Qatar denied extra capacity into Australia

[justinbrett]

I can't help but think QATAR shot themselves in the foot with not continuing OW arrangements and shifting to VA, and there is no doubt lingering tensions from the disastrous events affecting Australian women at DOHA (the report on which remains secret).

VA would have tried to block it, like they did the proposed QF/JL JV. Or the QF-name a carrier-alliance. Doesn't mean the government has to listen though.

 

[levelnine]

No, that's how the mechanics work - they can fly to a gateway and then on to a secondary port, like they have done with CBR & ADL.

But they can't even fly passengers on just the link between the gateway and secondary port.

It's Qantas protectionism all the way down.

I don't subscribe to AFR. But the largest government money was through the International Freight Assistance Mechanism, which is pay for services. Another large chunk was waivers of government fees (eg ATC) for domestic services, which all domestic airlines benefited from.

Less than a billion went on Jobkeeper, which was used for the intended purpose.

Wrong. JobKeeper, a flat out subsidy, was the largest part of the assistance package. Let me help you out. From the article:

Under the International Aviation Support (IAS) package, the government is paying the airlines to collectively retain and retrain 8600 staff tied to their international businesses and wake-up their wide-body fleets.

Qantas – with about 7500 workers in its international division – is in line to get about $174.4 million under this scheme. Meanwhile, under the much-publicised half-price airfare help aimed at kick-starting travel demand announced at the same time as IAS, Qantas will get a maximum of $144.8 million.

These figures, when added to prior disclosures by the company to a Senate hearing in May, take Qantas’ total share of taxpayer funding for airlines north of $1.5 billion.

This includes $726 million from the JobKeeper wage subsidy paid to tens of thousands of stood down staff; $102 million in federal fee refunds; $276 million to underwrite key domestic flights and overseas repatriation services; plus $110 million for freight assistance.

 

[muppet]

But they can't even fly passengers on just the link between the gateway and secondary port.

It's Qantas protectionism all the way down.



Wrong. JobKeeper, a flat out subsidy, was the largest part of the assistance package. Let me help you out. From the article:

True, but in the case of QF the subsidy was actually fairly paid and transferred to staff.
Unlike many companies whose employees still had work and the JobKeeper just increased the company profits.

 

[justinbrett]

But they can't even fly passengers on just the link between the gateway and secondary port.

It's Qantas protectionism all the way down.



Wrong. JobKeeper, a flat out subsidy, was the largest part of the assistance package. Let me help you out. From the article:

You might want to check the date on that article. My source is scathing of QF, so definitely not cooked.

QantasKeeper 2022 by The New Daily - Infogram

infogram.com

QantasKeeper: Was Australia’s largest pandemic bailout a ripoff?

The 'Spirit of Australia' was deemed too big to fail during the pandemic, but the public isn’t sharing in the spoils of its stunning recovery.

thenewdaily.com.au

 

[UP4014]

It's the politics of flying, AeroMexico and the local pilots union there last year put effort into blocking Qatar and Emirates from routes to Mexico.

It's starts off great, but we don't have the population to really grow passenger numbers significantly so airlines just try to 'take' the same limited passenger pool from each other. We all like to complain when QF outsources services to save money then we'll complain again when the service is lost.

 

[Pushka]

QR can increase services to ADL, DRW, CBR, CNS, OOL etc. direct to that port and then do their tag to the premium ports.

Qantas Int will never return to Adelaide.

 

[dsotm]

Especially annoying as AmEx launched a 20% Avios bonus this morning.

 

[levelnine]

You might want to check the date on that article. My source is scathing of QF, so definitely not cooked.

QantasKeeper 2022 by The New Daily - Infogram

infogram.com

QantasKeeper: Was Australia’s largest pandemic bailout a ripoff?

The 'Spirit of Australia' was deemed too big to fail during the pandemic, but the public isn’t sharing in the spoils of its stunning recovery.

thenewdaily.com.au

LOL that does not help your cause. As the article notes, it's only a payment for a service if one gets something approaching value for that service. Otherwise, it's just a hand out by another name.

Anyway, back on topic. The AFR cuts right to the chase in its reporting on the subject:

The Australian government has terminated a request from Qatar Airways to add more Australian routes, dashing hopes that consumers might get relief from high international airfares.

In a move that should boost Qantas’ international earnings, Transport Minister Catherine King said: “The Australian government is not considering additional bilateral air rights with Qatar”.
Nationals MP and opposition spokesman on tourism Kevin Hogan said it was disappointing and did not make sense for travellers. “I strongly support competition in the sector and more slots for airlines like Qatar would be beneficial to our slow recovery in international tourism,” Mr Hogan said.

Sources said Qatar Airways both maintained services for stranded Australians, and also played a significant role in evacuating Australians when Kabul fell to the Taliban in August 2021, and had been seeking an expansion to its landing rights in a show of goodwill.

The bid was understood to have had the support of state premiers keen to see more international tourists return. But another industry source said granting Qatar more landing rights would potentially destabilise the landscape as other airlines return to full capacity.

It looks like the only group in Australia in favour of the Government's decision was Qantas (oh, and some unnamed 'industry source' ha). Surprise surprise.

 

[jakeseven7]

Qantas Int will never return to Adelaide.

They definitely will once the A321 fleet is online in scale. Whether it is to where you want to fly of course is personal!

 

[RooFlyer]

I agree with this decision. Why hand over the premium ports to be milked by a foreign company? Short term, yes we get cheaper fares, longer term we lose local jobs and get higher fares once the locals are broke. Surely if we learned anything from 2020 it was the need to maintain local industries (not that QF helped much).

How are local jobs lost when you allow an existing player additional services into the country?

Presumably you are referring to possibly Qantas cutting back services because of lessening of demand for them. yep, thats competition, right there. Also presumably Qantas would then try to improve it's offering to get those customers back.

if allowing QR additional services into Australia would send Qantas broke, then perhaps we should just let it go if it’s that weak.

Lessening competition and allowing Qantas maintain it’s very high fares is just another form of state subsidy.

 

[Pushka]

They definitely will once the A321 fleet is online in scale. Whether it is to where you want to fly of course is personal!

I think I’ll be dead by then! When is ETA?

 

[justinbrett]

LOL that does not help your cause. As the article notes, it's only a payment for a service if one gets something approaching value for that service. Otherwise, it's just a hand out by another name.

Take it up with the government. That scheme included foreign airlines.

I'd argue people who booked flights on QR and others who had flights cancelled multiple times and/or forced to by a F ticket at exorbitant prices didn't get value for money either.

Best we leave Covid stuff back in the box. It has nothing to do with this discussion.

 

[levelnine]

Best we leave Covid stuff back in the box. It has nothing to do with this discussion.

Completely agree.

Let's take stock of the winners & losers of this decision.

Winners
- Qantas' shareholders
- Qatar's international competitors

Losers
- Australian customers
- Australian tourism industry

I know which side I'll pick any day of the week.

 

[jase05]

They definitely will once the A321 fleet is online in scale. Whether it is to where you want to fly of course is personal!

And depending on what the J product is like.

 

[RooFlyer]

They definitely will once the A321 fleet is online in scale. Whether it is to where you want to fly of course is personal!

judging by the number of people here on AFF who go out of their way to avoid the B737 trans-con, I’m not so sure that’ll be an attractive, international product versus competitors. are they going to have lie- flats?

 

[justinbrett]

I think because this was a unilateral application (ie, asking to change the treaty, not approval of an alliance or JV) I don't think we'll see a document of the decision - not one that will be released anyway. In any case, I'm not sure the current government and its backers are any friend of QF.

judging by the number of people here on AFF who go out of their way to avoid the B737 trans-con, I’m not so sure that’ll be an attractive, international product versus competitors. are they going to have lie- flats?

JetBlue does, so no reason they can't if the market supports it.

 

[RooFlyer]

I'm not sure the current government and its backers are any friend of QF.

show me a polly or a public servant that doesn’t love the Chairmans lounge.

JetBlue does, so no reason they can't if the market supports it.

sorry, I was referring to Australia trans con and the avoidance generally of narrow bodies for long haul (>3 to 4 hrs) routes.

 

[VPS]

I think I’ll be dead by then! When is ETA?

or maybe even just too old to fly

 

[justinbrett]

show me a polly or a public servant that doesn’t love the Chairmans lounge.

Did VA lobby for QR from their beyond lounges? Maybe it's their fault.

sorry, I was referring to Australia trans con and the avoidance generally of narrow bodies for long haul (>3 to 4 hrs) routes.

Well I think that's just a function of aircraft availability; when the 767 was in operation that was the standard for transcon (including routes like BNE/DRW).

My point was that aircraft type can support long haul seating. If it makes financial sense, I'm sure they will consider it. AA also have the A321T.

 

[RooFlyer]

Did VA lobby for QR from their beyond lounges? Maybe it's their fault.

That’s a pretty weak response to the undoubted privilege extended to politicians in public servants by free access to the Chairmans lounge. I mean influence is exactly what Qantas is after in doing that.