QF vrs VA - Short Haul Domestic Business

[Deleted member 29185]

I just did a search and there seems to be numerous QF vrs VA theads, but none for the short haul domestic business product so here it is (mods please move if I've missed another)

I've been flying almost entirely business now for some time but have only just managed to compare all of the seats (row 1 in QF for the first time yesterday). My preferences are:

QF:

1. Seems to be a shorter seat pitch;
2. Recline of the seat in front cramps row 2 and 3;
3. Row 1 has reasonable leg room;
4. Seats are more comfortable than VA but the centre armrest is narrower and often the toys don't work (lumber support, footrest);
5. Meals not as well presented as VA but possibly more substantial;
6. QF J cabin is a "free for all", with the J loo used by economy all the time meaning a congregation of the loo waitlist around row 1;
7. QF do not protect the J cabin on disembarkation;
8. Staff are good, except for allowing Y into the J cabin; and
9. QF J is mostly chocker block full with upgrades.

VA:

1. Seat pitch seems greater than QF;
2. Recline of the seat in front does not overly impact row 2;
3. Row 1 legroom is not bad, but the under seat space in row 2 is preferable;
4. Seats aren't bad (no leg rest is a bit of a fail) but the centre arm rest is wide and comfortable;
5. Slide out tray is convenient for a drink;
6. Meals are presented better than QF, but are often more show than substance;
7. VA do protect the J cabin far better than QF, meaning a better experience;
8. VA do stop the Y avalanche on disembarkation, to allow J pax to get luggage from the overheads without a scrum packing down;
9. Crew of late have been good and professional; and
10. VA J cabin is less likely to be full, which is nice having a shadow, even in J.

Overall, I'd rate them very close to each other with VA possibly being the better J experience. QF really have let themselves down by allowing the J cabin to turn into a toilet waiting room (yesterday, I had a guy doing his leg stretching across row 1 whist waiting for the loo. On a CNS-BNE trip of 2.5 hours, this (youngish ... late 20's I'd think) man needed to visit the toilet 3 times, once before we even took off). On the other hand, QF have a far better breakfast selection in the lounge, which combined with DT-CNS now tightening up on breakfast, edges QF in front a bit. If QF started protecting the J cabin again, they'd probably win as the overall J experience. Otherwise, I'm happy flying either. QF I think row 1 is the pick, with VA row 2 is better (IMHO).

 

[kermatu]

Pretty much spot on in my view too. I've done far more QF J than VA, but my last three 2+ hour flights have been VA -- in large part because the J cabin is better 'protected', as you say.

 

[Pleb Status]

A reasonable assessment swanning_it of the current situation for short haul dom J in the 737.

Interesting to note your comments about the difference in seat comfort. I will have 5+ hours to 'assess' the comfort on the VA 737 J seat later in the month....

 

[dec540]

Great comparison - I'd probably also factor in the lounge side of things. Depending on the airport of origin, the domestic J lounge for QF can be far better than the standard VA lounge.

 

[serfty]

Seems like a reasonable and level headed review.

You did not mention priority boarding, which VA wins hands down. (Although if you are not normally at the gate when boarding commences its not such an issue.)

Maybe VA seats don't recline as much as those in QF - I don't know as I am normally a row 1 denizen.

 

[TonyHancock]

I have a definite preference for VA's short haul J. I do think the food is marginally better, but the main drivers for me are Priority Boarding and the general protection of the J space. (If I have one complaint it is the failure to protect the hangers at the back of the J cabin.)

 

[Deleted member 29185]

Seems like a reasonable and level headed review.

You did not mention priority boarding, which VA wins hands down. (Although if you are not normally at the gate when boarding commences its not such an issue.)

Maybe VA seats don't recline as much as those in QF - I don't know as I am normally a row 1 denizen.

Very true. Boarding QF yesterday, I actually snuck under the barrier back to the normal side as there were at least two times more in the priority line. I also think the recline is greater in QF which I think is why it seems the pitch seems less with QF.

 

[ftm]

I've been doing a bit to Tasmania lately and VA J is streets ahead of the QFLink 717 J experience. The QFLink crew don't know their menu, no idea of the wines, food very ordinary and they don't have the polish of the QF mainline crew.

 

[Jet L]

Only flown VA J domestic, Having staff block Y from disembarking until J is done is nice. Ill have to try QF later this year...

 

[kermatu]

I've been doing a bit to Tasmania lately and VA J is streets ahead of the QFLink 717 J experience. The QFLink crew don't know their menu, no idea of the wines, food very ordinary and they don't have the polish of the QF mainline crew.

Agree.

I think part of the QF Link problem is the lack of dedicated J attendants or CSMs. At least in my observation (don't actually know company policy). I once had the same 3 cabin crew on 4 flights in a one-week period (CBR-BNE) and each of the 3 had a go looking after the J cabin. Probably a good way to learn but sure led to some variable service. Woefully slow and a bit amateurish.

 

[dk4]

If I may add...

(QF) Meals not as well presented as VA but possibly more substantial...

The meal flavours on VA are better too (even though slightly smaller), IMO overall, Mangan consistently beats Perry in the air - hands down.
PLUS, VA has 2 more menus if you don't have enough to eat -Pantry and anything you like from the Y "buy on board menu" for free! (Tip: IMO Mangan's vego options are always a delight and never a second best alternative, I am not a vegetarian, but will often order them.)

QF J is mostly chocker block full with upgrades.

The VA CS serves a maximum of 8 J guests (i.e. 2 rows of 4) whereas the QF CSM has a maximum of 12 customers (i.e. 3 rows of 4), or in other words Qantas has to deal with 50% more business passengers than Virgin (on a full flight), and I find this consistently shows in service attentiveness and timing.

...often the (QF) toys don't work (lumber support, footrest)

Millennium seats are on the way out (even though some were refurbished) - these are the only ones that offer lumbar support, plus they have the better (IMO) flat foot rest, personally I don't like the new QF foot rest (also noting the newer QF seats have personal inflight video for those who like that).

On the ground in the lounges, Qantas wins - simple. (Whether it is the standard Qantas Club offer or the Business Lounges, with their couple of extra hero items/offers, both beat Virgin Lounges. Noting Virgin has been emailing out quite a few surveys in regards to this, so the sentiment is probably widely held and acknowledged.)

 

[dk4]

I've been doing a bit to Tasmania lately and VA J is streets ahead of the QFLink 717 J experience. The QFLink crew don't know their menu, no idea of the wines, food very ordinary and they don't have the polish of the QF mainline crew.

Agreed, it is obvious that VA use the same cabin crew (cross trained to E190s) as on their B737s, AND 1A on a jungle jet is IMO one of the best domestic experiences out there (other than the occasional head bang on the low hanging locker above).

 

[henleybeach]

Agree with you swanning_it . It's a close call but I think VA just wins in the air . Lounges - qantas hands down.

 

[Melburnian1]

In terms of useful information - facts - this would have to be one of the best AFF threads ever, in a league with moa999's QF A330's refurbishment tables and constant updates.

The OP's comparison was a great way to present data, and had a lot of objectivity to it. Perhaps some of the newspaper travel section reviewers (mostly on freebies) could learn from the OP.

I am not generally a domestic J flyer (though have been in the past) but that's irrelevant: the information is extremely useful for those who are.

Like others I have never seen the VA J section full on short haul east coast trips but if part of the reason QF's is fuller is merely through upgrading passengers then the relative position of VA in the marketplace may not be so dire as I would have thought. I do wonder however sometimes at the economics of having eight or 12 poorly used seats that go begging a lot of the time when each occupies more space than a Y seat. For reasons of competition, carrying politicians, senior businessmen, highly (over?) paid sportsmen and so on, I couldn't see either QF or VA ditching B737 or B717 business class though.

 

[JohnPhelan]

QF does routinely announce that the front toilet on the 737s is for J pax only; but I take your point that the staff often don't police it. I agree with your comment about the lack of staff to block the passage at disembarkation; this used to be done (and is still done on international) but seems not so any more on domestic.

I disagree about the quantity of pax on upgrades - not sure why this should be a negative anyway, but I find the number tends to vary significantly depending on the time of day - it is much easier to get an upgrade on a 2000 flight than it is on a flight during peak times. What I do notice at times is the number of staff paxing in J. This has never worried me, but I know some here seem to get upset about it.

I would add one more category - IFE. QF is far superior to VA, especially on those QF aircraft with the IFE.

As always, people have differing opinions on what matters; I, for example, couldn't care less about footrests on domestic flights.

 

[Deleted member 29185]

QF does routinely announce that the front toilet on the 737s is for J pax only; but I take your point that the staff often don't police it. I agree with your comment about the lack of staff to block the passage at disembarkation; this used to be done (and is still done on international) but seems not so any more on domestic.

I disagree about the quantity of pax on upgrades - not sure why this should be a negative anyway, but I find the number tends to vary significantly depending on the time of day - it is much easier to get an upgrade on a 2000 flight than it is on a flight during peak times. What I do notice at times is the number of staff paxing in J. This has never worried me, but I know some here seem to get upset about it.

I would add one more category - IFE. QF is far superior to VA, especially on those QF aircraft with the IFE.

As always, people have differing opinions on what matters; I, for example, couldn't care less about footrests on domestic flights.

Ife was one I thought of adding, but ife is not my bag so I couldn't really comment, but I do know that VA offer a Galaxy tab whereas QF has not (to the best of my recollection).

 

[Mattg]

Having done both recently, I would have to agree with pretty much everything that has been said.

QF J used to be a clear favourite for me, but I was reasonably impressed with my most recent VA 737 J experience. There was only one other J passenger so the service was attentive, the food was very good and the pantry menu was proactively offered after the main meal. By comparison, QF had 12/12 in J so obviously each passenger received much less personal attention.

There were a few things though, IMHO, that QF did much better. On the Virgin flight, the FA had no idea what wines were on offer other than "red or white". On QF, the flight attendant was able to describe the type of wine, region it was from and the flavours without even being prompted! The other thing I've found is that VA's 737 J seats are rather firm, and become noticeably uncomfortable after around 3 hours. I've not noticed this with QF.

I think the fact that VA comes out (just) in front is a great sign of VA's improvements lately. Around this time last year, VA's J had become renowned on here for poor service and even worse catering. I've noticed - and it seems others have too - a significantly improvement on both counts lately, and it's great to see!

 

[Cool Cat Phil]

Having personally never travelled on VA J, I can't comment on The VA product both in the air and on the ground, but surely the lounge experience is also an important consideration of purchasing a J Fare.

So how does VA's lounge experience compare?

 

[moa999]

Interesting to read some of the opinions here.
I've never noticed a massive difference in leg room, and generally found service and wine to be better on QF unless a full set of 12.

Haven't flown VA J and thought catering had slipped on the 737, but remained good on the 330.

Certainly not many recent reviews on 737s on the Virgin Australia Business Class Catering thread
http://www.australianfrequentflyer....-australia-business-class-catering-38257.html

 

[Deleted member 29185]

Funny thing is, I've never noticed truly great service on either. Acceptable service, yes. I've never been offered this pantry menu on VA. I've never had an in depth conversation on wines. I did however enjoy a guava juice on QF, but VA canned their mocktail many, many months ago.