QF11 17APR12 now 744!

[JohnPhelan]

For a while, source being the airlines themselves:

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Would I be right in suggesting that these figures do not include QantasLink flights?

 

[ajw373]

Would I be right in suggesting that these figures do not include QantasLink flights?

There is certainly something odd with them, as Qantas still claims a 65% group market share of the domestic market, with the remain 35% split between Virgin and Tiger. So lets say Tiger has a 5% share that leaves Virgin with 30%. As the Qantas figure is a group figure including Jetstar that must mean for Virgin to out perform Qantas, Qantas must have below 30% of the 65% leaving Jetstar with over 35% of the market, which clearly isn't the case. So as I said something is very wrong with the figures above if Virgin is somehow outselling Qantas.

Also I would hazzard a guess if Virgin was truly outselling Qantas domesticly it would be the basis of some serious advertising, and I would also gather Qantas would be looking at shrinking their substaintial domestic fleet.

As I said I would love to see the source, ie the actual pages, not just selctive .jpg's which have no context.

 

[markis10]

Would I be right in suggesting that these figures do not include QantasLink flights?

Qantas domestic excludes QF link and Jetstar. Given that DJ are yet to get most of their ATRs, it's probably a fair comparison and somewhat surprising, they are doing well on long haul as the RPKs show but short haul is where DJ are making up the numbers, and an area that has shed traffic to JQ.

 

[markis10]

As I said I would love to see the source, ie the actual pages, not just selective .jpg's which have no context.

As I said the source of the data is the airlines, it's not selective in that it's a like for like snapshot of their domestic quoted traffic data from their ASX published data, and it's the latest data being two days old, just check the announcements section for each airline on a monthly basis.

I dislike the way QF are happy to group their airlines together when it's good news, but separate them when it's bad news in terms of results or when it's a customer issue ( such as the quoted International traffic % of Australians going overseas that's carried by QF by AJ versus the real % when the orange cancer figures are added).

Given DJ domestic were ahead of QF domestic this time last year before the addition of regional traffic when they had no ATRs, and there was no industrial issues that were affecting QF traffic, then throw in the fact DJ fleet will still be expanding at the rate of 1 to 2 new 737s a month while QF get their last aircraft this weekend for domestic expansion, it should be interesting to see how the results pan out over the next 12 months. Add the possibility of the ATR fleet going to 35 with the help of some Kingfisher planes that need a new home (from a financial perspective the ATRs leave the Q400s for dead on most 500nm regional runs for gross profit), then the potential for upside on those figures is quite good over the coming years.

 

[oz_mark]

As I said I would love to see the source, ie the actual pages, not just selctive .jpg's which have no context.

The two airlines publish their operating statistics on the ASX on a monthly basis, so it is publically available information.

If you do add the Qantaslink data, it does exceed the passenger numbers on Virgin.

 

[markis10]

The two airlines publish their operating statistics on the ASX on a monthly basis, so it is publically available information.

If you do add the Qantaslink data, it does exceed the passenger numbers on Virgin.

And in the context of my statement that DJ Domestic already exceed the pax of QF domestic, those figures are very much in context, in fact they could not be any clearer. It's a different story when it's the Qantas "group" of course.

 

[jakeseven7]

I booked a holiday well in advance flying J SYD-LAX, hoping to once again enjoy the comfort and superiority of the Qantas A380 product, only to find today my flight has been changed to a clapped-out old 744!

This may be a maintenance event as it's a 744 over and back on that day.

This would not be such a problem but considering the vast disparity between 744 and 388 products, plus the overall comfort of the 388 compared to the 744, I'm really disappointed. Even if the 744 has the 'refreshed' interior, my points upgrade request to F is probably a complete waste of points and I'm considering cancelling it... I thought these swap-outs were a thing of the past considering how many 388s that are now in operation.

Thoughts or inside info on this anyone?

It's bad enough now the LAX-JFK sector is operated by the ex-AKL 332! :shock:

- A very disappointed traveller for my twice-yearly business/first class long haul holiday jaunt :evil:

A couple of years back I had a similarish operational change and QF were understanding actually and changed my flight... You never know you might get lucky!

And in the context of my statement that DJ Domestic already exceed the pax of QF domestic, those figures are very much in context, in fact they could not be any clearer. It's a different story when it's the Qantas "group" of course.

There are statistics, damned lies, statistics then Markis10's one eyed virgin slant on statistics, then more statistics. Who really cares.

 

[straitman]

There are statistics, damned lies, statistics then Markis10's one eyed virgin slant on statistics, then more statistics. Who really cares.

You obviously do as you commented.

To make the comment though you really don't know markis10 as he is certainly not a fanboi of either QF or DJ but simply likes to point out the good (and bad) when appropriate.

 

[oz_mark]

And in the context of my statement that DJ Domestic already exceed the pax of QF domestic, those figures are very much in context, in fact they could not be any clearer. It's a different story when it's the Qantas "group" of course.

I guess it depends on whether you believe QFLink is part of Qantas Domestic or not. Certainly it is not Qantas mainline, but it does seem to me that if you want to look at the domestic figures you need to count evertyhing that is running around in Qantas colours versus everything running around in Virgin colours (being red and white in both cases :shock

 

[notzac]

There are statistics, damned lies, statistics then Markis10's one eyed virgin slant on statistics, then more statistics. Who really cares.

For an outburst like that, clearly you care..

Does DJ include short haul international operations and regional services operated by Skywest and Alliance in their figures? I assume there is a way of finding out, but I'm not sure.

And what does QF include / not include in their figures?

 

[markis10]

For an outburst like that, clearly you care..

Does DJ include short haul international operations and regional services operated by Skywest and Alliance in their figures? I assume there is a way of finding out, but I'm not sure.

And what does QF include / not include in their figures?

They are including the 4 ATRs in the Jan figures but obviously it's pure mainline for the prior years figures which still exceed those of QF domestic, as I have already said moving forward the regionals will pose considerable upside moving forward, for both QF, it's British 717 operator and DJ.

 

[pauly7]

I guess it depends on whether you believe QFLink is part of Qantas Domestic or not. Certainly it is not Qantas mainline, but it does seem to me that if you want to look at the domestic figures you need to count evertyhing that is running around in Qantas colours versus everything running around in Virgin colours (being red and white in both cases :shock

I agree and I don't know why certain people keep splitting them up.... Well I kinda do but will probably be set upon for suggesting the reason

 

[serfty]

One can use all sorts of statistics to suit a point one is trying to illustrate.

e.g. From those published figures it can be seen the average Qantas PAX travelled ~400 km per segment further than those flying Virgin Australia (~1550 compared to ~1150).

 

[markis10]

One can use all sorts of statistics to suite a point one is trying to illustrate.

e.g. From those published figures it can be seen the average Qantas PAX travelled ~400 km per segment further than those flying Virgin Australia (~1550 compared to ~1150).

Clearly the capacity in play on the trans continental and DRW routes, will be interesting to see if it changes over the year, I'd be tempted to sell my QF shares and invest in VAH going on the trends, but sheep rarely profit on the stock market. I wonder when the substitutions and ferry flights will settle down, this year also seems to be trending up on cancellations which won't be helping.

 

[ajw373]

As I said the source of the data is the airlines, it's not selective in that it's a like for like snapshot of their domestic quoted traffic data from their ASX published data, and it's the latest data being two days old, just check the announcements section for each airline on a monthly basis.

I dislike the way QF are happy to group their airlines together when it's good news, but separate them when it's bad news in terms of results or when it's a customer issue ( such as the quoted International traffic % of Australians going overseas that's carried by QF by AJ versus the real % when the orange cancer figures are added).

Given DJ domestic were ahead of QF domestic this time last year before the addition of regional traffic when they had no ATRs, and there was no industrial issues that were affecting QF traffic, then throw in the fact DJ fleet will still be expanding at the rate of 1 to 2 new 737s a month while QF get their last aircraft this weekend for domestic expansion, it should be interesting to see how the results pan out over the next 12 months. Add the possibility of the ATR fleet going to 35 with the help of some Kingfisher planes that need a new home (from a financial perspective the ATRs leave the Q400s for dead on most 500nm regional runs for gross profit), then the potential for upside on those figures is quite good over the coming years.

I didn't say it was selective, I said the figures had no context (as presented). As it turns out those figures do not include Qantas link, which would have been good to know. So if quoting provide a link rather than just a cut and paste of a diagram which has no context to it.

As to weather the Qantas link figures should be included, the answer is clearly yes. These are flights that are marketed and sold as Qantas so should be included. Same goes for Virgin. Flights sold as Virgin but operated by Skywest etc should be included. Though clearly flights operated by Skywest and sold as Skywest should not. Jetstar on the other hand is seperate so should not be included.

 

[Boyfromthebeach]

Just saying as I think I was on it QF11 at end of october last year was an old manky 747...

 

[haggiscat]

Who could possibly complain about being substituted into one of these elegant winged chariots, the definining passenger jet of the C20th? As another poster said, at least the wings won't fall off. Airbus planes are French junk!

 

[Sprucegoose]

Airbus planes are French junk!

I dont think we won't to go down that path.......they are a global collaboration.

They are different to Boeing and other products and nearly always get us reliably from A to B.

 

[Must...Fly!]

I see Airline Route is today showing LH is subbing a 744 for the A380 on their FRA-SIN route for three weeks in April.

Which, while a downgrade, if you're in F, isn't such a big issue

 

[dfcatch]

Which, while a downgrade, if you're in F, isn't such a big issue

It is if you're in QF 380 F down to 747 F!!