QF announce non-stop Perth-London B787 Services

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Re: Melbourne the latest City to get shafted by Qantas

Still they could have decided to fly MEL-DXB and just dropped the DXB-LHR leg. That would have been a compromise of sorts. As it stands the EK partnership holds little value now for MEL based passengers from late March next year. They may as well scrap the EK partnership then.

Why do you say this?

I suspect you are, again, viewing this from the perspective of wanting QF metal wherever you go, possibly 4 class metal at that(ie: A380 with F).

QF has clearly signaled that they see better use for the 380 pulled from MEL-DXB-LHR on other missions (as discussed to distraction already).

EK are bumping their 408/409 service to an A380 taking up any capacity shortfall there may have been.

I'll repeat what I've said earlier. a QF passenger, in the main, wants access to schedule and price. EK as codeshares out of MEL offers multiple options to DXB and beyond. Clearly QF feels they can seel these services at a price that competes with other options while using the 380 capacity elsewhere.

This is EXACTLY what the EK partnership gives QF. So suggesting the partnership holds "little value" to MEL based pax and "should be scrapped" makes very little sense in my view.

The only reason one might make this sort of comment is, again, losing the QF metal and upgrade possibility - which you've commented on previously. I agree absolutely, from that point of view, it is a loss, but there are still going to be options - go via SYD or PER. If upgrading Y->J or J->F is that important you'd cop the one hour flight to SYD right? (and compete with many more for the same seats of course )

for the vast bulk of passengers things like upgrades and having aussie crews are almost not on the radar, specially when it comes to schedule and price. This can even apply in the business fare world too, where if you're on a contract or have time constraints, you'll care less about QF metal, but look to what gets you there quickest, which would be EK (if you're in the QF world, or on a travel contract or similar).

So again, on what basis do you make the claim that "... the EK partnership holds little value now for MEL based passengers from late March next year" ?
 
Re: Melbourne the latest City to get shafted by Qantas

Still they could have decided to fly MEL-DXB and just dropped the DXB-LHR leg. That would have been a compromise of sorts. As it stands the EK partnership holds little value now for MEL based passengers from late March next year. They may as well scrap the EK partnership then.
Did you really think that through? You would fly an a/c full to DXB and leave them there when most transit through to LHR normally.

A study of Aviation Management or Aviation Economics would say that that idea is full of holes. Most leisure (and even business pax) book through flights and don't expect to change carriers half way.
 
I won't be taking this flight. ~17+ hours in 9-across whY is just a bridge-too-far. Plus we've got a little one accompanying us these days and he doesn't particularly seem to enjoy flying (as anyone else who was onboard VA850 yesterday from SYD to MEL could easily confirm). Now Berlin would be interesting - although I can already do that 1-stop from Melbourne on QR or EY/AB.

Overall though I actually think the 789 will serve QF well. Yes for 'aware' customers like those on AFF it may act as a deterrent, although the lure of status will help vitiate that effect. I suspect that if any aircraft will allow QF to run frequent international services from cities other than Sydney (and to a lesser-extent Melbourne), it'll be the Dreamliner.
 
Re: Melbourne the latest City to get shafted by Qantas

Well they could have retimed the MEL-DXB flight to link up with QF1 and if the one carrier the whole is so important why doesn't QF fly their own planes anywhere in Europe other than LHR from DXB?

I may end up flying via SYD sometime (I believe that gets more SCs than going via Perth?), but QF should value their MEL passengers enough to continue flying the A380 from MEL.
 
Re: Melbourne the latest City to get shafted by Qantas

Well they could have retimed the MEL-DXB flight to link up with QF1 and if the one carrier the whole is so important why doesn't QF fly their own planes anywhere in Europe other than LHR from DXB?
Because, like the rest of us they have finite resources and its all about getting the maximum yield out of those resources.

I may end up flying via SYD sometime (I believe that gets more SCs than going via Perth?), but QF should value their MEL passengers enough to continue flying the A380 from MEL.
Do you think they haven't done the sums? They will have worked VERY hard on analysing all the options prior to committing to anything.
 
Re: Melbourne the latest City to get shafted by Qantas

Well they could have retimed the MEL-DXB flight to link up with QF1 and if the one carrier the whole is so important why doesn't QF fly their own planes anywhere in Europe other than LHR from DXB?

Why would they when the home carrier, who they partner with, has oodles of widebodies to go to everywhere from DUB to BCN and God knows whereelse?

That makes zero sense.

I'd also comment that while when the 787 order was announced there was some speculation that QF might fly it to DXB then have a mini hub there that too makes little sense, even ignoring the congestion at DXB (soon to be replaced by the new Dubai World Airport) why put a relatively small a/c out from there just to serve FRA or CDG when EK offer multi-daily flights.

Just doesn't make any kind of sense.

I may end up flying via SYD sometime (I believe that gets more SCs than going via Perth?), but QF should value their MEL passengers enough to continue flying the A380 from MEL.

WHY? You still have not answered the question I asked earlier. You suggested the EK partnership was "worthless" to MEL pax post March, 2018 yet have not backed that up.

Some could spin it that QF do care about MEL pax by offering the PER option in addition to multiple daily EK departures that connect through to europe with even better connection opportunities, specially if there's a delay or such (hello QF 380 reliability issues).

It strikes me that perhaps you should have rephrased your earlier ocmment to say "The EK partnership will be worthless TO ME after March, 2018" - but then again, with that logic it's probably worthless to you right now.

Sorry to sound harsh but your comments suggest a very narrow point of view without viewing the bigger picture.

IMHO.
 
How did you get those dates? Matrix will only let me look up to 330days in advance.

Select the outbound date within the 330 day window and then search for a calendar of lowest fares, which will then show you the lowest fares in the month thereafter. I class availability limited and have not actually booked yet but I'm going to give it a go!
 
Is that for real? It's further out than Qantas is currently selling. $4,600 for J ATH-LHR-PER-BNE return is suspiciously amazing considering PE for just PER-LHR return prices at $5,060+ for any dates in April :confused:

Of course, haven't booked this one yet though. Perverse as it may seem starting your itinerary ex-EU rather than LHR can in some cases half ticket costs for taking the very same flights. This is a ticket TO Perth though, can't comment on those from. It's I class availability you want and that's often much better from EU airports. Also, the fare rules can be more forgiving than the LHR equivalents.
 
Obviously this will upset the Melbourne folk, but at least they can stop over in Perth on the way to the EU to watch the AFL GF when its played here one day :rolleyes:

Maybe - but only when the 40 year contract that the AFL Comission signed with the MCG way back, which expires some time in the 2030s from memory. That was rammed thru when the Comission was loaded with VFL Clubs funnily enough. I think our flying will be very different by then! Probably a reason I really don't care too much whether the Melbourne folk are upset or not.
 
Re: Melbourne the latest City to get shafted by Qantas

As it stands the EK partnership holds little value now for MEL based passengers from late March next year. They may as well scrap the EK partnership then.
The EK partnership expires in late March next year and there doesn't yet appear to be any moves to extend, change or otherwise renew it.
 
Re: Melbourne the latest City to get shafted by Qantas

The EK partnership expires in late March next year and there doesn't yet appear to be any moves to extend, change or otherwise renew it.

I'd say the PER-LHR route and drop of MEL-DXB-LHR service, in the medium term at least, indicates it's probably going to stay.

If not, QF either have something way better lined up (hard to see, tbh) or they've decided they just really don't want to do much business, at least internationally, anymore.

The only way this change (QF9) works for QF is to rely on the EK flights taking up the pax slack via codeshares ex MEL (and other ports, and outbound from DXB too).

IMHO.
 
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Re: Melbourne the latest City to get shafted by Qantas

I don't have much to add to this whole thing except an interesting comment from a QF manager at the footy over the weekend that I was invited to by P1 team.

I mentioned the general level of unhappiness with the changes to QF9, lack of QF metal out of MEL and the timings of the new service into LHR.

It was mentioned, as suspected, that the issue with LHR is slot related and they can only get a few slot times, most of them not very desirable.

It was also mentioned that while the current QF9 timings are brilliant for ex-MEL or AU pax, the other way has been problematic and difficult for QF as leaving at lunchtime means you can't have a full day's work in the UK before heading out (though of course there is QF2)-

Of course the 1330 departure of the "new" QF10 isn't much different to current, so I'm not entirely sure this will make a lot of difference with QF's "departure slot dilemma" but it could well be that having a spread of options via EK and QF2 as well as QF9 means people can get to MEL..

So not a whole lot to add unfortunately!

Thanks for the info. The LHR lunchtime departure is not a problem workwise as a full day is done the day before and the departure time means leaving for LHR before I would start work anyway so no half days wasted. When I worked outside London and had to connect to an evening departure it always meant leaving work early (or an enforced extra day of leave when a boss was not flexible). The lunchtime dep means an early start from the regions but no lost work day. It is also better because the evening arrival in MEL means not having a day of jet lag to get through whilst trying to work as is the case with early morning arrivals.
 
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Re: Melbourne the latest City to get shafted by Qantas

In regards to a late night departure from MEL for QF9, it is possible they could introduce this (pending LHR slot availability) with a second daily flight (which I am sure I read about on Ausbt, quoted by AJ). :confused: With 236 seats a day, I think this route is going to be popular with higher load factors than what some of us might imagine. I speculate this route could go double daily by July '18. And even then, that's only 472 seats per day and I'm sure they can make the flight profitable with only filling the premium cabins alone.

Possible 2nd daily flight:
MEL2020 2220PER
PER2350 1010LHR
LHR2130 2115PER
PER2245 0510MEL


A morning Heathrow departure could be the new QF10, after arriving as QF9 at 05:10am
LHR0900 0845PER
PER1015 1640MEL


Also, I think a 90 minute turn around in PER and MEL (before QF95) is very generous for a 236 seater. If an A330-300 can turn around in 60 minutes, then so can the B787-9 :cool:
 
Re: Melbourne the latest City to get shafted by Qantas

The EK partnership expires in late March next year and there doesn't yet appear to be any moves to extend, change or otherwise renew it.

Why? Because nothing has been said? It'll be renewed because they wanted a 10 year JV, and there has been nothing to say it will finish next year.
 
In regards to a late night departure from MEL for QF9, it is possible they could introduce this (pending LHR slot availability) with a second daily flight (which I am sure I read about on Ausbt, quoted by AJ). :confused: With 236 seats a day, I think this route is going to be popular with higher load factors than what some of us might imagine. I speculate this route could go double daily by July '18. And even then, that's only 472 seats per day and I'm sure they can make the flight profitable with only filling the premium cabins alone.

Possible 2nd daily flight:
MEL2020 2220PER
PER2350 1010LHR
LHR2130 2115PER
PER2245 0510MEL


A morning Heathrow departure could be the new QF10, after arriving as QF9 at 05:10am
LHR0900 0845PER
PER1015 1640MEL


Also, I think a 90 minute turn around in PER and MEL (before QF95) is very generous for a 236 seater. If an A330-300 can turn around in 60 minutes, then so can the B787-9 :cool:

90 minutes may be just building in a bit of leeway while they bed down the route.
 
Re: Melbourne the latest City to get shafted by Qantas

Thanks for the info. The LHR lunchtime departure is not a problem workwise as a full day is done the day before and the departure time means leaving for LHR before I would start work anyway so no half days wasted. When I worked outside London and had to connect to an evening departure it always meant leaving work early (or an enforced extra day of leave when a boss was not flexible). The lunchtime dep means an early start from the regions but no lost work day. It is also better because the evening arrival in MEL means not having a day of jet lag to get through ehilst trying to work as is the case with early morning arrivals.

Yes, understand and agree. tbh what I was told didn't make a whole lot of sense in some respects but it is what it is.


In regards to a late night departure from MEL for QF9, it is possible they could introduce this (pending LHR slot availability) with a second daily flight (which I am sure I read about on Ausbt, quoted by AJ). :confused: With 236 seats a day, I think this route is going to be popular with higher load factors than what some of us might imagine. I speculate this route could go double daily by July '18. And even then, that's only 472 seats per day and I'm sure they can make the flight profitable with only filling the premium cabins alone.

Possible 2nd daily flight:
MEL2020 2220PER
PER2350 1010LHR
LHR2130 2115PER
PER2245 0510MEL


A morning Heathrow departure could be the new QF10, after arriving as QF9 at 05:10am
LHR0900 0845PER
PER1015 1640MEL


Also, I think a 90 minute turn around in PER and MEL (before QF95) is very generous for a 236 seater. If an A330-300 can turn around in 60 minutes, then so can the B787-9 :cool:

Interesting timings and I like the idea. Still less load than a 380(or the 2 flights would equal one-ish).

Obviously higher load factors will occur given the far lower seat count, and that's what QF wants, and would offset the CASM on the route, specially if they achieve the yield the initial pricing suggests they want.

2xdayily, or say a latr flights a few times a week make a real mix of options for those who prefer QF over EK (or other carriers).

A morning departure out of LHR I am not so sure about, though in conjunction with the lunchtime QF10 and evening QF2 gives a real spread.

I imagine though that more 787's might fund asian flying or perhaps flights to secondary euro routes (egL FRA). QF couldn't make it (or CDG) work with a 747 or 380 - too big, but the seat count and economics of the 787....

... though I think asia will be a real focus too. Can see 789's a 333's mixing it up on Asian routes too.

it will be interesting to see the strategy evolve with the fleet over the next few years that's for sure.
 
So, playing devil's advocate, with so few 789s in the fleet, what happens to PER-LHR when inevitably an airframe goes tech?
 
So, playing devil's advocate, with so few 789s in the fleet, what happens to PER-LHR when inevitably an airframe goes tech?

Pretty much the same as when a 380 goes tech, I guess.

Revenue Passengers spend the next 24/48 hrs being shunted to the next available airframe and the CEO gets to go home on the very next flight (dons flame-proof coat :p) ... !!

Regards,

BD
 
Re: Melbourne the latest City to get shafted by Qantas

Also, I think a 90 minute turn around in PER and MEL (before QF95) is very generous for a 236 seater. If an A330-300 can turn around in 60 minutes, then so can the B787-9 :cool:

An A330 can actually turn around in 45min!
 
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