QF Double Status Credit Promos - I am not 100% sure I follow the logic anymore...

[UP4014]

Swap to Qatar, Emirates, Malaysian, BA, AA, etc etc. All the lounge benefits often at cheaper prices.

there you go, I'm not interested in Qatar, Emirates or Malaysian and on AA you need to buy a cold one (well the second one).

 

[wannabe_wp]

I got a targeted "3000 points extra offer" when I fly to India, Myanmar or Vietnam from QF and I was like "WHAT!!?!?!?!?!?!?!" really, just 3000 bonus points ??

I fly a lot to India and did around 6 trips this year, all with QF and that's how they knew my flying pattern.

3000 bonus isn't going to lure me into a booking with QF. A DSC on the other hand, CERTAINLY will

That wasn’t targeted. It was on the front page of the Qantas website.

 

[RichardMEL]

It's not like bonus SC promotions have gone away though. They are being targeted now and at varying levels.

 

[levelnine]

With Virgin offering big bonuses as part of its 10million member promotion (bonus SC and points) and Qatar offering fast track to Gold and Platinum at the moment, Qantas has fallen far off the pace.

 

[RichardMEL]

With Virgin offering big bonuses as part of its 10million member promotion (bonus SC and points) and Qatar offering fast track to Gold and Platinum at the moment, Qantas has fallen far off the pace.

Both airlines are in far worse situations (VA financial, QR political) than QF tbh. This HAS to be a factor.

 

[woodborer]

Both airlines are in far worse situations (VA financial, QR political) than QF tbh. This HAS to be a factor.

It's not unusual for companies to have a marketing campaign based around some milestone.

10 million members for Velocity
10 years of the Etihad-Virgin partnership

Seems reasonable they would have some promotions, and also seems reasonable that Qantas would see no real need to match them

 

[RichardMEL]

It's not unusual for companies to have a marketing campaign based around some milestone.

10 million members for Velocity
10 years of the Etihad-Virgin partnership

Seems reasonable they would have some promotions, and also seems reasonable that Qantas would see no real need to match them

Sure, and expect a few for QF100 too

It doesn't mean that promotions will be more when a carrier is struggling for one reason or another.

 

[levelnine]

Both airlines are in far worse situations (VA financial, QR political) than QF tbh. This HAS to be a factor.

By that metric, last year was the worst year on record for QF because it had a record three DSC offers, which is clearly wrong.

 

[Matt_01]

It's not like bonus SC promotions have gone away though. They are being targeted now and at varying levels.

Unless you are P1. I can not recall ever receiving a targeted offer be it SC or points since becoming P1 and other P1s I know have had a similar experience.

 

[RichardMEL]

Unless you are P1. I can not recall ever receiving a targeted offer be it SC or points since becoming P1 and other P1s I know have had a similar experience.

Well moi aussi.. but plenty of anecdotal eivdence that the targeted promotions are well and truly in play.

P1 has NEVER (that I know of) gotten bonus SC promos.. and as I've opined many times before (zzzzz ) that makes perfect sense to me from QF's point of view.

I've had the odd bonus points promot. There was one about six months ago I got IIRC. I registered for kicks then forgot about it until it credited and I chuckled.

 

[RichardMEL]

By that metric, last year was the worst year on record for QF because it had a record three DSC offers, which is clearly wrong.

Good observation.

Of course that doesn't have to be the ONLy reason for promotions but IIRC QF was seeing a lack of demand in the 2nd half of last year IIRC though the Oct DSC promo so soon after Aug was a big surprise.

 

[nutwood]

I suppose the lack of promos for P1 is based on the logic that they want P1's to earn their status. As with most QF logic, I can't help but think that it's flawed. Few people would aim at P1 simply as a status goal. Most P1's would have the status because their life involves a lot of flying. They are valued by Qantas because of the $ spend. These are precisely the people whom should be targeted by SC offers. SC offers to P1's actually cost QF very little, unless they are stressing about too many LTPs?! Most P1s have , or are close to, LTG. If someone is doing sufficient flying this year to be P1, they'll probably do the same next year, unless they change jobs. Promos makes people feel valued and I can't see how it matters if a P1 re-qualifies in nine months or twelve.

 

[RichardMEL]

I suppose the lack of promos for P1 is based on the logic that they want P1's to earn their status. As with most QF logic, I can't help but think that it's flawed. Few people would aim at P1 simply as a status goal. Most P1's would have the status because their life involves a lot of flying. They are valued by Qantas because of the $ spend. These are precisely the people whom should be targeted by SC offers. SC offers to P1's actually cost QF very little, unless they are stressing about too many LTPs?! Most P1s have , or are close to, LTG. If someone is doing sufficient flying this year to be P1, they'll probably do the same next year, unless they change jobs. Promos makes people feel valued and I can't see how it matters if a P1 re-qualifies in nine months or twelve.

ah but to me you've given EXACTLY the reason to NOT target P1's with SC offers!!

I agree, as you say that most P1's do it with a big spend on many flights as road warriors, most likely company paid (though there are several of us I know who are self funded, but that's not really reelevant other than possible motivation). So, if the customer makes P1 with a big spend, and QF value that spend(obviously!) then why make it easier for them to retain? I've written before that these sort of customers, bar a few outlier status chasers, are "rusted on" for one reason or another - corporate contracts, location dependent, whatever and most (not all, clearly) are going to probably keep their spend similar, or at least other factors will influence that. It's a lot of flying to get P1, even with DSC.. it's a #@)@#*)#@*load without DSC ( I have done it both ways so i feel qualified to comment ). And if they do the same next year as this (as you write) which is possible for most - then a bonus SC promo is worth nothing to QF - the spend will stay the same. If their job changes and travel not so much, or their personal situation (health, financial whatever) changes so they do not travel so much.. they fall to Platinum or lower and promos will kick back in.

I reckon it would be a very few number, BAR the status chasers and folks like me who would make an extra effort to a certain degree , at the P1 level who actually want to do extra flights just to get that status back.

Remember there's nothing BEYOND P1 for yearly status earn, and bonus SC's do not count for bonus reward levels like at 5k and 7k SC's and many P1's have lifetime sttaus, or soon would... so little incentive for a P1 interested in status to go further than requalify.. and most P1's I am certain do not care.. they fly enough as it is ...

And finally the other point is that say your P1 makes status early - 9 months instead of 12 as you say - probably giving QF far less yield (revenue) in the process with a promo, then (and remember, the people who actually care about this stuff, like AFF members) they are free to go elsewhere if they so wish and send their business to other airlines (though folks with spend at this level likely already do - as many I know are Plat or higher level in a number of programs).

BOTTOM LINE: The likely result for QF of giving a P1 DSC promos will result in either roughly same level of spend by those that don't care, or less spend by those that take advantage of it.. it's unlikely to result in HIGHER spend by any P1 member - which is what QF wants.

As for feeling wanted and valued - well this is why they have the (rare) event invites, Christmas bubbly, F lounge guest passes and so on.

my take.

 

[nutwood]

ah but to me you've given EXACTLY the reason to NOT target P1's with SC offers!!
my take.

Very fair comment and it just shows how subjective the debate is. From my perspective, the lack of offers makes it problematical that I'll reach P1 this year. This is not of any great concern as the benefits for a domestic flier are very limited. It does however free me up. I've realised the soft landing policy means I'll retain WP regardless of my flying this year, so I'm footloose and fancy free. Last year, at the equivalent time, I was locked into a whole bunch of Qantas DSC flights.
It's a valid point that re-qualifying at nine months frees up choices, but who can be bothered? I actually did the sums and if I'd immediately jumped ship when I hit 3600, I would have comfortably picked up VA Gold, possibly Platinum. It wasn't a priority to me, so I didn't bother. If P1 is not attainable this year, I might as well explore the options.

 

[RichardMEL]

Very fair comment and it just shows how subjective the debate is. From my perspective, the lack of offers makes it problematical that I'll reach P1 this year. This is not of any great concern as the benefits for a domestic flier are very limited. It does however free me up. I've realised the soft landing policy means I'll retain WP regardless of my flying this year, so I'm footloose and fancy free. Last year, at the equivalent time, I was locked into a whole bunch of Qantas DSC flights.
It's a valid point that re-qualifying at nine months frees up choices, but who can be bothered? I actually did the sums and if I'd immediately jumped ship when I hit 3600, I would have comfortably picked up VA Gold, possibly Platinum. It wasn't a priority to me, so I didn't bother. If P1 is not attainable this year, I might as well explore the options.

... and you've just made another point in favor of why QF does not see a need to target P1's with offers - "who can be bothered"?

I'd also note, an this is not intended as a personal comment in any way(because I am in a similar boat tbh) but the perspective you've given above is, I'd say, not the norm for the general P1 member - or at least who QF sees as the P1 member. And when I post these comments about why I reckon QF doesn't target SC offers I do try to look at it from the point of view of the company, rather than the customer (we want everything we can get out of them!! ). Those of us with the ability to make changes to our travel, or shop around, based on things like status accural, goals to accrue over multiple programs(perhaps) or even just to fly otherdifferent/better airlines and products... that's probably pretty much not the norrm of the usual QF corporate customer who P1 is designed for. The wheel heeled self funded pax are cream on the top for QF and they can come and go based on all kinds of things.. but P1 is really for your corporate high flyer with a big spend (but not their own) and almost certainly under a corporate travel policy and/or corporate discount program.. ie people whoose companies send them wherever, pay for it, but limit the choices of carriers.

Some years back I talked to a mate at a major US carrier working in the upper levels of management of that carrier with exposure to revenue management and loyalty. I asked about people doing mileage runs, status chasers and the like. They indicated tht while the carrier was aware of these kinds of people "making the most of the system" they were hardly a large slice of the spend and not a real focus for the carriers. I'm not saying that view still holds today or even applies to ALL loyalty programs but I reckon there's a fair amount of that general feeling out there still. While I absolutely agree that many in groups like AFF or flyertalk represent a fair amount of spend to those that have and retain substantial status with maybe multiple loyalty programs, they're still a reltive drop in the pond oveall (and some carriers may even be happier if some of them go elsewhere if they're chalking up status and the like far more cheaply than the road warriors paying full Y for those weekly business trips...)

 

[nutwood]

Interesting. I've only met a handful of P1's, but not one of them would fit your description. Possibly this is because I'm flying domestic, not international? Those I've met are very aware of SC's. I'm not really following the logic that excludes P1's from targeted offers and I'm endeavoring to view it from a Qantas perspective. If your corporate high flyer is romping in the SC's anyway, a bonus offer won't cost Qantas anything, apart from possible LTP. Given the short window of opportunity, it's unlikely that a corporate travel arranger would book a whole bunch of flights anyway.
On the other hand, for those of us who travel for business, but make our own choices, bonus SC offers are as relevant for a P1 as a SG. The big difference is, if a P1 takes their business elsewhere, there goes $40k + of business. I totally agree that for the airlines, those of us who approach status seriously, are not their principle concern, however by targeting offers, they are making it about the individual. My feeling is that they have possibly got a few more P1's than they expected and are not going to provide any assistance for those on the borderline to re-qualify. I question whether this makes solid economic sense? My feeling is that it's better to keep your high earning pax in the P1 fold, rather than have them drift off. A bottle of bubbly and few upgrades is not an expensive retainer!

 

[woodborer]

On the other hand, for those of us who travel for business, but make our own choices, bonus SC offers are as relevant for a P1 as a SG. The big difference is, if a P1 takes their business elsewhere, there goes $40k + of business.

But how many corporate types actually have the freedom to take their business elsewhere? Lost of them have their airline chosen for them.

 

[RichardMEL]

no worries with your view

For me, again when I view it from their point of view I do not see how a bonus SC promo, which is designed to INCREASE demand and revenue will work with either sort of P1 member described.

Either
1. They won't change their spending much because they already earn enough with their spend as is
2. POTENTIALLY they spend less to get the status with bonus SC offers - it's UNLIKELY anyone following along will spend MORE than current if they track SC's and want that status; either they'll fly what they were always going to fly and get the status earlier or they'll get the status and potentially go elsewhere (ie VA on domestic)
3. With the example of a business passenger who makes ther own purchasing choices then sure bonus SC promos are important for sure.. but if you are that pax, and can earn the status cheaper and easier (because of the promos) then I still don't see how you'll generate MORE income for QF as opposed to not having the bonus promos. If you stick with P! for all spend having gotten or retained the status via bonus promos you're still probably only going to generate the same, and maybe a bit less(due to the status would be earned by spending less in the first place) money. And if you get the status, then basically take your spend to other airlines, even if they are OW airlines, QF get less revenue out of you.

And if you're a P1, get no offers an spit the dummy and take all your business elsewhere then sure that's a risk QF takes, but they are gaming on the "rusted on" factor no doubt.. and if you soft land to WP and then lower, hey promos kick back in and you can have another shot. Either way QF may wind up getting more from you a bit down thr track but chances are(to them) you'll probably still give them at least SOME revenue as WP is still fairly valuable.

I'm still not sure I can see a case where a bonus SC offer would cause a P1 member to give MORE revenue to QF over and above the current spend because there's little inducement to do IMO.

 

[nutwood]

All valid points, but much of your logic could equally be applied to WP. Unless you're WP and almost to P1, you are not going to increase your spend you get P1. The gap is too great to be made up with a couple of status runs. Obviously, if you're chasing LTG, bonus offers are attractive, but the same could be said for P1.
With regard to a P1 spending extra because of an offer, that's very true, but I'm looking at the other side of the coin, where they spend a lot less. In your given scenarios, 1. is a given, 2 & 3. I can't see them spending less to get P1, except, of course, if they were doing status runs to get there. With regard to going elsewhere, if they get status early, why would they bother? I was in that exact position a few months ago and I didn't bother. The reason for not bothering is there seems little point. Three months out from the end of my year. Consider if I'd chased VA status. I'd have been starting at the bottom of the ladder. Even if I rapidly clawed my way up the ladder, what then? October comes, my QF score resets and I have to get busy re-qualifying for P1. The exception to this approach would be if I can see that there's no way I'll make P1, as per no targeted offers. It's not a dummy spit, simply a pragmatic decision. There's a lot of flying between WP and P1. The only other goal is at 2400 SC's, if P1 can't be reached.
My current position is that I'm going to give it a few months. I'm not quite to LTG. Once we're into the new year, I'll have clearer idea of whether I'm likely to retain P1. If not, I'll get busy on VA. I'm likely to have a couple of international trips with the family coming up early 2021, and it'd make sense to have a foot in both camps.

 

[RichardMEL]

But that's exactly my point. if they are a status runner P1 then they spend less to get P1. No gain to QF (loss). If they are a usual P1 and get there sooner, it's unlikely they will spend any more than before - no gain to QF - and it's possible they will spend less by taking business elsewhere(if able) once P1 attained or renewed - again no gain to QF.

And the points can apply to WP with the exception that there IS still a status level to aspire towards and while most of us who have either been there and know it's value, or know the amount of spend required, it is a very valid apsirational goal for QF to market the SC offers.. which they can't do for P1, since there's nothing extra they can offer as a goal with the offer.. and it MAY just push those WP pax to spend a little more... (gain to QF) but is unlikely to result in less spend but probably about the same.. so it's no real loss for QF to provide the offers to WP members since they are already paying for those benefits so it's only potentially gains for QF by offerint bonus SC offers (which is different to P1).

IMO obviously.