QF vrs VA - Short Haul Domestic Business

[DaveB]

For those with no status, VA wins hands down even though I have far more points with QF these days. Only able to select Row 3 and then have to remember a week out to possibly score Row 2 if your lucky.
Then guaranteed to end up with no decent meal options left with staff also spending far too long serving and gasbagging with Row 1 to the point where we just got in coffee on a SYD-ADL flight. QF J never again if VA J short haul available.

 

[kermatu]

Agree the QF J service is generally too slow. Given it is only the CSM serving the J pax I've always though the trolley just wastes time, with the CSM making regular trips to the galley anyway. I'd advocate for its removal but it at least serves one function - it's the only thing that stops Y pax from entering the J cabin.

I will admit to not being a fan of staff travelling in J. It clearly diminishes the amenity of the others who are. The time and attentiveness of the CSM the most obvious - even if they are skipped in terms of meal selection there's usually just as much if not more time taken serving such staff (tray/bread/drink on the way down, then service of the meal on the way back - double handling that takes more time). More minor peeves of mine are the loss of an empty adjacent seat or the annoyance whenever in Y and I see staff travelling in J and I haven't been upgraded - but still contributes to the view that QF don't want to protect J as a valuable product.

I haven't flown VA J enough to know if this is a problem for them but doesn't seem to be.

That said, I think QF J pax are often as much to blame for slow service - the number of times you see Row 1 pax engaging in long conversations when the CSM clearly wants to move on. Must be tough for a CSM who won't want to appear rude.

 

[Melburnian1]

...I will admit to not being a fan of staff travelling in J. It clearly diminishes the amenity of the others who are. The time and attentiveness of the CSM the most obvious - even if they are skipped in terms of meal selection there's usually just as much if not more time taken serving such staff (tray/bread/drink on the way down, then service of the meal on the way back - double handling that takes more time). More minor peeves of mine are the loss of an empty adjacent seat or the annoyance whenever in Y and I see staff travelling in J and I haven't been upgraded - but still contributes to the view that QF don't want to protect J as a valuable product.

I haven't flown VA J enough to know if this is a problem for them but doesn't seem to be....

kermatu, you are being rational. Completely understandable.

QF must surely be one of the worst offenders for this worldwide. Why can't paxing cabin crew staff (at least) travel in Y? It's good enough for 90 per cent plus of passengers. Is it part of an EBA or other agreement with unionised staff?

Recently I observed a TT pilot in Y (because that was all on offer.) He did not complain.

 

[Jet L]

Have a friend who's sister works as a FA for Qantas Link.. SYD-BNE for him would be $27 in Y and $91 in J on standby so he pays for J all the time and if J is full he is in Y then he build travel credit with QF they owe him $64 because he flew in Y not J. Then he gets it refunded every three months or so. I really wish I had direct family working for QF or VA staff prices in J are cheaper than normal Y prices...

 

[Melburnian1]

...that VA comes out (just) in front is a great sign of VA's improvements lately. Around this time last year, VA's J had become renowned on here for poor service and even worse catering. I've noticed - and it seems others have too - a significantly improvement on both counts lately, and it's great to see!

Mattg, this may require a subjective answer, but if this is true, has the 'improvement' lead to any noticeable increase in the percentage of J seats occupied on VA?

Reading the occasional previous VA contribution (not all from 2016 or 2017), there is a bit of a theme that AFF members observe B738 flights on VA with one or two seats in J occupied - which even at stratospheric business class fares would be unprofitable. I've never observed a VA J B738 cabin to be full, or more than about half full, but I don't typically travel on say a Monday morning at 0630 from SYD to MEL.

And do you perceive yields have risen for VA in the J seats or not at all? In other words, does this airline have the 'market power' to be able to raise fares somewhat, perhaps in excess of CPI?

I suspect one of VA's problems is the huge number of 'corporates' wedded to QF, and staff obsessed with earning QF SCs and points (even if some suggest that QF points can at times depending on the route be extremely difficult to redeem, especially in J.)

 

[Jet L]

Last I was in J with VA there was only one seat empty 2D that was BNE-HBA

 

[kamchatsky]

After reading this thread I decided up upgrade VA436 SYD-ADL a couple of day ago to J using points. It is also partly to celebrate the Explorer Gold offer from VA. I should get my 80SCs this weekend.

I was the only J passenger on flight, in fact talking with the FA, she said that the flight was only 70 passengers. However, they still seal off J cabin from Y, so I have the toilet all to myself, even though I never used it.

The chicken curry was actually quite nice and nicely presented. I had a good chat with the FAs and they are very friendly.

I flew QF708 ADL-CBR tonight in Y. I saw the J cabin and it was packed, and seat pitch is definitely narrower than VA J.

I have to say that even though I paid 17500 VA points for it, and I already have access to the lounge before the upgrade, I quite enjoyed VA J ....

 

[Mattg]

Mattg, this may require a subjective answer, but if this is true, has the 'improvement' lead to any noticeable increase in the percentage of J seats occupied on VA?

Certainly J has been pretty empty on my last few VA 737 flights. My last VA flight was MEL-CBR on Sunday... parliament resumed sitting the following day so one might have expected J to be full, but only 3/8 seats occupied. This is pretty consistent with what I've seen on other flights. I would also doubt that VA are getting the J yields that QF are.

 

[Pleb Status]

It is very rare to see any empty 737 J seats PER-BNE IME.

 

[Deleted member 29185]

Mattg, this may require a subjective answer, but if this is true, has the 'improvement' lead to any noticeable increase in the percentage of J seats occupied on VA?

And do you perceive yields have risen for VA in the J seats or not at all? In other words, does this airline have the 'market power' to be able to raise fares somewhat, perhaps in excess of CPI?

I'm certainly one of those that noticed the slide in VA J of a year or so ago and I'm also one that has noticed the improvement of late. I really hope VA did listen to feedback (on this site and others and also direct feedback). VA J is rarely full, but having said that, I personally cannot remember a flight where less than half have been occupied. Keep in mind that both VA and QF have fairly recently run sales and promos which may be also altering perceptions a bit. QF is usually chocker block full but my last flight, I was the only one in row1 and only about 1/2 the cabin was occupied ... but that, IMHO, is the exception rather than the rule with QF. T think every other J flight I've taken on QF, the cabin has been completely full.

VA also boosted J fares last year by about 10% and QF just recently boosted J fares by about 4% (based on my most common route), which in both cases was slipped in under the radar, but they must reckon they can get away with it.

 

[Deleted member 29185]

It is very rare to see any empty 737 J seats PER-BNE IME.

Which airline? VA, QF or both?

 

[opusman]

Having staff block the aisle on deplaning would be pointless, the passengers do that anyway. I've never seen anyone from Y able to push through J to get off first.

 

[Deleted member 29185]

Having staff block the aisle on deplaning would be pointless, the passengers do that anyway. I've never seen anyone from Y able to push through J to get off first.

I'll disagree with you on that one! QF J regularly becomes a scrum with row 4 and 5 pax regularly thinking they should be allowed in J as they're most likely higher status flyers, so you're right, the pax do that ... just not only J pax. J window pax have to deal with that to get out. VA on the other hand is a delight to deplane. The crew stand at the J/Y bulkhead and allow J pax to comfortably get up at their leisure (obviously before the aircraft door is opened) and retrieve their carry on from the overheads. It's actually a big + for VA in my book.

 

[Deleted member 29185]

On a side note, QF has been sending me emails saying that a flight had changed. The flight they wanted to send me to did not suit very well, so I went on line to check what other timings might be available. Funnily enough, my original flight was still showing for sale and not cancelled (as I thought would have been the case). I rang them and the guy checked and he too could see my original flight and he then said he'd move me back to the original. I replied that I should still be on the original as I had not agreed to the change, but that was by and by and he moved me back to what I was originally booked on. How very odd, with the upshot being I lost my originally selected seat choice, but everything else remained as was.

 

[Jet L]

On a side note, QF has been sending me emails saying that a flight had changed. The flight they wanted to send me to did not suit very well, so I went on line to check what other timings might be available. Funnily enough, my original flight was still showing for sale and not cancelled (as I thought would have been the case). I rang them and the guy checked and he too could see my original flight and he then said he'd move me back to the original. I replied that I should still be on the original as I had not agreed to the change, but that was by and by and he moved me back to what I was originally booked on. How very odd, with the upshot being I lost my originally selected seat choice, but everything else remained as was.

Maybe a CL wanted your seat so they moved your flight altogether

 

[Deleted member 29185]

maybe a cl wanted your seat so they moved your flight altogether

3f ??????????

 

[Jet L]

Ok well very unlikely but who knows?

 

[serfty]

Let's just say there are CL, CL WP & CL WP1. Possibly CL ∞ ...

Seat change, yes, plane change, no.

It's more likely there was a short term juggle with flight cancelation/change/reinstatement.

 

[Pleb Status]

Which airline? VA, QF or both?

Both. Afternoon and evening flights are always full up front.

 

[kamchatsky]

I'll disagree with you on that one! QF J regularly becomes a scrum with row 4 and 5 pax regularly thinking they should be allowed in J as they're most likely higher status flyers, so you're right, the pax do that ... just not only J pax. J window pax have to deal with that to get out. VA on the other hand is a delight to deplane. The crew stand at the J/Y bulkhead and allow J pax to comfortably get up at their leisure (obviously before the aircraft door is opened) and retrieve their carry on from the overheads. It's actually a big + for VA in my book.

My VA J flight on Tuesday, the FA even took time to bring my jacket back so I have plenty of time to take luggage and wear my jacket before deplaning, whilst FA still sealing off Y passengers from deplaning. It is little things that counts.

I even mentioned to FA about little things they did making a difference in J experience, when we had a chat .....