Qatar Airways Near to Acquiring up to 20% of Virgin Australia

[Mwenenzi]

If VA were to switch to Avios, they are as good as in oneworld. At that point, I don't know why QF would want to stay in oneworld.

IE and Vueling use avios but are not in Oneworld. International Airlines Group - Wikipedia

Here of AFF (and FT) too many people over emphasise and over think the effect of ff miles/avios/points. Guess 95% of individual pax have little interest or detailed knowledge, even if have signed up for a ffp. (Not all pax are ff members) The other 5% do, but do way more than 5% revenue, 5% of flights and 5% of distance for airlines/alliances.

Can get avios now on most(all?) VA flights:- just put in your QRPC freq flyer number. Status earning & benefit is different.

 

[MooTime]

Agree. To be honest I can’t see how Bain offloading 20% results in massive changes for VA other than a slightly more complicated share registry.

How is having a single owner holding 20% of the share registry complicated? Happens all the time on the bourse.

I see QR leaving oneworld as more likely than QF leaving oneworld. Although having said that QF does have arrangements with AF and KL aleady as well.

Absolutely QF not leaving OW.

Highly unlikely VA will switch to Avios, there just be a transfer option as is with SQ.

Just in bed with QR little more with 20% ownership.

Better options for VA ahead, couldn't be negative.
The more premium airlines in AUS the better, the subpar QF taking the p1s5 out of Aus pax for too long. Once we can easily earn n burn Avios &/or SQ here all the better

 

[Saab34]

The next question is how long is Bain going to be around for. Anyone’s guess post listing how long they will stick around. With the volatile nature of this industry, I wouldn’t expect much more than say 2 years after float.

Then Virgin’s next test comes, can it be a strong listed company, or will they sink back to the cents in the dollar. I assume they will give us some profit numbers for the last FY shortly like they have done in the last few years, I’m interested to see how profitable Velocity is also.

It appears that Virgin will be facing Pilot strike action soon, voting on that is apparently ended last week.

 

[muppet]

How is having a single owner holding 20% of the share registry complicated? Happens all the time on the bourse.

I think you’ll find in my quote I said “slightly more” complicated - which it is … inherently … compared to a single owner.

My main point was I can’t see why a QR stake so small would lead to major changes at VA.

 

[lovestotravel]

I really hope QR doesn't buy into VA as it would mean no more VA for me.

I cannot support the Qatar Government and I will never fly QR....

Back to QF would be a sad day

 

[RooFlyer]

If the QR buy-in goes though, the key question then is - who will be the operator? Put another way, which entity will appoint, or confidently put forward, key management? JH will need replacing - I'm guessing QR will want to appoint, or have a major say in, her replacement. That's how VA and QR will align, to the extent practicable. Will make any public offering more attractive too.

If QR were to leave oneworld, they'd take BA, IB and AY with them. If that happened, the alliance would be effectively dead. The other members, such as AA, CX and JL would step in and try to get QR and QF to come to some sort of agreement to end their "conflict" before something like that could happen.

So Oneworld can live without QF but not without QR?

I really hope QR doesn't buy into VA as it would mean no more VA for me.

I cannot support the Qatar Government and I will never fly QR....

Back to QF would be a sad day

Fair enough, but be aware that the Qatari Govt has an interest in Sydney Airport - maybe 8%? And also the interest in BA and I think LHR. Hard to avoid them, really.

 

[dajop]

OK, someone has to say it. It's been missing so far. Maybe QR will encourage VA to join Star Alliance, then get them to adopt Avios as the currency for Velocity, and allow interchange between Velocity, Privilege Club, Iberia Plus and Executive Club, Avios can reign supreme. Imagine that, being able to use Avios for star alliance or oneworld. Be able to drive up the price you charge credit card companies right away..

 

[RooFlyer]

OK, someone has to say it. It's been missing so far. Maybe QR will encourage VA to join Star Alliance, then get them to adopt Avios as the currency for Velocity, and allow interchange between Velocity, Privilege Club, Iberia Plus and Executive Club, Avios can reign supreme. Imagine that, being able to use Avios for star alliance or oneworld. Be able to drive up the price you charge credit card companies right away..

... and align the FF schemes such that there is one card - sort of like a Wise card - multiple, interchangeable currencies

 

[justinbrett]

Fair enough, but be aware that the Qatari Govt has an interest in Sydney Airport - maybe 8%? And also the interest in BA and I think LHR. Hard to avoid them, really.

Do they? I don’t think directly as they’re not listed on the Sydney Airport Ownership page.

I assume they own part of another shareholder, which probably reduces or even eliminates any direct control of the asset(s).

 

[Himeno]

So Oneworld can live without QF but not without QR?

If QR were to leave oneworld, and take their IAG and Avios partners with them, it would leave oneworld without any members in Europe. The alliance could live without QR, but it couldn't without any members based in Europe.

 

[justinbrett]

If QR were to leave oneworld, and take their IAG and Avios partners with them, it would leave oneworld without any members in Europe. The alliance could live without QR, but it couldn't without any members based in Europe.

I’m still missing the bit where BA dumps its much more profitable partners in North America to blindly follow a ME airline providing almost no long haul feeder traffic (apart from the 3x daily DOH-LHR flights).

A 25% share is not enough to destroy a company. I assume the other 75% wants BA to focus on its profitable routes.

I get why BA is aligned with QR, for the same reason QF is aligned with EK. But QF is still an active oneworld member. These things don’t need to be mutually exclusive. QR has less need to be in an alliance as it seeks to be a global airline.

 

[jase05]

Can’t see too much changing for VA in the short term.
I do hope that one day QR takes a bigger share in BA one day though aswell

 

[RooFlyer]

Do they? I don’t think directly as they’re not listed on the Sydney Airport Ownership page.

I assume they own part of another shareholder, which probably reduces or even eliminates any direct control of the asset(s).

Yes, you'll notice all those listed are "instos" / funds. I did trace the net ownership once and checking, the Qataris have a net 4%. I didn't say anything about "direct control". I mentioned "interest", which is the correct terminology.

Qatar, Singapore funds take backdoor entry into Sydney Airport

Qatar and Singapore’s sovereign wealth funds have flown below the radar to pick up toehold stakes in Australia’s biggest and busiest airport, Sydney Airport.

www.afr.com

Its only an issue for those who wish to be completely untouched by the Qataris.

Qatar Investment Authority has 20% of the consortium that owns the Heathrow Airport company and other Qatari interests 25% of IAG (BA, IB).

Now, one could argue that having 20% of BA etc hasn't manifested itself in any sort of operational control (bar Avios for IB) but VA is a much less mature, more malleable entity.

 

[ANstar]

I believe Qatar also have a small stake in CX.

 

[justinbrett]

Now, one could argue that having 20% of BA etc hasn't manifested itself in any sort of operational control (bar Avios for IB) but VA is a much less mature, more malleable entity.

I think there’s no question anything QR does is going to be in the interests of QR.

But I’m not sure how much influence SQ & NZ had, perhaps it will just be steady as she goes.

I do think Qatar mostly invests to make money, not so much to fulfil its evil agenda. I’ve been to Harrods many times. It still seems very Harrodsy, I doubt the average person even knows its owner. Although plenty of legacy from the previous owner with the Egyptian escalators.

 

[drron]

Do they? I don’t think directly as they’re not listed on the Sydney Airport Ownership page.

I assume they own part of another shareholder, which probably reduces or even eliminates any direct control of the asset(s).

That is only a list of major shareholders and 8% doesn't make that list. As Sydney airport is a private company it is hard to find a true list of investors but in March 2022 Qatar bought a 4% stake. As reported by @RooFlyer
Qatar announced that it had doubled it's total investment in Australia from $A2B to $A4B. Who knows if the airport stake changed.

No wonder the airport supported QRs application for extra flights.

Airlines wasting half their capacity: Sydney Airport boss

Sydney Airport has accused airlines operating out of the United Arab Emirates of wasting almost half of the capacity they have been awarded – some 84 flights every week.

www.afr.com

And if you are trying to avoid companies that Qatar is invested in then add Uber to your list.

Report: Qatar Investment Authority buys stake in taxi tech firm Uber

Backing a technology startups appears to be a departure from the Qatar Investment Authority’s traditional strategy, which has in recent years focused on hospitality, retail, commodities, financial services and real estate.

dohanews.co

 

[justinbrett]

That is only a list of major shareholders and 8% doesn't make that list.

AustralianSuper and Australian Retirement Trust are both listed at 7.5% each.

 

[Phoenix-1]

IE and Vueling use avios but are not in Oneworld. International Airlines Group - Wikipedia

But you cannot book reward seats with Avios, correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[servicerequired]

Urgh, can't SIA just come in and swoop up VA - they've been trying for years to have a presence here, but they just keep stuffing around ... this should have happened in the AN days.

 

[TheInsider]

Urgh, can't SIA just come in and swoop up VA - they've been trying for years to have a presence here, but they just keep stuffing around ... this should have happened in the AN days.

Then VA can join Star Alliance