QF Survey of new WP/P1 / post LTG benefits

[Kiwi_Flyer]

I’ll take NZ’s Banked Year which is offered once at 2400 SC’s and their new status head start and status boost benefit. Wouldn’t be too hard for QF to do something similar.

But NZ doesn't have any lifetime benefit. The banked year year, rollover SPs, status boost and status head start are all softer benefits than having a lifetime benefit.

 

[RichardMEL]

[ devil's advocate pointy hat on ]

A lot of us are thinking about benefits provided and recognition for length of membership, and number of years of elite status (some of QF's proposals address this to an extent). Let's have our LTP or OWE after say 20y of WP or equivalent. All reasonable from our point of view.

If I'm QF though and I am looking to keep the $$$ flowing while reducing cost... might some concern be that I might wind up with a lop sided situation - long term, previously high value flyers, probably points rich may end up costing me a lot more through flying partners and the like using status benefits(which I pay for) but generating little extra yield or ongoing revenue? After all the name of their game is to keep sucking money out of us, not the other way around

At least if folks go get BA GGL(or whatever other programs) and fly on status - if they use the QF F lounge at SYD while flying with points on CX at least BA pays for that if the pax is in there on status - as addressed earlier in this thread... so I, as QF, are still making some money out of that.

Maybe we're talking about a small number (relatively) of folks who actually have >25k LTSC and would maybe an issue for the airline in the grand scheme of things, but if it was so small then why even seem to address this at all? It seems clear QF has put this stuff out there because of a lot of backlash or more likely they've seen a real turn away and equated that to post LTP announcement, people with say 20k-40k of LTSC in the bankrealising they will NEVER get there so just go elsewhere and they're reacting.. so it must be fairly significant. Also probably those customers who generate tens of thousands of LTSC have represented a lot of revenue in the past, and you obviously don't want to let that go if there's a chance you can keep it.

I just wonder if QF see a dilemma here in terms of what they are willing to give out vs what they get back.

 

[wandering_fred]

I just wonder if QF see a dilemma here in terms of what they are willing to give out vs what they get back.

Which is why I suggested that "life time holders" simply get to earn the NEXT level at the renewal amount rather than the 600 SC reduction others have suggested.
As well a modest increase in the number of QF group flights to "offset" the life time reduction ensures that continued flying is with QF rather almost all with partners.

Note: I have accepted I will never earn life time status at a level with lounge access. Maybe QFF LTS next year.

(I hope) I keep wandering
Fred

 

[Tropic]

Which is why I suggested that "life time holders" simply get to earn the NEXT level at the renewal amount rather than the 600 SC reduction others have suggested.
As well a modest increase in the number of QF group flights to "offset" the life time reduction ensures that continued flying is with QF rather almost all with partners.

Note: I have accepted I will never earn life time status at a level with lounge access. Maybe QFF LTS next year.

(I hope) I keep wandering
Fred

QF need to balance providing costly additional incentives to LTG plus members (many of whom got there through corporate/govt funded travel and are now enjoying the benefits with other OW premium carriers ) without upsetting those aspirational QF status earners still on the treadmill... including those post retirement and other self funded flyers, to whom LTP is just a three letter acronym...

 

[cchampion]

Why make it so complicated! Just reward reasonable loyalty. After more than 15 years of continuous WP (must be approaching 20 years) and 22k+ SC's, I have absolutely no incentive to aim higher or book QF. I have QF LTG to fall back on and now easily earn Virgin Platinum. The QF Lifetime WP, or these new complicated arrangements, just confuse and disenchant previously loyal customers. Surely 15-20 years of loyalty is worth more!

 

[RichardMEL]

What QF "needs" is for VA to start recognising LT earn ......

Let's give QF some credit for at least exploring options given that EVERYONE agrees the LTP level is ridiculous (and even QF admitted nly several hundred currently are there). Just have to wait and see if any of this actually leads to something concrete for thee LTG+ members.

 

[Tropic]

What if having listened to the concerns of its "loyal" post LTG member base, QF decides to "enhance" the program too....oh wait.

 

[jase05]

What QF "needs" is for VA to start recognising LT earn ......

Amen to that!
Whilst I much prefer to fly with VA atleast QF gives you something to aim for even if it is unrealistic for most people to attain LTP.

 

[NIIB]

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If Qantas is concerned about losing valued and loyal FF members it should stop trying to come up with one hundred ways to make it look like they are offering value to their FF customers via their points program and keep it very simple: if you have points to spend, you should be able to use them when you need to and on flights that you actually want.

What is causing customers to walk away from the Qantas FF program is that people accrue hundreds of thousands of points out of loyalty to the brand and then get tied up in knots trying to find a flight that they can actually spend them on. I am sick of calling up Qantas to request flights as a Platinum member - and being told that I cannot get a seat due to "load" or "we have to have a certain sale class available". What ends up happening is that I start with one trip in mind and, if I am lucky, end up with flights for entirely different dates to a completely different destination.

I am tired of all the announcements regarding an improved program - eg. the recent announcement that millions more seats are being made available. As far as I can tell, these seats are on routes nobody wants to travel on and involve airlines which are second or third tier. This last round of "improvements" to the program has taken it to another level where they have even removed the concept of a set date when seats "come on". It is now a complete lottery where nobody knows when seats will come on, including the Qantas Premium Desk and they tell me I should just "keep trying". I am not sure I know anybody who has the time to call Qantas every day to see if seats become available.

I have been a Platinum member for many years but Qantas has made me feel that my loyalty means nothing. Just thinking about calling the Premium Desk to find FF seats terrifies me because I know it will be a 1 hour phone call with a guaranteed outcome of no seats available to anywhere I want to go at the time I am able to fly (school holidays) or indeed at any other time.

For the first time ever I am looking at dumping my status and just buying seats on other carriers whose loyalty programs seem so much easier to negotiate. Qantas has gone so far away from its core business and core customers that they seem to have forgotten that they are an airline; not a health insurance company; a wine merchant or a retailer of electrical goods.

 

[zenyattamondatta]

I am tired of all the announcements regarding an improved program - eg. the recent announcement that millions more seats are being made available. As far as I can tell, these seats are on routes nobody wants to travel on and involve airlines which are second or third tier.

You're wrong about the routes, given the recent releases (for example) of flights to the US.

But yeah, they are on Qantas, so "second or third tier".

 

[tyrolean]

I reached LTG a few years ago. This year I dropped from many years of WP to LTG. QF did not ask me why, I got no offer to extend my WP. The reason is that I moved most of my business from Oneworld to Star Alliance. I live in a big Star-Alliance Stronghold, where it is very hard to fly other carriers except Lufthansa and their Partners - I did that for many years. Yes I did not expect much but it was a bit of a farewell from QF and Oneworld.

Lufthansa on the other hand is now introducing their Lifetime Status. I will reach LTS next year and LTG in the near future (4-5 years of traveling). So building up a Lifetime Status in two alliances seems the best thing to do.

I thought about switching to BA to earn my Emerald status there, but it seems quite a long road to go there. Especially the Brexit could mess up a few traffic rights in Europe and change quite some things for me. So I wont't switch to BA or IB until everything is clear.

The extra perks for the extra SCs look nice, but you really have to look close to it if it is worth hunting for them. The only chance I would shift again more business to QF or Oneworld would be a Lifetime Emerald in reach. Otherwise I prefer to fly Star-Alliance and enjoy my LTG on my last few Oneworld flights. When you fly with airlines without F-Class there is only few difference between Emerald and Saphire.

 

[Vic]

(many of whom got there through corporate/govt funded travel and are now enjoying the benefits with other OW premium carriers )

Are corporate dollars less profitable to Qantas? Cash is cash, why would qantas care where it comes from?

 

[VPS]

Interesting thread and also interesting we have a few newcomers commenting on it

 

[RichardMEL]

Are corporate dollars less profitable to Qantas? Cash is cash, why would qantas care where it comes from?

In a way QF knows more about the folks on corporate contracts/discounts etc. They can also assume that while that person is working for that employer they're going to be held to that contract (specially if it's a corporate contract for all travel spend from a company) and that gives them a lot of additional data.

We know too that QF care if there's govt spend involved - both for the legislation and the like - but also because govt spend is a different category all together.

OTOH QF know a lot less about someone like me who is self funded and while they have a heck of data on me from the various tie is I am opted in to for data mining.. I mean QFF (eg: woolies, CC etc) they can be far less certain of what I may do next with only my history as guide.

But absolutely at the end of the day a buck is a buck and certainly the bean counters do not care so much where the revenue comes from, just the yield they are making from it.

 

[Tropic]

QF are not agnostic when it comes to revenue. They absolutely know and care where every buck dropping into the revenue bucket comes from, and the past, present and potential future "loyalty" of every post LTG QFF member, whether they amassed their SC fortunes through self funded or corporate/government contract, and the real loyalty challenge, how to incentivise those post LTG members to spend their own bucks post retirement/job change when they can get way better value elsewhere. (btw, everyone was a AFF newcomer once...)

 

[VPS]

QF are not agnostic when it comes to revenue. They absolutely know and care where every buck dropping into the revenue bucket comes from, and the past, present and potential future "loyalty" of every post LTG QFF member, whether they amassed their SC fortunes through self funded or corporate/government contract, and the real loyalty challenge, how to incentivise those post LTG members to spend their own bucks post retirement/job change when they can get way better value elsewhere. (btw, everyone was a AFF newcomer once...)

I realise everyone is new and has to start somewhere but often (and not always) the first few posts are looking for some information). I was just surprised this thread had brought a few people out of the woodwork.

 

[RichardMEL]

It would be interesting to know or have an idea of how they view members whoose "loyalty" is governed by corporate contracts/discounts - more or less enforced by corporate travel policy vs self funded folks who I reckon represent 100% discretionary spend in respect of where they CHOOSE to put their travel spend. Of course if you reside in some QF heavy or dominant place, or say a regional location that only has QF service then you're rather captive, but say I am in MEL and I am self funded, is the spend choice I make to go with QF vs VA, SQ or whoever of more or less importance?

And would such customers who can chose for every trip their spend (be it based on BFOD or any of a number of other factors) be then targeted more to try to retain vs those who have a lot less say over the travel spend.

In other words QF throw me some DSC? That would be nice

 

[Tropic]

I realise everyone is new and has to start somewhere but often (and not always) the first few posts are looking for some information). I was just surprised this thread had brought a few people out of the woodwork.

Certainly an issue of interest for many AFF members I think

 

[Rangalad]

It would be interesting to know or have an idea of how they view members whoose "loyalty" is governed by corporate contracts/discounts - more or less enforced by corporate travel policy vs self funded folks who I reckon represent 100% discretionary spend in respect of where they CHOOSE to put their travel spend. Of course if you reside in some QF heavy or dominant place, or say a regional location that only has QF service then you're rather captive, but say I am in MEL and I am self funded, is the spend choice I make to go with QF vs VA, SQ or whoever of more or less importance?

And would such customers who can chose for every trip their spend (be it based on BFOD or any of a number of other factors) be then targeted more to try to retain vs those who have a lot less say over the travel spend.

In other words QF throw me some DSC? That would be nice

A number of my clients have Qantas corporate discounts. It is often difficult to get the necessary approval to travel on other airlines. Others apply the 'best logical fare of the day' principle. This often leads to travel on VA.