QF to Confirm Points Upgrade Requests as late as at the gate when boarding

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Believe it or not i'm not sure an at-gate upgrade would be as pleasant as it sounds to me. Particularly as id' be all geared up to do the flight in Y as im queing up!

There is a risk that some people will be annoyed - it will be a very firstworldproblem "Oh woe is me my upgrade came through and I wasn't prepared for it..."

In the main though I think most people will like this - though I do concede that paying the same price in points for potentially less benefit might not go down well. Given that it also targets premium flyers I expect that you wont miss out on too much in the way of benefits - you an check in in the premium lines and use the lounge anyway...
 
Whilst this will make some customers happier, with more upgrades getting processed, in reality it appear to really be all about QF maximising their return. Assuming that they really want to process upgrades (and redeem the points) rather than fly with the seat empty (i.e. once there is no chance of selling the seat, as boarding is underway, the best extra revenue available for the seat is the upgrade points, and that revenue exceeds the marginal cost of the extra catering), then this gives them much more opportunity. Why Op Up a passenger for nothing, if they can change their systems, and move a different PAX who will give them points in return?

Assuming that quite a number of upgrade requests are not fulfilled (not really an assumption, I think it is fairly obvious that this is the case), then this is likely to reduce the Op Up incidence for higher status pax. Where last minute changes are required (missed connections, passengers to be moved to alternate flights) that need additional seats in a lower class, the current state would be to Op Up someone (as all the points upgrade processing would have completed) - now they will be able to go back to the upgrade requests, and clear another one, and claim the points. Pure win for QF in reducing outstanding points liability.

If you have placed an upgrade request, checked in to Y, have forgone the lounge (as you don't have status), are steeled for the whY experience, and don't want to "waste" your points without obtaining the full benefit of the class of travel (lounge access, baggage allowance etc.), then you should be able to cancel your upgrade request at that point. Should solve the problem of being advised at the gate of an upgrade that you don't want anymore (and you will thereby improve the chances of those who want the seat an onboard service).

As an aside (possibly slightly OT), does anyone know how the Class of Travel UK departure tax works for Op Ups (and points upgrades like this). Obviously the passenger doesn't get slugged, but does the airline have to cough up based on where the passenger sits (based on manifest perhaps)? Presumably an on-board move of a passenger up a class which is not reflected in the paperwork is beyond the grab of the UK tax man, but what about the pre-departure upgrades? Would there perhaps be an incentive for the airlines to upgrade "after the gate" (board in Y, but have an instruction list to crew - Pax in Y seat 87B, move to J seat 14F after doors closed), to reduce tax payments?
 
and I thought from the thread title, the QF was going to upgrade the departure gates to fix up priority boarding ....:)
 
Whilst this will make some customers happier, with more upgrades getting processed, in reality it appear to really be all about QF maximising their return. Assuming that they really want to process upgrades (and redeem the points) rather than fly with the seat empty (i.e. once there is no chance of selling the seat, as boarding is underway, the best extra revenue available for the seat is the upgrade points, and that revenue exceeds the marginal cost of the extra catering), then this gives them much more opportunity. Why Op Up a passenger for nothing, if they can change their systems, and move a different PAX who will give them points in return?

Assuming that quite a number of upgrade requests are not fulfilled (not really an assumption, I think it is fairly obvious that this is the case), then this is likely to reduce the Op Up incidence for higher status pax. Where last minute changes are required (missed connections, passengers to be moved to alternate flights) that need additional seats in a lower class, the current state would be to Op Up someone (as all the points upgrade processing would have completed) - now they will be able to go back to the upgrade requests, and clear another one, and claim the points. Pure win for QF in reducing outstanding points liability.

If you have placed an upgrade request, checked in to Y, have forgone the lounge (as you don't have status), are steeled for the whY experience, and don't want to "waste" your points without obtaining the full benefit of the class of travel (lounge access, baggage allowance etc.), then you should be able to cancel your upgrade request at that point. Should solve the problem of being advised at the gate of an upgrade that you don't want anymore (and you will thereby improve the chances of those who want the seat an onboard service).

As an aside (possibly slightly OT), does anyone know how the Class of Travel UK departure tax works for Op Ups (and points upgrades like this). Obviously the passenger doesn't get slugged, but does the airline have to cough up based on where the passenger sits (based on manifest perhaps)? Presumably an on-board move of a passenger up a class which is not reflected in the paperwork is beyond the grab of the UK tax man, but what about the pre-departure upgrades? Would there perhaps be an incentive for the airlines to upgrade "after the gate" (board in Y, but have an instruction list to crew - Pax in Y seat 87B, move to J seat 14F after doors closed), to reduce tax payments?

Yeah, I'm with you on this. I would much rather be notified the day before that my request for an upgrade on points had been approved than at the gate. You've wasted a good part of the upgrade if you were unaware of it until your ticket is scanned in the (Y) queue (luggage (weight and priority tag), priority check-in, lounge access, priority boarding etc).
 
What would happen with catering?

I've on one or two occasion managed a points upgrade and been told that catering is not assured (even had it on the boarding pass). So does this new enhancement guarantee catering?
 
Again look at who they are targetting:

"to its most frequent flyers"

Later in the article it also refers to this for P1s.

If it only targets CL/P1/WP then those people will already have checked in at the F counter, had express immigration, have higher baggage allowances and used the F lounge. They wont be missing out on anything...
 
Again look at who they are targetting:

"to its most frequent flyers"

Later in the article it also refers to this for P1s.

If it only targets CL/P1/WP then those people will already have checked in at the F counter, had express immigration, have higher baggage allowances and used the F lounge. They wont be missing out on anything...


Do CL/WP1/WPs get the same allowance irrespective of class of travel?
 
Aha, I missed the 2 May Change:

[TABLE="class: basic"]
[TR="class: alt"]
[TD]Platinum Frequent Flyers[/TD]
[TD]Economy/Premium Economy
For tickets issued before 2 May 2012:

3 pieces (maximum 23kg (50lb) per piece)
For tickets issued on or after 2 May 2012:
3 pieces (maximum 32kg (70lb) per piece)
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Yes:
3 pieces (maximum 32kg (70lb) per piece) regardless of travel class
 
If it only targets CL/P1/WP then those people will already have checked in at the F counter, had express immigration, have higher baggage allowances and used the F lounge. They wont be missing out on anything...

Exactly, but paying for it with QFF points. Qantas quickly becoming a "bank" that churns points and skimming its percentage off the top. I'm sure they make a higher yield through their QFF program than with that costly, and painful thing called an airline.

On another note, consider the following scenario:
1) Appply for upgrade
2) Upgrade doesn't get granted
3) You check in thinking those points have not been withdrawn from your QFF account
4) You get buzzed at the gate.

At whch point do the points get deducted, returned then deducted again? Somewhere in the middle is the possibility of those points being "spent" on other things. Anyone go award shopping while in the lounge?
 
Exactly, but paying for it with QFF points. Qantas quickly becoming a "bank" that churns points and skimming its percentage off the top. I'm sure they make a higher yield through their QFF program than with that costly, and painful thing called an airline.

On another note, consider the following scenario:
1) Appply for upgrade
2) Upgrade doesn't get granted
3) You check in thinking those points have not been withdrawn from your QFF account
4) You get buzzed at the gate.

At whch point do the points get deducted, returned then deducted again? Somewhere in the middle is the possibility of those points being "spent" on other things. Anyone go award shopping while in the lounge?

So historically three things happened:

- Between 5 and 18 hours before the flight the upgrade gets confirmed and points get deducted
- under 5 hours before the flight the upgrade was confirmed as declined
- nothing happened and the upgrade wasn't granted

So working off the above there is a five hour window between when you believe/know/assume that the upgrade hadn't been granted and when you get to the gate - do many people really then burn those points on shopping or awards? If shopping I assume the "computer" would not despatch the items as there would be no points to pay for them.
 
So historically three things happened:

- Between 5 and 18 hours before the flight the upgrade gets confirmed and points get deducted
- under 5 hours before the flight the upgrade was confirmed as declined
- nothing happened and the upgrade wasn't granted

So working off the above there is a five hour window between when you believe/know/assume that the upgrade hadn't been granted and when you get to the gate - do many people really then burn those points on shopping or awards? If shopping I assume the "computer" would not despatch the items as there would be no points to pay for them.

Thats the scenario. I guess I wouldn't be comfortable with the rejection and refund of the points, and then points mysteriously being taken away without any action on my part. But to counter, I wouldn't exactly be happy with the points being withdrawn and the comment "You've been rejected but you might get a Gaterade" as the reason either.
 
Thats the scenario. I guess I wouldn't be comfortable with the rejection and refund of the points, and then points mysteriously being taken away without any action on my part. But to counter, I wouldn't exactly be happy with the points being withdrawn and the comment "You've been rejected but you might get a Gaterade" as the reason either.

But points are only deducted when upgrades are confirmed. So there is no refund of points.
 
But points are only deducted when upgrades are confirmed. So there is no refund of points.

Hmm my post got lost, I guess the system would have to be smart enough to know

a) Who asked for an upgrade but had already been rejected
b) what the priority is for all possible candidates from a)
c) of b) who still has enough points in their account as they board

Which goes back to my earlier post, it must be almost the same method they use at the QC for ODU's..
 
To my way of thinking it would have to be a Op-Up as opposed to a points upgrade, what happens if you don't have the points in your account?
 
I was only just discussing tis with my wife the other night.

From a business perspective, it would make sound business sense for PAX on any class fare be allowed an upgrade. Albeit at the last minute. Provided they have the correct priority system in place.

So, lets say, those who request a points upgrade in advance (when booking) get their upgrades processed first, on the basis of FF status.
Then, PAX are offered an "at-the-gate" upgrade (using points), again on a priority system, which would be a combination of fare buckets and FF status.
Complimentary op-ups would be done last (if at all) as they are at no extra cost to the PAX.

Even if a passenger is on the bargain basement cheapie fare, it makes sense to be able to suck a whole lot of points off the PAX (and Qantas' balance sheet) for the sake of moving the PAX to a different cabin, which would be sitting there empty anyway.

Some may not want the upgrade (as silly as that may sound) as they may not want to forgoe the specially chosen leg room seat for the middle of a business or PE cabin.

I would imagine that an "at-the-gate" (paid) op up would have to be cheaper (in points) that one requested much earlier.
 
It'll be interesting to see how this works in practice

"Welcome aboard Mr N" *BEEP* "Oh, it says you got rejected, well its your lucky day, would you like to be upgraded?"
"uhmm ok sure, yeh why not, i can handle rejection rather well today"

"Welcome aboard Mrs N+1" *BEEP* "Oh, it says you got rejected, well its your lucky day, would you like to be upgraded?"
"uhmm no thanks i've decied to use the points on something else"
"oh well uhmm, hang on a second, let me just update the system, call my manager, confer with yield management, and inform the ops centre you've declined"
"ok, can i get on board now?"

"Welcome aboard Mr N+2" *BEEP* "Oh, it says Mrs N+1 declined an upgrade, and luckily you're even lower in the pecking order, so would you like to upgrade?"
"oh ok yeah sure"
"ok give me a few minutes while I consult with yield management, would you mind just moving out of the line for a short moment"..
 
I don't know when I last saw a non-full J cabin domestically.

TNS-BNE about three weeks ago: 2 pax/12 J seats on a 737.

I agree though that otherwise I seem to be flying in either full or nearly full J cabins lately.
 
What would happen with catering?

I've on one or two occasion managed a points upgrade and been told that catering is not assured (even had it on the boarding pass). So does this new enhancement guarantee catering?

Last couple I've had have not had the catering comment. They appear to have increased catering to cover for this.
 
To my way of thinking it would have to be a Op-Up as opposed to a points upgrade, what happens if you don't have the points in your account?

Then you don't get the upgrade! The system will reject you if it can't deduct the points.
 
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