Qatar applies for extra rights (take two)

[RSVKanga]

The “QaTaR bRoUgHT sO mAnY AuStRaLiAns hOMe DuRiNg the pAnDeMic aNd QaNtAs AbAnDonEd uS!!! ” argument is one that is consistently peddled by the QR lobbyists in Australia, but it’s getting old and tired as many Australians realise the truth. QF has its hubs/bases in Australia (with no unlimited oil funds) and all Australians (including all of QF’s primary customer base) were banned by the federal government from travelling, so QF couldn’t fly international unless the government paid them to. It’s that simple. QR’s customer base is basically the whole world, so QR just flew into Australia at a deep loss and offset those losses by flying from Doha to/from the long list of other non-Australian destinations that were open for business at that time, as well as utilising their oil funds. Please respect the facts.

While there is a small minority in the pro-QR camp that have genuine anti-Australia sentiments and motivations (including a couple in this forum), I think most of that group are simply uninformed rather than have an agenda. The above example of “bringing Australians home during Covid” is one that is consistently peddled by both parts of this group.

I ask them to answer the question.

How could have Qantas, an airline based in a country whose customer base was banned by their government from travelling overseas (and also banned foreigners from entering), been able to sustain regular international flights without government support?

 

[justinbrett]

VA should be out of the question as it is almost fully foreign owned by an American firm utilising the naming rights of a British company

The international arm would have to be majority Australian owned.

and will possibly be in the hands of the State of Qatar soon.

A minor shareholder perhaps but I can't see the FIRB allowing full control to any foreign state owned company. And if it did, QR would be using VA as a feeder airline to its long haul routes - so all Europe flights would be via DOH, or an Asian city then DOH, and most likely US via DOH also. It would need significant Australian capital for any of this to happen.

They have only been in Australia since 2000s and there is absolutely nothing about their brand identity that resonates with our country’s image and culture.

Arguably the second half of their name does.

 

[RSVKanga]

but I can't see the FIRB allowing full control to any foreign state owned company

The same FIRB that approved the sale of the Port of Darwin to a China state owned corporation?

Yeah nah. If QR proposes to buy VA in majority or significant minority, getting FIRB approval will be a breeze, considering what they’ve approved in the past.

But unlike geopolitics (Port of Darwin), it really, really won’t be long until they are brutally stung by the consequences of their actions.

 

[justinbrett]

Flag carrier - Simple English Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

simple.wikipedia.org

Yes you just have to pick your definition of Flag carrier

To many people Flag carrier means nothing.

And in the USA it means every airline that is compliant with the Fly America Act.

US Flag Air Carriers | MSU Sponsored Programs Administration

Michigan State University: Advancing Knowledge. Transforming Lives. MSU's teaching and research serve Michigan, the nation, and the world. Est. 1855.

www.cga.msu.edu

That's a pretty terrible source. At least go for big boy Wikipedia.

The list of national airlines on simple wiki is titled "National Skybuses" and has a random list of 7 airlines, with AA as the US airline. Not to mention terrible grammar throughout.

But yes the meaning depends on who you ask, but I think the vast majority would say the national carriers of UK, Ireland and Germany respectively would be BA, IE and LH.

The same FIRB that approved the sale of the Port of Darwin to a China state owned corporation?

a- the port was never sold, only leased

b - the FIRB never approved the lease. It believed it did not have jurisdiction as the lease was from a government entity, which is exempt under the relevant act. Whilst the federal government could have blocked it by passing specific legislation, it is wrong to say they approved it.

 

[dajop]

But you ideally need to have something that resonates with the country’s image and culture.
.....

There is only one airline that meets the current criteria now.

Yes, Jetstar!

 

[RooFlyer]

The “QaTaR bRoUgHT sO mAnY AuStRaLiAns hOMe DuRiNg the pAnDeMic aNd QaNtAs AbAnDonEd uS!!! ”

Say, what?

The Australian public is not a hive mind. Some will fly QF, some will fly other airlines. Many will go with the cheapest.

In any case QF seems to be doing just fine.

Agree entirely.

I ask them to answer the question.

How could have Qantas, an airline based in a country whose customer base was banned by their government from travelling overseas (and also banned foreigners from entering), been able to sustain regular international flights without government support?

And you've asked that question before - at least once - and it was pointed out to you then (or more than once), that no, Australians were not banned from travelling overseas (isn't using bolding fun?) AND there were plenty of Australians already overseas who simply wanted to get back home!

It must kill you to know - Qantas, the Notional Carrier (TM), simply abandoned and let down Australians stuck overseas, yet airlines like Qatar Airways came to the party. I think QR played "I still call Australia Home" on those flights

 

[Ansett Nostalgic]

How much is RSVKanga being paid by the Qantas PR department to belittle Qatar?

 

[justinbrett]

And you've asked that question before - at least once - and it was pointed out to you then (or more than once), that no, Australians were not banned from travelling overseas (isn't using bolding fun?) AND there were plenty of Australians already overseas who simply wanted to get back home!

It must kill you to know - Qantas, the Notional Carrier (TM), simply abandoned and let down Australians stuck overseas, yet airlines like Qatar Airways came to the party. I think QR played "I still call Australia Home" on those flights

That's a completely disingenuous way to represent the events.

Without going back into the forbidden topic - speaking specifically about the flights - there were no capacity issues on the airlines that were flying, in many cases (including QR) pax were only carried if they bought a F ticket as many flights were flying as few as 10 pax.

The limits were set by the state governments and it would have just been the same pie spread over more flights, making the flights that were running even less sustainable (and likely higher fares). If QF had flown scheduled services on top of the government repatriation flights it was flying, not a single extra Australian would have been able to fly home.

 

[Gold Member]

How much is RSVKanga being paid by the Qantas PR department to belittle Qatar?

Careful. A lot of the QF fans <redacted> will pile onto you as well if you suggest ulterior motives and commercial/political interests as I did.

But good for you for speaking up and calling [this member] out <redacted>.

 

[kpc]

Another added to my rapidly increasing "ignored list" sigh.....

 

[justinbrett]

It would be good if people could discuss the posts, and not the posters.

It's a pretty weak position IMO to criticise people rather than debate their arguments.

 

[samh004]

But if the government AGAIN decides to reject Qatar’s application for additional rights, it will need a clear, concise solid explanation and reason - not the BS like last time.

I don't see why the reason can't be linked to the invasive searches they did. They make a lot of money and could easily have apologised and settled (unless I've missed something on this - I have been out of the loop for a while).

It would be a long bow to link the recent faltering of Bonza and what QR could do to the Australian market, but in saying that, Tim Clark recently said airlines shouldn't have razor thin margins anymore, and Qantas has been making good money and in turn returning it to shareholders, so increased competition designed to drive airfares down is actually not in Australian companies interests. Even I realise the days of very cheap airfares are past us.

 

[drron]

Qatar has been doing it's best to impress the Government. not only did they fly many Aussies home after the RAAF had flown them out of Kabul but they have already flown some Australians home from Israel at no cost.

QF had an evacuation flights out of TLV to LHR It was to have 2 flights but it was felt the second was too dangerous.. That part was free but then had to find their own way home.
The airforce had 2 or 3 flights out of TLV to their base in the UAE but not far from DXB. where it is believed most were taken. The QR plane received an exemption to use DBX for their flight. EK also offered a plane to bring any more home.
The VA 737 that was used was at AUH for maintenance and it's evacuation flight was from AMM not TLV.

Virgin and partner Qatar Airways offer help for Aussie evacuation

Virgin Australia and partner airline Qatar Airways are exploring options to help the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade to assist Australians seeking to safely leave Israel.

www.skynews.com.au

 

[Phoenix-1]

It would be good if people could discuss the posts, and not the posters.

It's a pretty weak position IMO to criticise people rather than debate their arguments.

This only works when the posters are arguing in good faith.

 

[RSVKanga]

no, Australians were not banned from travelling overseas

Yes they were. Please stop twisting the truth.

https://www.homeaffairs.gov.au/foi/files/2021/fa-210600779-document-released.PDF

From 1200 AEDT 25 March 2020, all Australian citizens and Australian permanent residents must not travel outside Australia unless exempt, through either being in an automatic exempt category or obtaining an individual exemption by providing the Australian Border Force (ABF) Commissioner with a compelling reason

I’m deeply concerned that nobody else has bothered to easily refute this lie coming out of your keyboard.

Also, moderators, is COVID-19 border policy discussion not allowed here? Some members say it is but I can’t find anything.

That part was free but then had to find their own way home.

BS. The national carrier flew Australians for free on TLV-LHR as well as gave them free tickets on QF2 services in the following days to return to Australia.

Qatar has been doing it's best to impress the Government. not only did they fly many Aussies home after the RAAF had flown them out of Kabul but they have already flown some Australians home from Israel at no cost.

A desperate, failed and arguably laughable attempt to garner more support for extra rights when this issue was a hot topic after their rejection. Qatar Airways is banned in Israeli airspace. That attempt was arguably morally wrong as it is QR’s owner who sponsors the terrorist organisation responsible for the start of the current war. I think most Australians can see through their extraordinary smoke and mirrors in regards to this case.

 

[JessicaTam]

[mod hat]
This thread has been closed for review.
[/mod hat]

 

[JessicaTam]

[mod hat]
Both sides have made their arguments and the discussion has descended to pettiness. This is unacceptable and detracts from the AFF community. The Moderation team is monitoring and further attemps to derail threads will not be tolerated.

This thread is now closed.
[/mod hat]