QF Dreamliners in Y - what are people's experiences?

[moa999]

I'm stunned Qantas are ordering more 787s in this configuration.

Along with every other new 787 operator - both full service and LCC.
Simply put most Passengers won't pay 15% more in fares for 2-4-2, they'll take another airline.

 

[JohnK]

Along with every other new 787 operator - both full service and LCC.
Simply put most Passengers won't pay 15% more in fares for 2-4-2, they'll take another airline.

If offered the choice of 787 with 2-4-2 or 787 with 3-3-3 and the difference was only 15% then that's an easy choice.

And for the record Qantas is supposed to be a premium airline and should be offering a premium product even in economy.

 

[downgraded]

Along with every other new 787 operator - both full service and LCC.
Simply put most Passengers won't pay 15% more in fares for 2-4-2, they'll take another airline.

The problem is that assumption is largely/completely untested. Airlines try to charge a premium without offering that better Y experience so they don't really know if the better hard product, properly marketed would attract the premium. As airlines run a mixed fleet they are not going to position one Y product as worth a premium as they have to undermine the rest of their fleet to do that.
Personally, I'd readily pay a premium for an appropriately differentiated Y product, but so far QF hasn't presented such an offering.

 

[moa999]

I agree there might be a space for say a small y+ cabin (albeit I'd expect the premium might be more like 20-30%) as the airlines won't want to draw pax down from the Premium Y cabin (which I believe on $/m² is probably above Business.

But it's even more fleet complexity, and the QF 787 already has a very low number of Y seats

 

[downgraded]

I agree there might be a space for say a small y+ cabin (albeit I'd expect the premium might be more like 20-30%) as the airlines won't want to draw pax down from the Premium Y cabin (which I believe on $/m² is probably above Business.

But it's even more fleet complexity, and the QF 787 already has a very low number of Y seats

But as had been pointed out already by others, the typical load factor suggests they could offer a better product with no loss of pax numbers.

 

[Princess Fiona]

Flew LAX-BNE in Y on 787 at the end of last month. It was perfectly fine, no issues with seat width for me. I was in 40D, two of my daughters in E and F.
The arm rest goes up between D/E (fixed between E/F) so it’s worth trying to snag this pair for two people.
Obviously I’d rather be at the pointy end but for the price I thought this wasn’t too shabby.

 

[downgraded]

but for the price

Exactly.

 

[Scarlett]

The problem is that assumption is largely/completely untested. Airlines try to charge a premium without offering that better Y experience so they don't really know if the better hard product, properly marketed would attract the premium. As airlines run a mixed fleet they are not going to position one Y product as worth a premium as they have to undermine the rest of their fleet to do that.
Personally, I'd readily pay a premium for an appropriately differentiated Y product, but so far QF hasn't presented such an offering.

Short version: For the most part, the Y seats on the QF B787 suck. But nothing will be changing no matter how much a small segment of the population complains.

Longer version: Most airlines have done exactly as you suggest: Y+ (or W if you prefer).

Are you perhaps saying though that the price point currently charged for Y+ is too great a jump from the regular sardine can Y? So potentially you're not seeing that as the answer to what you're after with the better Y product?

Airlines operate in very thin markets and know EXACTLY what people will and won't pay for. As first generation Y+ cabins or aircraft with them are coming up for renewal/refurbishment, they're generally being expanded. I'd suggest that the initial foray by most airlines into the Y+ market was with cabins perhaps a little too small, and that many are expanding the size of the them as they get the better data on what their markets will bear. They are, in effect, coming around to your way of thinking. But, they're going to extract as much profit from that change and if the market continues to pay for the Y+ cabin in Australia at double the cost of the regular Y cabin: well that's the cost of that extra space and comfort.

How much is Main Cabin Extra on AA above standard Y? I doubt QF would go down that path as they already let you pay extra to choose seats or other customisable elements of the flight and that's far cheaper than further modifying the hard product.

Y exists in the shape it currently does because the market will bear it and all the complaints in the world won't change that. Many people hate Ryan Air and Jetstar, yet...

...and thus threads like these go.

 

[mrsterryn]

Flew LAX-BNE in Y on 787 at the end of last month. It was perfectly fine, no issues with seat width for me. I was in 40D, two of my daughters in E and F.
The arm rest goes up between D/E (fixed between E/F) so it’s worth trying to snag this pair for two people.

How far up did the armrest go ?
I do have difficulties in finding up which planes have movable armrests

 

[downgraded]

Short version: For the most part, the Y seats on the QF B787 suck. But nothing will be changing no matter how much a small segment of the population complains.

Longer version: Most airlines have done exactly as you suggest: Y+ (or W if you prefer).

Are you perhaps saying though that the price point currently charged for Y+ is too great a jump from the regular sardine can Y? So potentially you're not seeing that as the answer to what you're after with the better Y product?

Airlines operate in very thin markets and know EXACTLY what people will and won't pay for. As first generation Y+ cabins or aircraft with them are coming up for renewal/refurbishment, they're generally being expanded. I'd suggest that the initial foray by most airlines into the Y+ market was with cabins perhaps a little too small, and that many are expanding the size of the them as they get the better data on what their markets will bear. They are, in effect, coming around to your way of thinking. But, they're going to extract as much profit from that change and if the market continues to pay for the Y+ cabin in Australia at double the cost of the regular Y cabin: well that's the cost of that extra space and comfort.

How much is Main Cabin Extra on AA above standard Y? I doubt QF would go down that path as they already let you pay extra to choose seats or other customisable elements of the flight and that's far cheaper than further modifying the hard product.

Y exists in the shape it currently does because the market will bear it and all the complaints in the world won't change that. Many people hate Ryan Air and Jetstar, yet...

...and thus threads like these go.

Agree entirely - except that the 3x QF ask is very different to the more reasonable 2x you mention.

With upgrades to the gate they will soon be able to lock most pax out of J upgrades as well with larger PE cabins.

And hey, J will start shrinking, PE growing and we're back to recliners as the new J and J suites the new first.

The overall experience will be the worst it has been for a while, alas the golden era of flight is over.

 

[downgraded]

How far up did the armrest go ?
I do have difficulties in finding up which planes have movable armrests

On the 787 they go all the way up to be between the 2 seats so as to be unobtrusive. QF even tout this as giving you more room

 

[mrsterryn]

On the 787 they go all the way up to be between the 2 seats so as to be unobtrusive. QF even tout this as giving you more room

Sounds like the go for husband and I.
I am fat he is not

 

[Lynda2475]

I didnt find the Y seat from LHR-PER too bad, the IFE screen was definiately better than the A380. I was on the aisle and didnt try to sleep.

The bigger false claim I found was re the humidty/air pressure - my eyes have never been so dry as on that flight.

Id definately do LHR-PER again as the departure and arrival times are great coming home. Going to LHR may as well go via SIN as both flight arrive at equally coughpy early morning times.

 

[JohnK]

Sounds like the go for husband and I.
I am fat he is not

Apologies for repeating myself. It's doesn't matter much if you're fat or not.
It basically comes down to shoulder width and my wife struggled sitting next to me.

If the people I see out on the street are indicative of the people flying then most would/should struggle in these economy seats but that doesn't appear to be the case judging by the number of people raving on about the economy experience on the 787.

Does shoulder room not matter to people?

 

[defurax]

Apologies for repeating myself. It's doesn't matter much if you're fat or not.
It basically comes down to shoulder width and my wife struggled sitting next to me.

If the people I see out on the street are indicative of the people flying then most would/should struggle in these economy seats but that doesn't appear to be the case judging by the number of people raving on about the economy experience on the 787.

Does shoulder room not matter to people?

My only experience in Y on a 787 was with BA and I agree with you the shoulder room is ridiculous. I have to say I've never flown in a 10-abreast 777 config, so can't say if 787 is worst.
The way I see it I actively avoid the 787 while QF still have a fleet of 332, 333 and 380. I'm also amazed people don't seem to notice the difference in shoulder room between 380 and 787. Maybe too many people here fly with family and don't mind the squeeze. Maybe QF should allow people to pay to sit next to a kid

 

[NickCorr]

And maybe some of us also prioritise personal legroom over shared shoulder room?
Do the window seats offer a bit more wriggle room in the shoulder region, or does the curvature rule that out?
Did a 9-abreast ANA 777 many years ago with the 5 across the middle, that was interesting in the shoulder area... Added fun was that no one under 190cm could access the lockers as the centre aisle seats were jutting out so far into the "normal" aisle.

 

[Princess Fiona]

How far up did the armrest go ?
I do have difficulties in finding up which planes have movable armrests

Fully up in between the seat backs, even in recline position. It was fab

 

[DC3]

Flew LAX-BNE in Y on 787 at the end of last month. It was perfectly fine, no issues with seat width for me. I was in 40D, two of my daughters in E and F ...

I guess it may depend on the size of the travellers on either side. If rather petite, then that would benefit a middle-seat passenger. I’m toying with the idea of flying in Y (shudder), long haul, on the QF 787 at some point. However, as this would be solo, the issue may be with adjacent pax. Probably aisle to avoid being sandwiched.

 

[Princess Fiona]

I guess it may depend on the size of the travellers on either side. If rather petite, then that would benefit a middle-seat passenger. I’m toying with the idea of flying in Y (shudder), long haul, on the QF 787 at some point. However, as this would be solo, the issue may be with adjacent pax. Probably aisle to avoid being sandwiched.

I’m 168cm and 60kg, my daughters are taller but slightly built. The extra leg room in the bulkhead was what made the flight way more comfortable. I think those who are heavier built would find the seats narrow but for us there was plenty of room.

 

[Quickstatus]

Personally, I'd readily pay a premium for an appropriately differentiated Y product, but so far QF hasn't presented such an offering.

Sounds like the premium economy product