Qatar denied extra capacity into Australia

[Pushka]

This is just such a furphy, while such flights were definitely limited they did fly internationally so never ‘banned’. Not sure why we even consider such untruths as requiring further comment, the OP clearly has an agenda.

Fair enuf. He
/she kept repeating it so just thought I may have been wrong but wasn't convinced I was. Clearly I wasn't. It changes their whole argument then. Qantas was no victim.

 

[SYD]

Qantas was no victim.

Yeah, it was when 100% of its international network was impacted by our inability to leave the country and a bunch of rules that would have made operating limited commercial flights problematic. Foreign airlines had some exemptions that meant crew could FIFO without quarantine etc. Plus 90 odd percent of their networks didn’t have the same constraints as say Oz and NZ.

It’s a shame VA went pear shape at the time. Had they been flying international, they would have done exactly the same as QF.

But anyway, “rewarding” QR because they could fly during Covid is an argument that actually detracts from the more important question of getting the right balance of sustainable competition that’s good for us but also good for local operators.

 

[justinbrett]

It’s a shame VA went pear shape at the time. Had they been flying international, they would have done exactly the same as QF.

They did. On 18 Mar 2020, VA1 announced a suspension of all international operations 24 hours after QF announced a 90% reduction, well before VA went into administration (link).

They both recommenced when the government stepped in, and once that money run out, both VA2 and QF again suspended international operations on the same day (link).

There's a lot of revisionists here!

 

[Pushka]

Yeah, it was when 100% of its international network was impacted by our inability to leave the country and a bunch of rules that would have made operating limited commercial flights problematic. Foreign airlines had some exemptions that meant crew could FIFO without quarantine etc. Plus 90 odd percent of their networks didn’t have the same constraints as say Oz and NZ.

It’s a shame VA went pear shape at the time. Had they been flying international, they would have done exactly the same as QF.

But anyway, “rewarding” QR because they could fly during Covid is an argument that actually detracts from the more important question of getting the right balance of sustainable competition that’s good for us but also good for local operators.

They weren't special victims as many of Australia's businesses were victim to the Covid travel restrictions. Our business plummeted overnight. That doesn't mean they warrant further particular support from the Government. What I objected to here was the statement that Qantas was prohibited by legislation from operating Nationallly and Internationally. They weren't. They chose not to. That doesn't make them victims any more than many other Australian businesses, some of which never made it through.

 

[cove]

Qatar has great products that Mrscove appreciated. The fact that they are a Middle East airline just means you won’t get an apology if something goes very wrong.
I would like to see Qatar grow their business in Australia.

 

[SYD]

They weren't special victims as many of Australia's businesses were victim to the Covid travel restrictions. Our business plummeted overnight. That doesn't mean they warrant further particular support from the Government. What I objected to here was the statement that Qantas was prohibited by legislation from operating Nationallly and Internationally. They weren't. They chose not to. That doesn't make them victims any more than many other Australian businesses, some of which never made it through.

Yes, the earlier statement about QF being “banned” from flying was totally incorrect. However, their primary customer base (us) were indeed banned from leaving the country (without rare Government approval). So, yes they and many other travel related industry were particularly badly impacted by various Government decisions - including the state border chaos.

But that’s still not the basis for determining bilateral access rights moving forward.

 

[Pushka]

But that’s still not the basis for determining bilateral access rights moving forward.

Yes I agree but it does make me want to give them special consideration.

My son got approval to exit Australia in October 2020. On the first application. We were gobsmacked he got it. Flew out on Qatar. An award flight in J redeemed via Qantas. Reward seats on Qatar were so easy back then, but only out! I think I had three award flights, one a week until he finally picked one. Anyway, off topic I guess.

 

[justinbrett]

Yes I agree but it does make me want to give them special consideration.

My son got approval to exit Australia in October 2020. On the first application. We were gobsmacked he got it. Flew out on Qatar. An award flight in J redeemed via Qantas. Reward seats on Qatar were so easy back then, but only out! I think I had three award flights, one a week until he finally picked one. Anyway, off topic I guess.

There were stories of people not getting approval to attend their parent/children's funerals.

Again, a lot of revisionism happening here (not doubting your specific account)

 

[Pushka]

There were stories of people not getting approval to attend their parent/children's funerals.

Again, a lot of revisionism happening here (not doubting your specific account)

Yes. It was an awful period in Australia's history. So many sad stories and random refusals in dire circumstances. Much of it unforgivable. Thats why we were taken completely by surprise he got it.

I posted about his approval here:

Experience with Australian border controls leaving the country

Can give a few more data points on this, Mrs eastwest101 + kids had to apply for an exemption to travel from Australia to Japan (direct NH flights still operating SYD-HND) due to an urgent family medical emergency of a relative in Japan. The Dept of Home Affairs Travel Restriction Exemption...

www.australianfrequentflyer.com.au

 

[drron]

There were stories of people not getting approval to attend their parent/children's funerals.

Again, a lot of revisionism happening here (not doubting your specific account)

There is the flip side though. For Australians overseas who wanted/needed to come home first needed to be under the arrival cap for their state and then find a seat on a plane. QR at least gave them a chance along with a few other foreign airlines.
And not all states prevented family from seeing their dying loved ones or attending their funeral.

 

[justinbrett]

And not all states prevented family from seeing their dying loved ones or attending their funeral.

The departure waiver ("Travel Exemption") was granted by the federal government.

 

[drron]

The departure waiver ("Travel Exemption") was granted by the federal government.

And I was talking about arrivals as some dying Australians had family Overseas.

 

[eastwest101]

Yes. It was an awful period in Australia's history. So many sad stories and random refusals in dire circumstances. Much of it unforgivable. Thats why we were taken completely by surprise he got it.

I posted about his approval here:

Experience with Australian border controls leaving the country

Can give a few more data points on this, Mrs eastwest101 + kids had to apply for an exemption to travel from Australia to Japan (direct NH flights still operating SYD-HND) due to an urgent family medical emergency of a relative in Japan. The Dept of Home Affairs Travel Restriction Exemption...

www.australianfrequentflyer.com.au

Thanks for your kind thoughts - its off-topic but as a follow-up to this Mrs Eastwest101 did get fast approval from the Federal Government at the time to exit Australia and the Japanese Government expedited their inbound quarantine so they got to spend a few days with the dying relative before he passed away, this was the last time these kids saw their father, so despite this tragic event the Australian Federal Government at the time and the Government of Japan made human allowances, and because NH were still flying mostly freight between Japan and Sydney that this was possible. On return to Sydney - they of course had to pay for quarantine in Sydney and I thought it was fair that we paid the NSW government for their "hospitality", imagine my surprise seeing the footage of the QLD Deputy Premier ripping up the invoices that NSW government sent the QLD state government because the QLD state government wanted to play politics with the Feds about where the QLD Quarantine facilities were supposed to be!

I can just thank god that my own family who live interstate, didn't have any health issues or worse because although flying to Japan to see a dying relative was possible, but as an Australian citizens it often wasn't possible for people in different states to attend to seriously ill relatives. When you've been beaten in the flexibility and kindness stakes by the Japanese Government and the Morrisson Government then you know that you have lost the argument. As you say Pushka - your son got to travel in similar circumstances thanks to some national flag carriers who didn't throw in the towel and continued to fly important freight services at the time. Does anyone care to guess how a lot of those various vaccines made their way into Australia?

Anyway - I understand that a lot of people were less fortunate than us in 2020 and 2021, but it was no thanks and zero credit given to Qantas or to certain state governments about these events from my point of view. I don't expect a comprehensive inquiry into the response to Covid to ever happen, because it would simply be too embarrassing for too many people and organizations.

 

[justinbrett]

And I was talking about arrivals as some dying Australians had family Overseas.

And the conversation was about the restrictions Qantas was under.

None of the international airlines flying to Australia had network wide pax caps like Australian airlines did (I include VA even if only short haul) as they at least could operate higher capacity in other regions of the world, especially in 2021 when large parts of the world got back to travelling.

The capacity far exceeded the pax caps (eg often only first class being sold), so if QF flew services beyond government charters it woud have been the same number of pax distributed over an even greater number of flights, making them even less sustainable.

 

[drron]

And the conversation was about the restrictions Qantas was under.

None of the international airlines flying to Australia had network wide pax caps like Australian airlines did (I include VA even if only short haul) as they at least could operate higher capacity in other regions of the world, especially in 2021 when large parts of the world got back to travelling.

The capacity far exceeded the pax caps (eg often only first class being sold), so if QF flew services beyond government charters it woud have been the same number of pax distributed over an even greater number of flights, making them even less sustainable.

Actually I thought the thread was about QR not QF so my point stands.

 

[justinbrett]

Actually I thought the thread was about QR not QF so my point stands.

In so far as you want to make a selective point whilst ignoring the context that makes it irrelevant, sure.