QF announce non-stop Perth-London B787 Services

[astrosly]

Well, if QF was filling the A380 with premium pax, they wouldn't be axing the service. So MEL residents have smacked themselves in the teeth by being cheapskates. Alan Joyce made the point some time back that sales for premium tickets ex MEL are way below sales for premium tickets ex SYD (in proportional population terms).

<snip>

This comment reminds me that some time ago on an award F from SYD I was curious that the cabin was 100% full and mentioned this to one of the clearly-run-off-her-feet crew who said they were chockers in all of F, J and PE. What about Y? Oh, only 50%.

 

[astrosly]

Something I've been playing around in my head, in line with my profession...

Take out the last two rows of Y, is a total of 16 seats (row 59 is 7 abreast). This could give the other 17 rows 4-5 extra inches each. Completely revolutionary, something you could actually market as absolutely world-leading economy. (Maybe it's too much - so take out the final 7 seats and spread 2+ inches per row - to 34" pitch.)

Then you can position Qantas as the BEST and most spacious economy in the world, perfect for the only AUS-London direct route. A marketing dream, and as first mover something that will stick in people's mind.

The question is would the potential loss of $10-20k in revenue/AUS-LHR sector if all prices stayed the same AND when 100% full in Y make up for the additional bookings/ability to justify the higher pricing? How many people (lots) only purchase on cheapest price alone, and how many would have the idea of a significantly better economy experience stuck in their mind as the first to offer such great comfort at the back of the bus? Would this lead to overall higher loadings annually?

The main point, (and I agree the majority of pax do book on price) - how many of those people are already flying Qantas? I almost never find Qantas the cheapest option to anywhere international, especially ex AU.

Just my thoughts from a branding perspective.. Easy to say without the weight of having to follow through to market and without hard data to back up your assumptions.

I am one of those folks that is happy to pay 30-50% more for 20-30% more space especially on long haul. However, I do baulk at paying almost 100% more for 20-30% more space which is often what QF price their premium economy at. Pricing is just one factor in the purchase of a ticket but I understand that can be the only or primary factor for many. I think if they offered more room in economy for their Y ticket premium they could see more sales and I would pay that extra if I could get 34-37"+ pitch in Y (even if I don't get extra width).

 

[astrosly]

I see Qantas are selling QF9/10 for domestic legs MEL-PER-MEL. Prices in Y are higher than the pure DOM flights. And no sign yet of a PE option (that I could see).

Yes I can't see the option either and I was hoping to see some trans-con PE options with this flight.

 

[mviy]

Yes I can't see the option either and I was hoping to see some trans-con PE options with this flight.

I guess they may op-up P1/CL flying MEL-PER just Domestic to PE if they have to do op-ups.

 

[JessicaTam]

I'll just leave this here: Madness: Last QF9 A380, First QF10 B787

 

[Himeno]

How about this

LHR/BER/PAR/ROM - PER - BNE/SYD/MEL - ORD(BNE only)/DFW/LAX/SFO - LHR/BER/ROM/PAR

Total round the world on the roo.

some 5th, 6th, 7th or whateverth freedom flights approvals needed though.

Or this but I would think there is less demand. PER-LHR-HNL-PER

QF have 5th freedom rights North America-Europe. They haven't used them for quite some time.

 

[Brettmcg]

Re: QF PER LHR still not for sale

The email sent out by Qantas this afternoon seems to hint that the 2x A380s being taken off MEL-DXB-LHR will be redeployed to SIN and HKG.

Personally I expect that as soon as the MEL-DXB-LHR flights stop, QF will start refurbishing the A380 fleet one at a time with new F and J seats. The other spare aircraft would likely be used to make SYD-HKG a daily A380 flight. I'm not so sure that QF would really put the A380 back on SIN flights (at least outside of peak periods), but that would be nice.

Once the entire fleet is refurbished and the full fleet of 12 A380s are back in service, I would expect them to be used on a new long-haul route (possibly to the USA). But time will tell.

From QF Internal Comms.

I imagine they know full well what they will be doing, but they're telling staff they still haven't made a decision yet.

I could see a refurbed config omitting F completely. It would be almost exactly what happened to the 744s way back when.

 

[katiebell]

Re: QF PER LHR still not for sale

That's perhaps the odd thing. QF is high density in economy. Yet a 5am arrival in winter when it's cold and dark and hours before you can check-in won't appeal to a lot of people.

Even worse when we have been told the seat width in Y is 17.2inches, ie the same as on a B737. That really would be hell and at a premium price! 0510 arr LHR means being woken 0300 local in J, earlier in Y. No matter how miraculous the B787 is for jet lag, this wake up time is too early and, as mentioned elsewhere, hotel rooms are just not available at that time (and prepaying the previous night is no guarantee: hotels have been known to treat next morning arrivals as no shows and give away the room).

 

[katiebell]

The changes to QF9 should make the F lounge in MEL a tad roomier.

With fewer F seats ex MEL I'm concerned that the Flounge will be enhanced and, at very best the hours cut to only those services with F. If MEL becomes the B787 hub then perhaps it really wil be a downgraded port with no F or F services... That really would be bad and QF showing itself as the spirit of Sydney.
When QF29/30 flew MEL-LHR via HKG the service has heavily booked, much more then QF9/10 via SIN. QF dropped it and cut capacity ex MEL. Now there is to be acut of over 50% MEL-LHR. Yet pax ex MEL are at record levels. QF's offerings are, ssemingly, not to the liking of MEL pax if they thick they cannot fill seats. Having said that, I cannot remember the last time the plane was not chockers.

 

[downgraded]

Re: QF PER LHR still not for sale

I'm still waiting for my email from QF WP marketing to tell me my guaranteed shadow is a new published perk that might make Y possible for this flight.
Until then at least I can still go via Sydney or pick one of the other plethora of A380 carriers that have rational(ish) seating width. The time saving is negligible to be worth any premium, it's still one stop and a full security screening, and not bring able to sit straight in a seat for 17hours makes the concept madness.

Presumably 787 will get early domestic reviews across all classes - it'll be interesting what public opinion has to offer.

 

[Quickstatus]

IIRC, The QF A380 still has to undergo the permanent wing rib fix, so this work might be undertaken from next year when A380 are in surplus?

 

[katiebell]

Re: QF PER LHR still not for sale

Whilst I'll be pleased to avoid DXB I'm not impressed with the timing of the new QF9 MEL PER LHR. It will be another day not at work (current very late pm departure allows a full day at work) and a lost day (to jet lag & fatigue) from the 0510 arrival. nNo amount of Boeing 'magic' can compensate for sleep deprivation caused by being woken at 0300 or earlier for 0510 LHR arrival. nothing beats the old QF29 for minimising jetlag. This really is important in my flight booking decisions. The new QF10 timing is good.
Also will miss the F cabin points upgrades. Going via SYD is really not an option: last time the mandatory 4 hour connection just ruined the F experiences as I sat in the grotty dom J lounge when I could have been home. Also as mentioned previously, the bus connection, having to clear customs and recheck in bags... The SYD Flounge is nowhere near as good as MEL Flounge.
If the price is right I'll try this and test it out but I would not pay a premium for the service.
If taking family this will not be an option as the crampedY seating would be unbearable. This is evening allowing for rumours of the offset Thomson seating being installed. Whilst being pushed sideways by a broad shouldered pax in the current seating is bad, I do not think having shoulders and arms impinging on my space immediately in front of me would be any better and, if the pax cannot see the paxnext/sl. behind then there will be even more encroachment.
Overall initial impressions are a few positive features but far more negatives.
The overall mostly uniform negative comments in this thread make me wonder what sort of market research was done and which market was actually surveyed.

 

[kamchatsky]

Re: QF PER LHR still not for sale

I would have thought for a lot of other people, 5am arrival at LHR is actually good because it beats a lot of the incoming flights from around the world, and meaning less queue on immigration anyway? That's what I experienced last time I went to LHR.

Surely by the time you get your luggage, and clear immigration, it should be around 6am?

 

[Bundy Bear]

Re: QF PER LHR still not for sale

Nice that Qantas finally got around to announcing the flight from Perth to London, will hope to one day fly London to Australia(Perth from next year) novelty factor for sure.

I am a little surprised that Melbourne-Dubai-London got completely cut, no one in their right mind would fly from Melbourne to Perth to London on a 787 when there are so many other options.

Why didn't Qantas keep a Melbourne to Dubai departure and connect the 2 flights the one from Sydney into the one flight going to London.

I always thought that Qantas had 3 pairs of slots into London, 2 early morning arrivals and one afternoon, arrival and departure and 2 late night departures.

I guess now Melbourne Qantas fliers will feel like how Brisbane was treated by Qantas.

Still hard to understand Qantas scheduling with London,

Good they are linking Perth with LA

 

[CaptJCool]

Re: QF PER LHR still not for sale

So is the only bonus here that QF9 still leaves international terminal in Melb?

cause the pricing sure is rotten.. would need to knock back 3 bottles of finest champagne or spirits to get the value from the price gouged fare

 

[Melburnian1]

Re: QF PER LHR still not for sale

...

I always thought that Qantas had 3 pairs of slots into London, 2 early morning arrivals and one afternoon, arrival and departure and 2 late night departures.

I guess now Melbourne Qantas fliers will feel like how Brisbane was treated by Qantas....

From memory QF has four pairs of slots at LHR: two are leased to BA. These slots are worth millions of dollars each, allegedly.

 

[mviy]

Re: QF PER LHR still not for sale

Why didn't Qantas keep a Melbourne to Dubai departure and connect the 2 flights the one from Sydney into the one flight going to London.

Wondering the same thing. A problem is that they would presumably still need 2 planes to go only as far as Dubai and more planes would be on the ground for longer. But then why not fly from Dubai to another European destination on the A380?

I've got a feeling whatever deal QF has done with EK limited their options for what they could do without doing some renegotiation of their deal with Emirates that likely would have resulted in some concessions in other areas being asked for by Emirates.

If the only research one did on this was listening to QF talking up the 787 you'd think that they'd announce any day now that they'd replace the SYD A380 service with a 787 via PER as well.

 

[oz_mark]

Yet EK has come straight in and upgauged its 777 to an A380. So clearly there are plenty of pax traveling out of MEL. It's just that QF can't seem to lure them in with its product and service.

The upgauge was co-ordinated with Qantas as part of this change.....

 

[hutch]

Re: QF PER LHR still not for sale

Wondering the same thing. A problem is that they would presumably still need 2 planes to go only as far as Dubai and more planes would be on the ground for longer. But then why not fly from Dubai to another European destination on the A380?

I've got a feeling whatever deal QF has done with EK limited their options for what they could do without doing some renegotiation of their deal with Emirates that likely would have resulted in some concessions in other areas being asked for by Emirates.

If the only research one did on this was listening to QF talking up the 787 you'd think that they'd announce any day now that they'd replace the SYD A380 service with a 787 via PER as well.

Yield. What destination in mainland Europe could Qantas extract sufficient yield over using the planes on a slot constrained HKG? Additionally the fleet utilization would be poor... assuming you want to go MEL-DXB-mainland Europe and meet up with QF1/2 in DXB, you'd need to use an extra A380.

 

[katiebell]

Re: QF PER LHR still not for sale

From memory QF has four pairs of slots at LHR: two are leased to BA. These slots are worth millions of dollars each, allegedly.

Yes 4 slots.
Given the LHR slots constraints it is interesting that QF are cutting more than 25% of capacity to LHR