Qatar denied extra capacity into Australia

[MonteCristo]

From the Guardian today:

"‘Ghost flights’: Qatar Airways flying near-empty planes in Australia to exploit legal loophole​

Qatar Airways has been flying near-empty, and sometimes entirely empty large passenger jets every day between Melbourne and Adelaide to exploit a loophole allowing it to run extra flights to Australia.

Qatar’s ghost flights – an open secret within the aviation sector – are “taking the piss” out of Australia’s strict aviation laws, industry sources say, and are occurring despite the Albanese government rejecting the airline’s formal request to increase flights out of concern the extra capacity would go against Australia’s “national interest”.


The Qatari-government owned airline is currently limited to running 28 weekly services into Australia’s four major airports – Melbourne, Sydney, Brisbane and Perth – allowing it to run once daily return flights from Doha into each of these cities.

However under the existing bilateral agreement, there is no limit placed on how many services Qatar is able to run to non-major airports.

...

The department now continuously monitors Qatar Airways sales to ensure “this condition is being met by the airline”, the spokesperson said.

An industry source said: “The whole purpose is to get to Melbourne … I mean they weren’t even selling tickets (to Adelaide) for the first few weeks.”

“They were taking the piss out of the industry and the laws,” the source said."

‘Ghost flights’: Qatar Airways flying near-empty planes in Australia to exploit legal loophole

Well, clearly it's not a capacity issue at Melbourne then if they can chill there overnight. Taking the piss? Sure. But good on them if the rules are ridiculous.

 

[jase05]

Bring them all to ADL, the more the merrier

 

[openseat]

From the Guardian today:

"‘Ghost flights’: Qatar Airways flying near-empty planes in Australia to exploit legal loophole​

Qatar Airways has been flying near-empty, and sometimes entirely empty large passenger jets every day between Melbourne and Adelaide to exploit a loophole allowing it to run extra flights to Australia.

Qatar’s ghost flights – an open secret within the aviation sector – are “taking the piss” out of Australia’s strict aviation laws, industry sources say, and are occurring despite the Albanese government rejecting the airline’s formal request to increase flights out of concern the extra capacity would go against Australia’s “national interest”.


The Qatari-government owned airline is currently limited to running 28 weekly services into Australia’s four major airports – Melbourne, Sydney, Brisbane and Perth – allowing it to run once daily return flights from Doha into each of these cities.

However under the existing bilateral agreement, there is no limit placed on how many services Qatar is able to run to non-major airports.

...

The department now continuously monitors Qatar Airways sales to ensure “this condition is being met by the airline”, the spokesperson said.

An industry source said: “The whole purpose is to get to Melbourne … I mean they weren’t even selling tickets (to Adelaide) for the first few weeks.”

“They were taking the piss out of the industry and the laws,” the source said."

‘Ghost flights’: Qatar Airways flying near-empty planes in Australia to exploit legal loophole

Well, clearly it's not a capacity issue at Melbourne then if they can chill there overnight. Taking the piss? Sure. But good on them if the rules are ridiculous.

Sounds like the journalist values their membership to a certain lounge.

 

[dajop]

QR applies for extension of landing rights. Aust govt gives QR the cold shoulder.

But I don't think that's the case. It was the Qatar government that requested to increase the cap in the current treaty between Australia and Qatar, not QR specifically applying for additional landing rights. So the Australian government has some reason why it did not (yet) agree to the increase, it could be a bargaining chip as part of broader negotiations about something unrelated or it could be related to the way Australian citizens were treated by the Qatar government in the well known incident, we simply don't know. What confuses thing is how closely linked QR is to the Qatar government.

 

[Quickstatus]

But I don't think that's the case

You are right.

 

[justinbrett]

Well, clearly it's not a capacity issue at Melbourne then if they can chill there overnight.

No it's not and nobody ever said it was.

Airport slots have nothing to do with Air Services Agreements / Treaties (which is what is currently restricting Qatar).

The former is about airport capacity, the latter is about market regulation.

QR applies for extension of landing rights.

Use of the term "landing rights" can be confusing as it's not an official term, and to most more accurately describes airport slots, rather than the right to operate a commercial service. Not having a go, but relevant to the first point I made in this post.

 

[Quickstatus]

"landing rights"

Correct, should have been "services"

 

[jrfsp]

The loophole for an extra 7 services to a regional port effectively encourages this practice.

Hardly a surprise these flights are empty. From a cost / emissions perspective what a waste. Get rid of this loophole, either grant an extra 7 flights a week or dont.

 

[anyonebutqantas]

Catherine King should explain why she's increasing CO2 emissions with this counter-productive policy

 

[Melburnian1]

Catherine King should explain why she's increasing CO2 emissions with this counter-productive policy

Joe Aston in excellent 'AFR' today has another huge go at Alan Joyce and Qantas - well worth a read - and points out that Catherine King of the Feds has now given three different explanations as to why Qatar Airways is being denied permission for these extra frequencies.

Oh what a tangled web we.....

 

[RooFlyer]

Well, clearly it's not a capacity issue at Melbourne then if they can chill there overnight. Taking the piss? Sure. But good on them if the rules are ridiculous.

this isn't new and has been well ventilated on AFF for awhile.

I for one am a beneficiary of the flights Adelaide Melbourne Doha and I’ll be on the flight ex ADL in a month or two.

 

[justinbrett]

Minister King was asked a specific question on this in Question Time yesterday. I won't post a link because I'm fairly sure that violates AFF rules on political posts, but I'm sure you can google it if you want to watch it.

Basically the answer was it's between governments, not airlines and there are many factors at play. She said it was not in the national interest, and specifically highlighted Australian jobs as the main factor.

 

[levelnine]

The protection of Australian jobs is, indeed, crucial.

As Aston's column in the AFR notes today:

Each of King’s explanations has been more implausible than the last. What of the thousands of local jobs that would spring from 28 new flights per week bringing 150,000 foreign tourists to Australia annually?

Secure Australian jobs! Joyce removed nearly 8000 jobs from the Qantas workforce in the 11 years he ran the company before COVID hit.

Qantas just launched new flights to New York via Auckland, crewed by Kiwis. Cheaper New Zealand-based flight attendants are operating Qantas flights between Brisbane and Los Angeles, and Melbourne and Delhi. Qantas’ trans-Tasman flights are crewed by Kiwi flight attendants and pilots. Qantas’ London flights are operated by London-based cabin crew.

Qantas just wet-leased two Finnair A330s (supposedly with Finnair crew attached) to take over Qantas flights to Bangkok and Singapore for two years. That deal was on the basis, Joyce angrily exclaimed, “they are positive for the creation of [Australian] jobs and anyone who says anything else is just completely wrong”. It emerged last week that cabin crew for those two aircraft will be provided by Asian labour hire firms!

Qantas illegally sacked 1700 baggage handlers in 2020. Qantas, the TWU and King’s cabinet colleague Tony Burke – the Workplace Relations Minister who argued in support of the TWU – are awaiting the High Court’s appeal judgment.

 

[Gold Member]

Minister King was asked a specific question on this in Question Time yesterday. I won't post a link because I'm fairly sure that violates AFF rules on political posts, but I'm sure you can google it if you want to watch it.

Basically the answer was it's between governments, not airlines and there are many factors at play. She said it was not in the national interest, and specifically highlighted Australian jobs as the main factor.

LOL, first it was the environment, then some other lame excuse, and now Australian jobs. This is legalised corruption masquerading as the Australian Government acting in the “best interests of all Australians”.

For reference, there’s a good write up in today’s Fin if anyone cares to have a gander. EDIT: Levelnine has posted an excerpt above.

 

[jrfsp]

The protection of Australian jobs is, indeed, crucial.

As Aston's column in the AFR notes today:

Very true, QF employ's 000s less than a few years ago....all outsourced to cheaper labour or offshore.

 

[drron]

The protection of Australian jobs is, indeed, crucial.

As Aston's column in the AFR notes today:

That link is paywalled but go to the 12ft site which always works for me on AFR articles.

 

[justinbrett]

Very true, QF employ's 000s less than a few years ago....all outsourced to cheaper labour or offshore.

The government doesn't care about how many QF employ.

The vast majority of those jobs still exist and are in Australia.

 

[RooFlyer]

The government doesn't care about how many QF employ.

Really? Are they the only employer they don't care about? I would have thought any government would care about every firms ability to employ (more) Australians.

 

[jrfsp]

The government doesn't care about how many QF employ.

The vast majority of those jobs still exist and are in Australia.

Except the federal government sided with the union in the high court in the matter of illegal sacking of workers.

Perhaps not raw numbers but the government definitely cares about the conditions under which staff are employed (and laid off)

 

[justinbrett]

Really? Are they the only employer they don't care about? I would have thought any government would care about every firms ability to employ (more) Australians.

That was exactly my point.

If jobs move from company A to company B, they're still Australian jobs.

Except the federal government sided with the union in the high court in the matter of illegal sacking of workers.

Perhaps not raw numbers but the government definitely cares about the conditions under which staff are employed (and laid off)

Wait - I thought QF bought the government off?

Well, this is an inconsistent story!