Qatar applies for extra rights (take two)

[RSVKanga]

QF will just illegally sack their workers and outsource the jobs anyway. They have form in that department

If you want to play the ‘worker’ card, I’m all for it

I can guarantee you the small number of QF workers illegally sacked by the airline live a much better life than the workers QR have allegedly murdered or continue to work under atrocious military-style conditions and are banned from speaking out publicly and privately.

 

[jase05]

If you want to play the ‘worker’ card, I’m all for it

I can guarantee you the small number of QF workers illegally sacked by the airline live a much better life than the workers QR have allegedly murdered or continue to work under atrocious military-style conditions and are banned from speaking out publicly and privately.

Perhaps but this is about your claim in regards to Australian jobs. Qantas has shown in the past that it it doesn’t care about its workers and I work with a QF department every single day and the staff absolutely despise the company and how they are treated

 

[RSVKanga]

While Joe Aston, Bridget McKenzie and all the anti-QF online warriors will be excited with this new application, it’s important to note that the government rejecting this new application will be easier than approving it.

If QR somehow gets approved, there will be even tougher questions raised against the government on why it has changed its stance, and that’s not ideal in election time. Especially as the next election comes closer, I think the government would prefer to stick to their original view and face the same old and familiar questions rather than be confronted with a plethora of new questions on why it has changed its stance. Approving QR would be a sign of weakness and the government being successfully bullied, damaging our sovereignty.

In my opinion QR’s expansion is clearly against Australia’s national interest and I think the government shares the same view. They need to provide clear, concise examples of how QR will harm our economic sovereignty, and there are plenty of examples to refer to. Also, they shouldn’t be afraid to publicly admit to protecting QF profits.

 

[downgraded]

I think the government should be aware of the significant consequences to Australia’s economic sovereignty if QR is granted this whopping 28 extra frequencies. No way should they be given this ridiculous number they are asking for. How many Australianjobs are at risk? How much $ will it take away from our Australian-owned and Australian-based airline which has a vast majority Australianworkforce?

I think people also need to realise that the small gains the Australian economy will make with allowing QR (eg more transport for our exports) will be crushingly outweighed by the consequences I have mentioned above.

“Increased tourism by allowing more QR flights” is another argument from the pro-QR camp but it’s such a furphy as there will be more Australians choosing to go overseas instead of domestic travel/tourism if there are additional QR flights, cancelling out any gain QR gives by bringing international tourists here, or even a net negative reduction in tourism in Australia. How many Australiantourism operators will be at risk by allowing more QR flights?

Airfares are down 13% since last year and will continue to go down. Australia has one of the most competitive aviation markets in the world.

It wasn’t in the national interest then, and I think it continues to not be in the national interest now.


Also, Qatar Airways have now confirmed that they will seek to buy Virgin Australia either in part or in full. I hence request that the moderators reopen the thread “Qatar Airways may buy Virgin Australia in full - what are the consequences?” so that the forum can discuss and debate these new developments. The majority of AFF dismissed it as ridiculous speculation, at the time, now it’s true.

TLDR:

Bad for our Australian-owned and Australian-based airline who employs a 85%> Australian workforce.

Bad for Australian tourism operators, and the Australian cities that depend on tourism.

There's [gotta be one]

Post automatically merged: Jun 4, 2024

Why is QR so obsessed with the big four? They are free to start flying to CNS, CBR, HBA, NTL, OOL and DRW whenever they want at whatever frequency they decide.

Just like your pet QF base international flights from these same ports.

 

[justinbrett]

Here's a question for you. Why does Qantas fly mainly from Sydney, a bit from Melbourne and even smaller amount from BNE/PER internationally?

Because for QF those cities are hubs, for international airlines they are spokes. Arguably for QF international SYD is the only hub and the others are focus cities.

We see this in many countries including the UK and USA.

As for the the rest of this thread I'm staying the hell out...

 

[drron]

I know that @RSVKanga will be absolutely delighted. Because of his/her continuing repetition of how bad QR is I decided we have to find out how bad/good it really is. So last night i booked our first QR flight. I won't be able to experience their Q suites as we will be in the F cabin.

 

[RSVKanga]

I know that @RSVKanga will be absolutely delighted. Because of his/her continuing repetition of how bad QR is I decided we have to find out how bad/good it really is. So last night i booked our first QR flight. I won't be able to experience their Q suites as we will be in the F cabin.

Since when did I say QR have a bad hard product? I never questioned their excellent onboard experience. You missed the point. I hope you have a great flight onboard QR.


I’ve always “repeated” here that QR is bad in that it keeps applying for ridiculously high capacity which is serious harm to Australia’s economic sovereignty, and that includes the profitability of our national carrier, the ability of the government to make sovereign decisions without being bullied and the fact that the Government of Qatar has offered nothing to Australia in return for its proposed deals. These air services deals are between governments, not airlines, and the oil-rich state of Qatar continues to selfishly spit on the fact that these agreements are two-way streets, which is part of why they got rejected last time and why they should get rejected this time as well.

PS: the reason why they have an excellent onboard and airport experience is because of those unlimited oil funds. Low effort, high yield.

 

[kamchatsky]

Since when did I say QR have a bad hard product? I never questioned their excellent onboard experience. You missed the point. I hope you have a great flight onboard QR.


I’ve always “repeated” here that QR is bad in that it keeps applying for ridiculously high capacity which is serious harm to Australia’s economic sovereignty, and that includes the profitability of our national carrier, the ability of the government to make sovereign decisions without being bullied and the fact that the Government of Qatar has offered nothing to Australia in return for its proposed deals. These air services deals are between governments, not airlines, and the oil-rich state of Qatar continues to selfishly spit on the fact that these agreements are two-way streets, which is part of why they got rejected last time and why they should get rejected this time as well.

PS: the reason why they have an excellent onboard and airport experience is because of those unlimited oil funds. Low effort, high yield.

Wouldn't that also apply for EK? EK have far more flights to SYD, MEL, BNE and PER than QR. Why don't you lobby the Australian government to reduce their flight allowances? QF doesn't fly to DXB as well.

Sure, you can say of the QF-EK partnership, but QR is also having a relationship with VA as well, and VA is a provider of many Australian jobs.

 

[JessicaTam]

[mod hat]
Off topic posts have been deleted.

Please stick to the topic.
[/mod hat]

 

[Quickstatus]

unlimited oil funds.

Apart from the 7Eleven fuel price lock discount, they sounds like a good way to recoup a little of what we pay at the bowser.

I would be happy if QR were to increase its flights to/from AU, "National economic sovereignty" is a red herring.

 

[RSVKanga]

VA as well, and VA is a provider of many Australian jobs.

Simple. Virgin Australia’s interests shouldn’t be considered by the government as it is almost 100% foreign owned, is a semi-budget narrowbody airline, doesn’t fly to any international destination outside of Oceania (apart from Bali and Tokyo) and most importantly, could be fully or partially owned by Qatar Airways in the future anyway.

In fact, with this new news that QR has confirmed its interest in buying/partially buying VA, the government considering VA’s interests would actually be the government considering QR’s interests, and hence the interests of the State of Qatar.

 

[kamchatsky]

Simple. Virgin Australia’s interests shouldn’t be considered by the government as it is almost 100% foreign owned, is a semi-budget narrowbody airline, doesn’t fly to any international destination outside of Oceania (apart from Bali and Tokyo) and most importantly, could be fully or partially owned by Qatar Airways in the future anyway.

In fact, with this new news that QR has confirmed its interest in buying/partially buying VA, the government considering VA’s interests would actually be the government considering QR’s interests.

If you feel so strongly about it, why not just submit your opinions to the government directly? Your submission here won't make a difference in what the government will decide.

 

[cosi]

In my opinion QR’s expansion is clearly against Australia’s national interest and I think the government shares the same view. They need to provide clear, concise examples of how QR will harm our economic sovereignty, and there are plenty of examples to refer to. Also, they shouldn’t be afraid to publicly admit to protecting QF profits.

The Gov't failed to give EVERYBODY a clear and definite explanation in rejecting QR take 1 application.

Then, Minister King refused to front the Senate inquiry to provide more detail.

Totally REJECT your comment "if will affect Australia's economic sovereignty".

Still waiting for your reply on what jobs will be QF jobs will be lost in Perth - clearly NOTHING.

In WA, an additional daily flight will be huge for inbound tourism from many part of Europe and in particular the UK.

Clearly QR has much more support this time after the Senate inquiry to get approval.

The reality is its a massive headache for the Gov't who will need to give an clear unquestionable explanation for rejection QR a second time especially after granting 21 flights to Turkish Airlines.

 

[RSVKanga]

Still waiting for your reply on what jobs will be QF jobs will be lost in Perth - clearly NOTHING.

QF may be forced to cut its international services from Perth as it is already clear that Qatar is capacity dumping into Perth (why else are they using the A380 then?) and allowing them to fly even more seats into Perth will only inflame the unprecedented capacity dumping which will make their seats cheaper at the expense of QF flights. That’ll lead to many job losses for QF in the west, east and across the whole country. It’s not just Perth, obviously. There is a big, big difference between competition and large-scale capacity dumping paid for by unlimited oil cash funds.

In WA, an additional daily flight will be huge for inbound tourism from many part of Europe and in particular the UK.

Is this satire? QF10 exists for a reason and is a popular preferred choice of travellers between the UK and WA, and it’s operated by our locally-owned and based national carrier. They are also expanding into Europe with flights to FCO and CDG. I think Australian citizens should ideally be supporting an airline from their own country flying innovative and popular nonstop routes rather the foreign ME carriers flying traditional, boring hub and spoke routes which already exist plentifully in Australia.

 

[andye]

I was lost at the Australian international airline market being competitive.
The airlines charge what the customer will bear.
Check out the cost difference between an Aus-Eur-Aus and an Eur-Aus-Eur return.
The strength of the AUD makes minimal difference to prices either (not always a bad thing I accept)
The only really competitive thing is the battle for award seats between customers

 

[cosi]

QF may be forced to cut its international services from Perth as it is already clear that Qatar is capacity dumping into Perth (why else are they using the A380 then?) and allowing them to fly even more seats into Perth will only inflame the unprecedented capacity dumping which will make their seats cheaper at the expense of QF flights. That’ll lead to many job losses for QF in the west, east and across the whole country. It’s not just Perth, obviously. There is a big, big difference between competition and large-scale capacity dumping paid for by unlimited oil cash funds.

Simple - the demand is present and will have ZERO impact on the direct service QF offers to London.

Is this satire? QF10 exists for a reason and is a popular preferred choice of travellers between the UK and WA, and it’s operated by our locally-owned and based national carrier. They are also expanding into Europe with flights to FCO and CDG. I think Australian citizens should ideally be supporting an airline from their own country flying innovative and popular nonstop routes rather the foreign ME carriers flying traditional, boring hub and spoke routes which already exist plentifully in Australia.

NO satire - only the truth.

Clearly you fail to understand the WA population which has a very large ex pat UK community.

EK and QR means a one stop from Per to many other airports in the UK and Europe.

Same airline to your final destination - a no brainier.

Ask anybody in Perth if they like QF and you will get a resounding NO.

Happy to take the profits from the FIFO's but give very little in return.

Currently Perth has a daily QF to London and Singapore and the seasonal flight to Rome, with Paris coming, but that is the only international services QF offer.

Think how many additional job will be added to service the additional QR service which will be a 777

 

[RSVKanga]

Then, Minister King refused to front the Senate inquiry to provide more detail.

Clearly QR has much more support this time after the Senate inquiry to get approval.

Really?

I personally think there should be a Senate inquiry investigating that Senate inquiry as it was incredibly flawed at best and deeply harmful and wounding to our national interest at worst.

Why on earth would the Australian Senate vote to set up an inquiry with the intent of antagonising a major Australian corporation and icon, and at the same time propping up widespread public support for a specific foreign airline and the foreign government that owns it, which still to this date has failed to outline what they’ll give to Australia in return for more QR flights.

Politicians are elected to serve our country and our country’s national interest (which includes QF profit as QF is Australian owned and based), not the intentions of foreign governments.

 

[RSVKanga]

EK and QR means a one stop from Per to many other airports in the UK and Europe.

And from Perth, QF is also one stop from PER to many airports in the UK and Europe. Why are you suggesting that that’s not the case? Not sure what your point is.

very little in return

Wow. It’s clearly satire at this point, isn’t it? Is flights to Paris, London, Rome, Auckland, Johannesburg and a multi billion dollar brand new PER mega terminal announced a few days ago, just to name a few, “very little in return”?

 

[DC3]

Ask anybody in Perth if they like QF and you will get a resounding NO

 

[RSVKanga]

Currently Perth has a daily QF to London and Singapore and the seasonal flight to Rome, with Paris coming, but that is the only international services QF offer.

Not necessarily QF’s fault. They’ve been wanting to fly to Jakarta, Auckland and Jo’burg from PER for a long time. It’s the behaviour of Perth Airport that stopped this. I’m glad that they seem to have fixed it all and those flights will commence within the next year.

Think how many additional job will be added to service the additional QR service which will be a 777

You tell me. Do you really think jobs will be generated with one additional QR service? Again, not sure if this is satire.