QF2 Passengers Stranded in Dubai

[Pleb Status]

What I will take from this episode is the next time my QFi flight is heavily delayed, I am going to request that QF implement their 'regular policy' of delaying everyone on the next QFi flight, just like they did for the QF CEO on 29 December 2016. This 'regular policy' will obviously not be applied to my flight however, unless the QF CEO happens to be onboard.

The impression of AJ 'cutting and running back to Australia' made a bad story even worse for QF. Although AJ would have just got in the way in DXB, if he had announced that he was not going back to Oz until all of the delayed QF2 passengers had left DXB, that would have improved the situation significantly (for both the delayed QF2 passengers and for QF in the media).

 

[Himeno]

On topic - I think AJ staying in Dubai would have been more beneficial as he would have been personally aware of angst and told his people to "sort it" which might have provided more staff being applied and out of the box solutions being pursued.

How do you think AJ telling the EK staff to "sort it" is going to do anything?

I wouldn't be surprised if there was only 1 QF paid ground staff member, the supervisor, on duty at any given time with EK staff handling everything else. Are you suggesting that maybe they should have called in some cabin crew to assist with ground handling?

The last time I was at LHR, there were 6 QF service staff on duty when I went though. 4 customer service agents, a supervisor and the duty manager. The agents and the supervisor were working check in and once check in closed, those same agents moved to the gate to run the boarding process.

Most airlines have very few customer service staff working at out stations, with in many cases, the only person at a port actually working for the airline in question is a manager. That's the reason ground service companies are a thing.
That's fine when things work to plan. When something goes wrong, the airline doesn't have anyone else there to throw at the problem and the contracted company (either another airline or a company like SATS or Danta) can't throw many people at the problem either as the staff have either gone home or have other work they need to do and distracting them from working their other contracts means some other airline gets delayed.

What do you think would happen if say, JAL had a major problem in SIN, and no one could check in for QF flights because SATS had tossed everyone available at fixing the JAL issue?

 

[RooFlyer]

How do you think AJ telling the EK staff to "sort it" is going to do anything?

I wouldn't be surprised if there was only 1 QF paid ground staff member, the supervisor, on duty at any given time with EK staff handling everything else. Are you suggesting that maybe they should have called in some cabin crew to assist with ground handling?

The last time I was at LHR, there were 6 QF service staff on duty when I went though. 4 customer service agents, a supervisor and the duty manager. The agents and the supervisor were working check in and once check in closed, those same agents moved to the gate to run the boarding process.

Most airlines have very few customer service staff working at out stations, with in many cases, the only person at a port actually working for the airline in question is a manager. That's the reason ground service companies are a thing.
That's fine when things work to plan. When something goes wrong, the airline doesn't have anyone else there to throw at the problem and the contracted company (either another airline or a company like SATS or Danta) can't throw many people at the problem either as the staff have either gone home or have other work they need to do and distracting them from working their other contracts means some other airline gets delayed.

What do you think would happen if say, JAL had a major problem in SIN, and no one could check in for QF flights because SATS had tossed everyone available at fixing the JAL issue?

I suggest the thing you are missing is "contingency planning".

Qantas, JAL nor anyone else needs to have a fully staffed crisis/management centre at every port they fly to. The do need an organisation on the ground who they pay to swing effectively into action when the poo hits the fan.

Its an additional cost , but whether they spend it is their judgement of the balance between customer service and to send pax on their way in the less disruptive way or just "oh, we'll deal with this the best we can; gimme a break."

 

[Quickstatus]

No ground presence at a very significant hub with 2 flagship routes?
No significant ground presence at a very significant hub where perhaps in excess of 1000 of your passengers /customers pass daily especially in peak travel (QF metal + codeshare passengers)
No contingency planned with ground agents/aircraft crews whether own employee or contract causing flight/cabin/ground crew to be stretched to the limits.

Cant possibly be Qantas

 

[yohy?!]

I wouldn't be shocked to see QF exit LHR, they can't be making a dime anymore with all the competition and it will only get worse as LCCs open more routes into Europe from Asia.

 

[nlagalle]

I don't believe that of all the flights to Australia there were no seats whatsoever available. As I mentioned in earlier post get people to Australia, use travel class to work out priority order (and status inside travel class). Why everyone had to be offloaded from the second functional plane mid destination is difficult to understand.

I never said there were no seats. But there wouldn't be 400.

and here's another tip, the media won't be chasing those that's did make it on other flights. That's why you wont read about it

 

[nlagalle]

Well we have heard from numerous different sources that ground agents in DXB (or indeed in operations control in SYD) didn't really explore other options about getting people back to Australia until quite a significant delay. Sure its a busy time of year but I might ask that given that Emirates have about 15 daily services to Australian airports and something like 6 daily services to Singapore and Hong Kong then are you saying that there was not a single seat available on any of those services to move people onwards? And that's not even accounting for the other alternatives of Qatar, Cathay Pacific, Singapore Airlines, Malaysian Airlines, Ethiad, Thai etc etc. Of course eventually some of these more imaginative options were explored but I think the point remains that this was only at the insistence of and because of negative publicity, but your assertion that there weren't any seats available at all on 15 daily A380 and B777 services (plus many more via SIN) to Australia is straining credulity a little.

once again i never said every flight was full - i said there wouldn't be 400+ spare seats. You really think given its the busiest travel time of the year that airlines are going to have a swag of spare seats??? So options would be limited to get people home. Either way people would still be stuck in dxb.. and that what will be reported on..

Its all fine for us to sit here and say hey lets route them to here here and here. But remember the travelling public want to fly direct home and then they'd be complaining they were sent via x y and z to get home.

I think Qantas can count themselves very lucky that the story wasn't much bigger in Australia - and this was only because of limited journalism resources at this time of year, not by any clever (or indeed even competent) action by Qantas operations or public relations teams. The fact that they couldn't even raise a full complement of crew for one of the QF2 services would seem to indicate that QF have some definite communication issues with IIROPS (especially in DXB).

Speaking for someone who worked in media for over 20 years you assertion is totally wrong - the time of year is irrelevant in terms of the resources. In fact its generally quiet on the news front so it will make headlines. the only reason it made bigger than normal headlines was the NYE factor and the holiday season.

 

[OzEire]

Having experienced QF handling a full 744 going tech in SFO a few years back, this all sounds pretty familiar. Ground staff (non-QF) with no clue, no QF comms (I rang the Aus call centre to get an update and instead informed *them* of the issue 2-3 hrs after it had started, they didn't even know it was happening). Clearly if QF even have contingency plans they are not very well understood by those who need to.

 

[Capricornus]

Do a bit of research though and it is understandable that there were delays-
105,362 passengers arrive in Dubai on New Year’s Eve | GulfNews.com

And it does seem QF did do things for some pax even though they say they were told nothing-
Disgruntled Qantas passengers spend New Year's Eve in the sky, dozens more still stranded in Dubai | Stuff.co.nz

Call me a cynic, but I just don't buy the story of a holiday ruined by Qantas for a couple who supposedly "saved up to go to fireworks in Sydney", so they booked a flight that arrives in Sydney at 6am on 31st Dec? To go watch fireworks same night (likely, jet lagged)? Yeah, sure...

 

[boomy]

Call me a cynic, but I just don't buy the story of a holiday ruined by Qantas for a couple who supposedly "saved up to go to fireworks in Sydney", so they booked a flight that arrives in Sydney at 6am on 31st Dec? To go watch fireworks same night (likely, jet lagged)? Yeah, sure...

I will call you a cynic because that's exactly what my parents did when they first visit SYD years ago in order to avoid the exorbitant hotel fees prior to New Years. Not everyone suffer from jet lag and there are solutions for those who do like melatonin etc.

 

[moa999]

Landing at 6am after poor sleep on a plane and expecting to brave crowds and stay up to midnight isn't particularly smart

 

[boomy]

Landing at 6am after poor sleep on a plane and expecting to brave crowds and stay up to midnight isn't particularly smart

There are ways to sleep very well on a plane

 

[MrJetset]

My guess is zero. And I know from personal experience that EK CS staff (if they exist) don't cut it.

The amount of nonsense in this thread is ridiculous.

Of course there are QF staff at DXB. Do you really think with that many A388 pax arriving and departing QF outsources to EK or Dnata?

There are airport managers, First Hosts and other QF staff.

 

[bmam]

I'm pleased for her that the lady who had run out of "blood thinning medication" managed to get home but why would you travel on an o/s trip without enough meds for a potential emergency/delay? Such meds suggest a possible heart condition so would be essential. In that case, the pharmacist will always allow you enough for the length of the trip and more. I have to take certain meds and I always make sure I have more than enough to give me a buffer.

 

[RooFlyer]

The amount of nonsense in this thread is ridiculous.

Of course there are QF staff at DXB. Do you really think with that many A388 pax arriving and departing QF outsources to EK or Dnata?

There are airport managers, First Hosts and other QF staff.

So I wonder where they were the other day?

In their offices, presumably, wondering how they were going to get about 400 pax from a perfectly serviceable aircraft and replace them with 400 more from one that had broken down, all without telling them much?

And yes, it wouldn't surprise me if QF outsources quite a bit to their partner EK at Dubai. Its whether EK fulfils its responsibilities to Qantas adequately that I have doubts about.

I'm pleased for her that the lady who had run out of "blood thinning medication" managed to get home but why would you travel on an o/s trip without enough meds for a potential emergency/delay? Such meds suggest a possible heart condition so would be essential. In that case, the pharmacist will always allow you enough for the length of the trip and more. I have to take certain meds and I always make sure I have more than enough to give me a buffer.

Welcome to AFF . Was there someone with problems with their blood thinning medication?

 

[bmam]

Hi Rooflyer and thanks for the welcome. Yes, it was reported in the Sydney Morning Herald. She is pictured on the relevant webpage for that publication.

A comment in regard to outsourcing staff, I would imagine at most of its overseas airports there are very few "Qantas" staff. Can't say that for sure as I am not AJ but there certainly was no-one in sight in HNL, for example, when I was there in Oct - just several totally disinterested local personnel in QF uniforms who didn't give a rat's.

 

[drron]

Welcome to AFF . Was there someone with problems with their blood thinning medication?

Quoted up page.She was a Kiwi so even less likely to remember her meds than a Tasmanian.:shock:

Disgruntled Qantas passengers spend New Year's Eve in the sky, dozens more still stranded in Dubai | Stuff.co.nz

 

[MrJetset]

Hi Rooflyer and thanks for the welcome. Yes, it was reported in the Sydney Morning Herald. She is pictured on the relevant webpage for that publication.

A comment in regard to outsourcing staff, I would imagine at most of its overseas airports there are very few "Qantas" staff. Can't say that for sure as I am not AJ but there certainly was no-one in sight in HNL, for example, when I was there in Oct - just several totally disinterested local personnel in QF uniforms who didn't give a rat's.

You really cannot compare a station like HNL with DXB.

The former is an outstation, the latter a transfer point. There are many further differences ...

 

[MEL_Traveller]

You really cannot compare a station like HNL with DXB.

The former is an outstation, the latter a transfer point. There are many further differences ...

I think you have to appreciate the sentiment of the comment rather than taking it literally. I think the observation is a fair one... how many are contract or casual staff who simply put on the uniform for a couple hours to do check-in vs those who are employed full time. The latter come with the knowledge and commitment of being a full-time employee. The contractors maybe not so much, it's just another airline for another couple hours.

 

[RooFlyer]

You really cannot compare a station like HNL with DXB.

The former is an outstation, the latter a transfer point. There are many further differences ...

Please tell us the full story on QF and airline operations ... headcount numbers, title, hours, full time/contract, responsibilities etc ... port by port. Then we'll all be in a much better position to judge the recent DXB shemozzle.