Qatar denied extra capacity into Australia

[RSVKanga]

What a load of rubbish. QF is about as Australian owned as any other publicly listed company on the ASX. If you're going to apply that absurd logic to QF then it should apply to every company listed on the ASX. What do you do then about the foreign based companies listed on the ASX?

Have you even heard of the Qantas Sale Act?

 

[MARTINE]

What a load of rubbish. QF is about as Australian owned as any other publicly listed company on the ASX. If you're going to apply that absurd logic to QF then it should apply to every company listed on the ASX. What do you do then about the foreign based companies listed on the ASX?

And incredibly Qatar Investment Authority and Singaporean GIC were between them able to buy 7+% of Sydney Airport two years ago.

No objection

Its a complex nuanced discussion - agreed

Hence, I am not sure why a MEC that makes a privately listed company in Australia profitable should be rewarded (the only ones rewarded are 51% shareholders and AJ et al) and the govt should be anticompetetive to other players.. and that excuses the petrodollars but thats just my take.

I will bow out now

 

[Pushka]

Why should the Australian Government protect a privately owned Australian company? Other than Qantas - it doesn’t. Nor should it.

 

[Warragul]

Why should the Australian Government protect a privately owned Australian company? Other than Qantas - it doesn’t. Nor should it.

That is the nub of the argument right there and not just in international air services.

It is similar to the free trade discussions around Australia,or you home country, first or protect the local industry to a degree for the perceived national good. For example, should we still have a heavy industry ( like cars even though they can be imported cheaper)? Lots of countries do, including ones we have 'free' trade agreements with.

Answer is above my pay level.

 

[RSVKanga]

Why should the Australian Government protect a privately owned Australian company? Other than Qantas - it doesn’t. Nor should it.

Qantas is not just an Australian-owned airline, it’s the flag carrier designated by the Government. You are struggling to interpret what advantages airlines get in being designated as a flag carrier.

A flag carrier is a transport company, such as an airline or shipping company, that, being locally registered in a given sovereign state, enjoys preferential rights or privileges accorded by the government for international operations.

[Wikipedia]



Have a nice day.

 

[oz_mark]

Qantas is not just an Ausyralian-owned airline, it’s the flag carrier designated by the Government. You are struggling to interpret what advantages airlines get in being designated as a flag carrier.

A flag carrier is a transport company, such as an airline or shipping company, that, being locally registered in a given sovereign state, enjoys preferential rights or privileges accorded by the government for international operations.

[Wikipedia]



Have a nice day.

While I think the term flag carrier doen't mean that much these days, what preferential rights or privileges are they?

Let me think

• right to peddle influence on political or moral matters.
• right to award gifts or privileges to elected officials.

 

[UP4014]

Why should the Australian Government protect a privately owned Australian company? Other than Qantas - it doesn’t. Nor should it.

I disagree there, it should protect Australian owned business as it should protect us as residents and citizens.

 

[eastwest101]

1. Qantas is the Australian-owned flag-carrier of Australia. It should be normal and routine practice for the federal government to protect and defend it against its competitors and re-establish level playing fields if necessary, as with what happened with the Qatar rejection

2. Qatar Airways has unprecedented access to infinite oil funds to a level where they can afford to pay crew and waste fuel for completely empty flights in Australia (MEL-ADL-MEL). Qantas could never. This shows the extent of what Qatar could do and it erases the idea of supply and demand.

3. Emirates, while also having unprecedented oil fund access, has however significantly contributed to the restoration of Qantas profits in 2015 when its international arm was failing at the start of last decade - and they still maintain extensive network and loyalty ties through their continued joint venture. Emirates, and the UAE, should be rewarded.


Also, Virgin Australia’s interests shouldn’t really be considered due to the following reasons

- They are 95% foreign owned; Australia doesn’t benefit from any positive performance from VA
- They are not a flag carrier of Australia
- They have no long haul aircraft
- They have a very limited international network, even their domestic network doesn’t make the cut; not many inland Australians destinations compared to Qantas
- They are not a full service carrier

Let me rephrase points 1 to 4 for you:

1. Qantas is the designated flag carrier of Australia and is a private company so should be protected from all competitors.
2. Qatar a state-owned flag carrier has access to government backing & if it competes then the law of supply and demand ceases to exist, they do not affect the market but you want to ban them anyway.
3. Emirates signed a commercial JV agreement with Qantas and should therefore receive preferential treatment (unless that agreement ends then refer to point 2 because they are a petro-dollar baddie).

4. Foreign-owned airlines such as Virgin and Rex at the moment provide no benefit to Australia, so the people working at VA and Rex are all fictional, they do not pay taxes, provide any services, and do not contribute to the aviation industry, that's an interesting proposition for anyone thinking of investing in a new airline in Australia.

So you're against foreign owners or competitors unless they sign a JV with Qantas, you don't believe in competition and seem to think that the price of airfares and freight have no relevance to international trade and many other Australian businesses. Owning a long-haul fleet of widebodies makes you immune to competition concerns and designates you a "flag carrier" status, unless you are Virgin in 2020 in which case you should be allowed to fail except if you are Qantas and you want to harvest job-keeper payments from the Federal Government. Do you see any internal contradictions in your assertions yet?

Everyone clear on that now?

 

[RSVKanga]

• right to peddle influence on political or moral matters.
• right to award gifts or privileges to elected officials.

All perfectly fine. They’ve been doing it for decades.

 

[Daver6]

Qantas is not just an Ausyralian-owned airline, it’s the flag carrier designated by the Government. You are struggling to interpret what advantages airlines get in being designated as a flag carrier.

You keep peddling the same falsehood that it's Australian owned. That's not the case. As soon as one single share is owned by a foreign entity, that statement is no longer true. Given the foreign ownership cap is 49% calling it Australian owned is a massive stretch of the imagination.

For the sake of transparency and perhaps so people can understand more clearly where you're coming from, can you answer these two questions @RSVKanga ?

1) Do you hold shares in Qantas?
2) Do you or close family members work for Qantas?

 

[Pushka]

I disagree there, it should protect Australian owned business as it should protect us as residents and citizens.

Except it doesn’t protect most Australian businesses from overseas intrusions.

Post automatically merged: Jan 5, 2024

Qantas is not just an Ausyralian-owned airline, it’s the flag carrier designated by the Government. You are struggling to interpret what advantages airlines get in being designated as a flag carrier.

A flag carrier is a transport company, such as an airline or shipping company, that, being locally registered in a given sovereign state, enjoys preferential rights or privileges accorded by the government for international operations.

[Wikipedia]



Have a nice day.

I’m still waiting for you to provide evidence that Qantas was banned from interstate and overseas travel during Covid. So honestly don’t take much notice of anything written anymore.

 

[RSVKanga]

You keep peddling the same falsehood that it's Australian owned. That's not the case. As soon as one single share is owned by a foreign entity, that statement is no longer true. Given the foreign ownership cap is 49% calling it Australian owned is a massive stretch of the imagination.

For the sake of transparency and perhaps so people can understand more clearly where you're coming from, can you answer these two questions @RSVKanga ?

1) Do you hold shares in Qantas?
2) Do you or close family members work for Qantas?

Qantas is majority Australian-owned and there is legislation that requires it to be since it’s a national asset. Australian shareholders are in control of Qantas. You mention a foreign entity purchasing a single share in a company immediately removes the title of it being ‘locally owned’ - but it’s not just Qantas - a degree of foreign ownership is also permitted in many international airlines that are majority, but not fully locally owned (AirNZ, Singapore Airlines, Lufthansa, Air Canada, American Airlines, Delta, United, Cathay Pacific etc) - just to let you know


Answers to your questions:

1) At the present moment, no, I don’t own any shares in Qantas

2) At the present moment, no, I don’t work for Qantas or have close family that works for Qantas


I love how being loyal to my national carrier online immediately paints me as an alleged alt account, paid shill, external influencer, manipulator or propagandist.


<redacted>

 

[JessicaTam]

[mod hat]
A large number of off-topic posts have been removed.

Stick to the topic or don't post at all!
[/mod hat]

 

[Lynda2475]

Though NZ does have 2 direct flights from SYD to CHC and back per day.
Population Christchurch 381 thousand.
Population Adelaide 1.3 million.

Not sure what relevance this post is, since we have far more favorable arrangements with NZ.

But i will remind you 15% of New Zealanders live in Australia mostly on the east coast, and CHC is a gateway for more than just CHC itself. So in addition to Aussie tourists and business travelers there is a huge market in NZers making family visits.

And whilst QF doesnt fly internationally from ADL they have multiple flights a day to SYD, MEL, BNE that can easily connect with NZ flights.

You can be sure if there was a large enough market for QF to Fly ADL-CHC they would do so, since they can.

 

[drron]

Not sure what relevance this post is, since we have far more favorable arrangements with NZ.

But i will remind you 15% of New Zealanders live in Australia mostly on the east coast, and CHC is a gateway for more than just CHC itself. So in addition to Aussie tourists and business travelers there is a huge market in NZers making family visits.

And whilst QF doesnt fly internationally from ADL they have multiple flights a day to SYD, MEL, BNE that can easily connect with NZ flights.

You can be sure if there was a large enough market for QF to Fly ADL-CHC they would do so, since they can.

Relevant because it replied to this post which said NZ doesn't fly internationally out of CHC. Was trying to equate that with QF offering no flights out of ADL.

Alright, what about an example closer to home; New Zealand - they don’t have a “good” train system - if you want to get from say Christchurch to Auckland by land you’d have to drive for hours and take a ferry - no channel tunnel between north and south islands as well so it’s similar to Australia.

Adelaide and Christchurch face the same situation. Apart from a few Australian routes, AirNZ has 0 long haul destinations from Christchurch, New Zealand’s second largest city. It’s because CHC does not have a population, corporate or leisure characteristic that is heavy enough to satisfy an AirNZ long haul international hub despite major international airlines such as EK and AA tapping in to CHC with their daily flight. People can connect to Christchurch on AirNZ from their long haul network in Auckland. Adelaide is no different unfortunately. The best Adelaide can get from Qantas without serious government support are potential flights to NZ on the A220. What is the major corporate/financial significance of Adelaide? Adelaide’s tourism profile might be good locally (eg proximity to wineries) but it doesn’t stand a chance against Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane and Perth on the international stage.

 

[p--and--t]

Why should the Australian Government protect a privately owned Australian company? Other than Qantas - it doesn’t. Nor should it.

Naive statement. SPC, CocaCola Amatil, GMH, just a couple examples of hundreds of companies that have received government largesse both state and federal to renew plant, pay employees, improve productivity so the business can continue.

 

[Pushka]

Naive statement. SPC, CocaCola Amatil, GMH, just a couple examples of hundreds of companies that have received government largesse both state and federal to renew plant, pay employees, improve productivity so the business can continue.

I understand companies receive grants etc, that isn't really what I meant although likely that's what I typed. More along the lines as to whether the Government actively block their competitors from trading here?

 

[RooFlyer]

All perfectly fine. They’ve been doing it for decades.

Sorry? Bribery and corruption ("right to peddle influence on political or moral matters; right to award gifts or privileges to elected officials") is OK because its been happening for decades? The Mob would love to have a piece of that!

 

[RSVKanga]

Sorry? Bribery and corruption ("right to peddle influence on political or moral matters; right to award gifts or privileges to elected officials") is OK because its been happening for decades? The Mob would love to have a piece of that!

I really, really don’t see how that’s bribery and corruption. Bribery is completely out of the question as it was Qantas that requested money from the Government, not Qantas lending money to the Government. And you clearly haven’t seen examples of real corruption in Australia and other countries.

 

[burmans]

Get real. We all know here what happened during Covid.

Please show me where the legislation states that Qantas was banned from flying internationally and domestically during Covid. My understanding is that cancellation of flights was an operational one and not one enforced by Government. Big difference.

However you try to rationalise your anti Qatar stance, or is it your pro Qantas one? both Liberal and Labor Governments in SA gladly accepted them during Covid and want them to increase services post Covid. There was much comment about the trade they were maintaining for us. The current Govt basically states Qantas Int have abandoned us. Go figure.

This is just such a furphy, while such flights were definitely limited they did fly internationally so never ‘banned’. Not sure why we even consider such untruths as requiring further comment, the OP clearly has an agenda.