QF/SAA codeshares to go - PER to lose again?

[JohnM]

From Business Spectator AM today:

Meanwhile, The Australian reports Qantas is mulling the cessation of its longstanding codeshare arrangement with South African Airways as the burden of regulatory hurdles continues to weigh.
According to the newspaper, the national carrier still has a year to run on the current deal, but has reportedly already commenced sourcing alternative arrangements so as not to disrupt customers looking to book flights a year in advance.

The QF codeshare on the SAA PER-JNB flight is handy for access to southern Africa from PER. Further diminution of QFi services from PER if it happens.

Anyone know what the 'regulatory hurdles' means in this case?

 

[mannej]

Not knowing too much detail about the regulatory issues, I am sure there are previous threads on here regarding the issues.

 

[Danger]

I wonder what possible alternative arrangements there could possibly be.

 

[Isochronous]

EK via DXB

Or maybe we could have actual QF metal PER-JNB. But I thought JNB loads were a problem!

 

[markis10]

Not knowing too much detail about the regulatory issues, I am sure there are previous threads on here regarding the issues.

There are issues regarding lack of competition:

http://www.australianfrequentflyer....r-program/qf-saa-jnb-codeshare-end-43287.html

 

[Timba-Jet]

PER-xSYD-JNB lol

On the bright side, it's all QF metal and more QFF points.

 

[Mattg]

QF63/64 operating via PER 3x weekly would make sense.

 

[Daver6]

Two thoughts come to mind:

a) The SYD <-> JNB makes a stop in PER to pick up/drop off pax. Would add another domestic flight with F lounge benefits in SYD too.
b) Can a twin engine aircraft make it between PER <-> JNB without adding any (too much) flying time due to restrictions?

 

[Programme]

b) Can a twin engine aircraft make it between PER <-> JNB without adding any (too much) flying time due to restrictions?

The darker shaded areas are >180min away from the closest diversion airport.

Great circle route is not possible, but it is nowhere near as bad as the ill-fated Virgin MEL-JNB 777 route.

 

[DrA]

EK via DXB

Or maybe we could have actual QF metal PER-JNB. But I thought JNB loads were a problem!

Loads are actually an issue on this route? I'm on the PER-JNB flights probably 4-5 times a year for the last 4 years and it's always been packed.

I certainly wouldn't mind flying on QF metal though

 

[AstroDamo]

QF63/64 operating via PER 3x weekly would make sense.

Considering how far to the South the SYD-JNB flight goes wouldn't this be a major diversion and cause a large increase to flight time? Also I thought loads on 63/64 were good?

As for PER-JNB I've used the codeshare flight and been upgraded from economy to business (assuming because of a full economy cabin)

 

[serfty]

1700 more miles.

That's only a 5% increase in distance ( 6863 mi v 7214 mi).

 

[markis10]

1700 more miles.

That's only a 5% increase in distance ( 6863 mi v 7214 mi).

Its only 350 miles ??? Often the jetstream will take them close to PER anyway ie Qantas (QF) #63

 

[serfty]

Its only 350 miles ??? Often the jetstream will take them close to PER anyway ie Qantas (QF) #63

That'll teach me to post from a small device in a lurching tram.

the 5% is correct

... and other times closer to the pole:

The direct route HKG-JFK is mainly overland.

SYD-JNB often flys over or very close to parts of Antarctica.

Here's an Aug '05 image from a Trip Report/Blog by Gardyloo of FT:

 

[Mattg]

That'll teach me to post from a small device in a lurching tram.

the 5% is correct

... and other times closer to the pole:

I think it's fair to say that while the variation will depend on the planned routing based on the wind etc. the average deviation would probably be around 5%, sometimes more but sometimes less.

For this small increase, it would add a 747 flight 3x weekly SYD-PER-SYD and give QF access to the PER-JNB market if it was no longer able to codeshare with SAA. That's why IMHO it would be a good idea.

 

[markis10]

I think it's fair to say that while the variation will depend on the planned routing based on the wind etc. the average deviation would probably be around 5%, sometimes more but sometimes less.

For this small increase, it would add a 747 flight 3x weekly SYD-PER-SYD and give QF access to the PER-JNB market if it was no longer able to codeshare with SAA. That's why IMHO it would be a good idea.

Good idea but in the bucket of been there done that, until 2000 thats exactly what QF used to do:

New Qantas services reduce flying time between Sydney and Johannesburg - FlyerTalk Forums

 

[Isochronous]

Good idea but in the bucket of been there done that, until 2000 thats exactly what QF used to do:

New Qantas services reduce flying time between Sydney and Johannesburg - FlyerTalk Forums

From an early post on page 1 of that thread:

Actually, that leaves PER only with SIN (19x Weekly - with 7 carrying on to HKG), NRT (3x) CGK (4x?) and DPS (3x?) as our only international QF segments. grrrr.....

Still I suppose its not too bad.

That would be pretty awesome out of PER today - especially a QF service flying SIN-HKG!

 

[Mattg]

Good idea but in the bucket of been there done that, until 2000 thats exactly what QF used to do:

New Qantas services reduce flying time between Sydney and Johannesburg - FlyerTalk Forums

True, but according to this post the change was originally made due to the new codeshare agreement. Times change, and if they were no longer allowed to codeshare with SAA they would need to reassess.

Interesting that even the posters on that thread 13 years ago were questioning the benefits of the codeshare agreement for competitiion!

 

[The Rok]

Perth has a HUGE quantity of South Africans living here. And they can be summed up in 2 ways....

1: They are not notorious for paying more money when there are cheaper alternatives!

2: They are more loyal to SAA than to Qantas.

So while a SYD-PER-JNB flight might suit a handful of folks who want to pay more money to travel a longer routing and transit a pain in the cough Sydney airport, it would rule out the vast majority who would pay less to travel direct on SAA for less!

Let's face it, how often is Qantas the cheaper alternative.

 

[JohnPhelan]

QF63/64 operating via PER 3x weekly would make sense.

Not if you're coming from the east coast!