jets in the same size range are disappearing too.

Except for USA trying to set the world on fire the Russian Su80 is worth considering too.
Genuine 800m runway performance.

 

[Jacques Vert]

The ATR-42 STOL can haul 48 passengers (5,500kg) from an 800 metre runway and fly 800nautical miles. It can also be converted to a combi freighter, configured for all freight, all passenger, or a mixed load.

My understanding from a pilot who used to do charter flights to LDH is that, due to the difficulty in landing in unfavourable weather, you need to have enough range to fly to the island AND back (at least to PQQ/CFS).

Would this exclude the 42STOL?

 

[jpp42]

My understanding from a pilot who used to do charter flights to LDH is that, due to the difficulty in landing in unfavourable weather, you need to have enough range to fly to the island AND back (at least to PQQ/CFS).

Would this exclude the 42STOL?

One of the feasibility reports linked on the first page discusses this, and no it doesn't exclude using the ATR42-600S, as long as PQQ is the alternate with good weather. According to GC mapper, SYD-LDH is 425 nm, and LDH-PQQ is 319nm, so 744 nm distance. Adding some extra for the departure route out of SYD, several tries at an approach at LDH, and an approach for PQQ, you'd probably want about 800nm range. I couldn't find an exact maximum range at full passengers and MTOW for the -S, but the non-STOL ATR42 is 825nm, so I presume you could squeeze that out of the STOL with some minor payload adjustments.

Note that the range would be less for the return flight, because it cannot takeoff at the full MTOW from from LDH's short runway (the advertised range from an 800m runway is 703 nm with a full passenger load). But this is okay since there are plenty of alternates along the east coast.

 

[Jacques Vert]

One of the feasibility reports linked on the first page discusses this, and no it doesn't exclude using the ATR42-600S, as long as PQQ is the alternate with good weather. According to GC mapper, SYD-LDH is 425 nm, and LDH-PQQ is 319nm, so 744 nm distance. Adding some extra for the departure route out of SYD, several tries at an approach at LDH, and an approach for PQQ, you'd probably want about 800nm range. I couldn't find an exact maximum range at full passengers and MTOW for the -S, but the non-STOL ATR42 is 825nm, so I presume you could squeeze that out of the STOL with some minor payload adjustments.

Yes, and LDH-CFS is a couple of miles shorter than PQQ but personally, I'ld want a little bit more in reserve. I note the Q200 is quoted at 1,125 on Wikipedia (perhaps not the best source in this instance).

Coming from the marine industry we had a rule of thumb: 1/3 to get there, 1/3 to get home and 1/3 in reserve. Although I'm sure our pilot friends would do a little more detailed calculations than that.

I suspect the 42S would be weight restricted.

 

[jpp42]

Coming from the marine industry we had a rule of thumb: 1/3 to get there, 1/3 to get home and 1/3 in reserve. Although I'm sure our pilot friends would do a little more detailed calculations than that.

The quoted range would not include the 30 minutes of fixed reserve ("final reserve fuel flight time") that is legally required. So there's always a somewhat more fuel than the rough calculations I did - the range calculations need to allow for multiple approach attempts and diversion to the alternate *without* going into the fixed reserve. So it's not quite as running on fumes as the above implies. But I agree that a payload limitation of some sort is likely in both directions, SYD-LDH due to the range issues, and LDH-SYD due to the take off distance. However the feasibility report indicated the 42-S is really the only modern option that makes any sense without requiring a runway extension (which itself has significant limitations due to obstructions, it's not just the environmental impact of the extension itself).

 

[henrus]

I know there was the reasonably recent QF extension running through to March 2025 but I'm surpised there aren't any plans beyond this. If a runway extension was to occur it'd likely take years to construct. Similarly a new aircraft order isn't quick either.

 

[jpp42]

I know there was the reasonably recent QF extension running through to March 2025 but I'm surpised there aren't any plans beyond this. If a runway extension was to occur it'd likely take years to construct.

The feasibility report showed that the main problem with the runway extension of the current runway, even if you could extend it, was nearby obstructions (hills along the extended centreline). The only way around that was to completely rebuild the runway at a different angle which would have such incredible environmental damage and high cost that it wasn't investigated in that much detail.

One thing that wasn't mentioned, that I was interested in, was whether aircraft like the ATR42-600S might have the ability to use a steeper angle to avoid obstructions (similar to what's done at London City Airport, LCY). But this likely comes at a performance/range penalty which given how tight things are anyway, probably wouldn't work out.

The issue with introducing the ATR42-600S right now is the small ATR fleet in Australia especially with VA getting rid of the ATR72's. It's not very economical for an airline to purchase one example of a type due to the number of certifications required (pilots, cabin crew, mechanics, etc) and spares/maintenance supply chain. It's more likely they will keep extending the lifetime of the Dash9-200's - keeping old airframes going for decades longer than originally intended is something the aviation industry has experience with.

 

[kpc]

I could get 2 award seats 3-8 March Syd-Ldh rtn for similar. Unfortunately we both need to book further in advance to organise leave, cancel clinics etc so even 6 weeks advance notice is not enough for us. Good luck getting accomdation which won't be cheap and don't forget travel insurance as LDH accommodation providers won't provide refunds.

Edit: Couldn't find any accommation at LDH in Feb and Mar! So look for accommodation before booking those flights!

About 3 months ago I managed to get 2 classic rewards Syd-Ldh return for Feb next year....will spend 4 nights on our 3rd trip to the island. Was a real bugger getting accommodation even 9+ months in advance....emailed just about every accommodation provider on the island before securing 4 nights to match our flight dates! So if you think securing Qf classic awards to LDH in summer is hard, getting accommodation is even harder!

 

[SydneySwan]

So if you think securing Qf classic awards to LDH in summer is hard, getting accommodation is even harder!

I'd go further and say that getting the classic reward seats is actually the easy part!

 

[antycbr]

I'd go further and say that getting the classic reward seats is actually the easy part!

Having been out there in 2021 the issue is that a lot of properties are still working through the Covid induced changes of date with prepaid accommodation. There’s hardly any beds on LDH anyway and the ill-timed Qantas points planes compounded the issues.

 

[jb747]

It's really not a big issue. London City had a 7.5% gradient, but is now 5.5% - and that's with jets. 4.5% is well within limits of an ATR or Q400.

7.5% is 4.3º. That would give you a sink rate of just over 1,000 fpm...which is the cutoff for a mandatory go around.

5.5% is 3.15º, which is neither here nor there. Marginally steeper, but you'd barely notice.

4.5% is 2.6º, which is less than a normal approach.